So how are your games going lately? [megathread]

[Freighter]

You know, you're right about that. I let you shift my goal posts. Go watch Stage 4. Sigma wasn't out for them. They played Orisa with either Hog or D.Va. And Reaper was still seeing play.

I don't care about OWL. I don't play in OWL, what they can and can't do in OWL does not concern me. I play competitive, not in a tournament league with rules.

[DotEleven]

I don't care about OWL. I don't play in OWL, what they can and can't do in OWL does not concern me. I play competitive, not in a tournament league with rules.

And yet, they are the epitome of the game. If you know better than I then they know better than you. And they play Reaper against Roadhog despite supposedly "countering" him and "opening up tons of other heroes when not using double shield".

[Phon]

Great, but why have 2 shields if you completely counter one of their dps. Reaper comes in and as you put it, shoot hook shoot melee. Unless of course it doesn't counter him. I mean honestly. By this logic Roadhog counters every non-tank in the game which is pure bullshit.

https://gfycat.com/bronzeachingfulmar

Reaper counters roadhog? Ok.

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Great, but why have 2 shields if you completely counter one of their dps. Reaper comes in and as you put it, shoot hook shoot melee. Unless of course it doesn't counter him. I mean honestly. By this logic Roadhog counters every non-tank in the game which is pure bullshit.

https://gfycat.com/bronzeachingfulmar

Reaper counters roadhog? Ok.

[DotEleven]

https://gfycat.com/bronzeachingfulmar

Reaper counters roadhog? Ok.

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https://gfycat.com/bronzeachingfulmar

Reaper counters roadhog? Ok.

Great. Now let's see that happen consistently. If this is all it takes. Why did people still run Reaper against Roadhog in OWL? You're taking one instance of a headshot and saying "yep, it counters him". You can find plenty of those on Roadhog vs any non-tank. Doesn't mean he counters them. Once again, if that were true. We'd still be seeing him play in OWL.

[Advent]

This game just got needlessly difficult with role queue. Feels really unfair the people I have to play with and against. I mean, how long does it take for people to realize that support heroes are exactly who they're going after first and freaking HELP US? I can't fight dps on my own, HALP! >_>

[Kharadin]

You are literally saying that Roadhog counters everyone who's not a tank. If that were true, Roadhog would be broken and would be played.

Except I'm not, did you read what I wrote about effective range? Btw effective range is the range in which a hero is effective in dealing damage. Reaper's is really short, it's inside Hog's hook range.

Anyway I can't be bothered to debate facts, you have your position that you won't budge from. Keep countering Roadhogs with Reaper, lemme know what SR you get to when that stops working and then come back and I can give you tips on how to stop feeding.

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This game just got needlessly difficult with role queue. Feels really unfair the people I have to play with and against. I mean, how long does it take for people to realize that support heroes are exactly who they're going after first and freaking HELP US? I can't fight dps on my own, HALP! >_>

Difficult just because support get targetted by DPS? What supports do you play?

Moira/Lucio are really strong right now and both are pretty good at getting away from most DPS in a brawl and can take many of them in a duel. I'm currently trying to rank up my DPS SR but I have the opposite problem, I target the healers but struggle secure the kill while my team just shoot the tanks and charge support ults.

Comms can help a lot with things like this, but when I'm just spamming soloQ after work I can't be bothered to get invested enough to shotcall but that's on me.

[DotEleven]

Except I'm not, did you read what I wrote about effective range? Btw effective range is the range in which a hero is effective in dealing damage. Reaper's is really short, it's inside Hog's hook range.

Anyway I can't be bothered to debate facts, you have your position that you won't budge from. Keep countering Roadhogs with Reaper, lemme know what SR you get to when that stops working and then come back and I can give you tips on how to stop feeding.

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Difficult just because support get targetted by DPS? What supports do you play?

Moira/Lucio are really strong right now and both are pretty good at getting away from most DPS in a brawl and can take many of them in a duel. I'm currently trying to rank up my DPS SR but I have the opposite problem, I target the healers but struggle secure the kill while my team just shoot the tanks and charge support ults.

Comms can help a lot with things like this, but when I'm just spamming soloQ after work I can't be bothered to get invested enough to shotcall but that's on me.

