So how are your games going lately? [megathread]

[Tziva]

On the PTR they are saying new Junkrat is her counter, you det pack up towards her and hurl your second det pack at her. If you put one down and wait for the cooldown you can boost up and chuck 2 at her.

I don't think anyone is saying that Junk is her counter since it is still pretty hard to actually kill her that way. It's mainly that Junkrat is not a complete sitting duck against a Pharah now and finally has some sort of teeth against her.

On live, it's rarely worth playing him if the other team has a Pharah unless you're fighting in a tight space. This will make him still a viable pick since he can realistically be a danger to her now, even though he's still not the ideal option for addressing her.

But maybe I'm wrong.

[DeadmanWalking]

I don't think anyone is saying that Junk is her counter since it is still pretty hard to actually kill her that way. It's mainly that Junkrat is not a complete sitting duck against a Pharah now and finally has some sort of teeth against her.

On live, it's rarely worth playing him if the other team has a Pharah unless you're fighting in a tight space. This will make him still a viable pick since he can realistically be a danger to her now, even though he's still not the ideal option for addressing her.

But maybe I'm wrong.

With 20% faster travel time on her cannon I think Orisa will be a great counter.

[Eapoe]

6 Wins for 