You don't have any facts. You have your opinion. Pro opinion says otherwise.

[Kharadin]

I PLAY REAPER INTO ROADHOG BECAUSE IT WORKS IN GOLD LOL I'M RIGHT REEEEEEEEEEEEE

Okay buddy.

[DotEleven]

Okay buddy.

Great, and the pro players did it because? We have an entire stage of picking Reaper into Roadhog.

[Kharadin]

Great, and the pro players did it because? We have an entire stage of picking Reaper into Roadhog.

You think me explaining would change anything? Like it has so far? You'll just come up with some other dogshit illogical justification and ree some more.

[DotEleven]

You think me explaining would change anything? Like it has so far? You'll just come up with some other dogshit illogical justification and ree some more.

You're the one's saying that Reaper is only being played against Double Shield and that they can't lose one of those shields to "counter" Reaper with Roadhog because it opens up a bunch of other heros.

Yet, despite this position we see that before Sigma was available, they did just that and Reaper still saw an obscene amount of play.

Gee, I wonder. Maybe it's cause you're wrong!

[Kharadin]

You're the one's saying that Reaper is only being played against Double Shield and that they can't lose one of those shields to "counter" Reaper with Roadhog because it opens up a bunch of other heros.

Yet, despite this position we see that before Sigma was available, they did just that and Reaper still saw an obscene amount of play.

Gee, I wonder. Maybe it's cause you're wrong!

Hmm, I wonder if during this entire stage they had to use particular flank routes and strategies because of the threat posed by Roadhog... Interesting, I wonder what let them to picking Roadhog in the first place?

Next shitpost please.

[Kharadin]

Owl stage 4 started in July and the continued games proceeded with the characters available when they started playing, it doesn't even make sense to disregard this as he does. Us normal players aren't constrained by rules in a league, we could start playing double shield upon release of the patch, unlike the league players.

Honestly I didn't pay attention to the beginning of the stage so I gave him the benefit of the doubt but he continually demonstrates that he's not here to learn/understand/discuss reasonably and just here to scream I'M RIGHT 'til he convinces himself he's not a moron.

[DotEleven]

There wasn't double shield meta before sigma was released. Sigma enabled it. So people picked other tanks.

Well yes, but look who they played. They played Roadhog. Who supposedly "counters" reaper and whos presence "Opens up a bunch of other heroes" according to those two. And yet despite this, despite opening up options and "countering" Reaper, he was still played a crazy amount. Pretty much the only time you didn't see Reaper is when they went Double Sniper. Tell me, if playing Roadhog as they said countered Reaper and opened up so many other options by not having two shields, why didn't it? Why did Reaper still see an obscene amount of play?

Hmm, I wonder if during this entire stage they had to use particular flank routes and strategies because of the threat posed by Roadhog... Interesting, I wonder what let them to picking Roadhog in the first place?

Next shitpost please.

Not really. I guess you didn't watch at all. PS. What let them pick Roadhog was that the only good tank was Orisa so they picked Roadhog to pair with her with the Halt Hook combo, otherwise they wouldn't have.

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Honestly I didn't pay attention to the beginning of the stage so I gave him the benefit of the doubt but he continually demonstrates that he's not here to learn/understand/discuss reasonably and just here to scream I'M RIGHT 'til he convinces himself he's not a moron.

And here you are doing the same thing. The fact is, I'm quite smart. What I lack in is execution.

[DotEleven]

Because of the restrictions put on them. If they hadn't put those restrictions, you would have seen rein Zarya and dva played every game. Blizzard wanted to end goats.

Look at what we're saying here though.

There is no restriction forcing them to play Reaper. If Reaper was so easily countered by Roadhog, why when Roadhog was a staple pick that "opens up other DPS heroes" would they choose to pick Reaper?

This isn't a GOATs vs the current meta. It's why would they pick Reaper vs any of the other DPS against Roadhog if Roadhog allows them to play other DPS while also countering Reaper?

[Kharadin]

I'm quite smart.

Unconvinced.

So you mean in the comps where Hog's hook is preallocated to a particular time, disallowing him to focus the Reaper, while running an Orisa shield to force a devolved brawl, Reaper becomes effective?

Well fuck me if that doesn't agree with literally everything I've said.

If you're smart, use your fucking brain.

[DotEleven]

I pick reaper even when there's nothing to specifically counter with him. Go ask them.

I don't play reaper vs roadhog though, it's not fun. You can't do anything if he pays the slightest attention to you.

Where not talking about playing him when there's nothing to counter him, or rather, they aren't. They're specifically saying that Roadhog counters Reaper. Would YOU pick a hero into the hero it counters if you were given a bunch of other options? The only reason Roadhog was picked despite having Reaper on the other side is that he's the one that works best with Orisa. Despite this you still had times where they would drop Roadhog to get D.Va specifically to try to gobble up Reaper. Of course then D.Va was countered by Mei who would go and freeze her so Reaper would be free to do his thing.

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Unconvinced.

So you mean in the comps where Hog's hook is preallocated to a particular time, disallowing him to focus the Reaper, while running an Orisa shield to force a devolved brawl, Reaper becomes effective?

Well fuck me if that doesn't agree with literally everything I've said.

If you're smart, use your fucking brain.

No, it fucking doesn't. You're a literal idiot if you believe so.

There's a reason why, despite Roadhog being the one who works best with Orisa they swapped him for D.Va at times to stop the Reaper. They purposefully benched your precious "counter" for something to actually stop him. Despite the fact that D.Va herself would then have to work around making sure she wasn't frozen by Mei which would then enable the Reaper.

So, not only do we have him countering someone, but we've got him paired as the best ally for the main tank and he STILL would get benched at times.

[DotEleven]

I don't know why you're even arguing about this. Owl is 6 grouped, very good players that have very good team coordination. Something that us playing normal comp will never have. At most I've queued with 2 others and even then it was difficult to coordinate anything due to the other 3 I didn't queue with.

Because they are the top, they're the ones that know best. We lower people can only hope to emulate them, but the theory is still there, it's putting it into practice that gets wrecked.

Yes, they are better than us, but that doesn't mean that Widow doesn't counter Pharah just because the players are bad.

These people saying "Roadhog counters Reaper" are basically saying that Roadhog counters pretty much any non-tank. Mei, Reaper, Doomfist (LUL), Soldier, Symmetra, Bastion, Ashe, Genji, McCree, Torbjorn, Sombra. All countered by Roadhog because "LUL Shot, Hook, Shot Melee".

[DotEleven]

It's useless to base what counters what on top level players. People at our ratings cannot and will never be able to reliably shoot pharaoh down even with 2 hit scan and zen orb because they can't aim.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't counter her. That player's bad, yes. But Widow still counters Pharah. She's your best choice against it.

There is a difiference between what counters what (which is theory and game mechanics) and actually putting it into practice (execution). Back when I played League, you had counters. Morgana basically countered any CC with one of her abilities. She absolutely destroys a character called Leona who was basically a massive CC bot. Now, just because you have a Morgana who slows to Black Shield doesn't mean Morgana doesn't counter Leona, that players just bad.

This is why we look to the top. They are the players that know what they're doing. They are the players that we know have both the theory and execution down.

I mean, let's bring this another way back to Overwatch. I've personally beaten Winstons as Widow, does that mean that Winston doesn't counter Widow? Hell no.

[Kharadin]

No, it fucking doesn't. You're a literal idiot if you believe so.

There's a reason why, despite Roadhog being the one who works best with Orisa they swapped him for D.Va at times to stop the Reaper. They purposefully benched your precious "counter" for something to actually stop him. Despite the fact that D.Va herself would then have to work around making sure she wasn't frozen by Mei which would then enable the Reaper.

So, not only do we have him countering someone, but we've got him paired as the best ally for the main tank and he STILL would get benched at times.

Except, what you appear to be misunderstanding, because you're fucking dumb, is that Roadhog isn't used to counter Reaper in halt/hook comps. Neither is D.Va, she brings better shieldbreak and soft counter to Reaper as a bonus.

But you're right, y'know, using an example of a comp where no one's trying to counter Reaper as an example of Roadhog not countering Reaper.

Next shitpost.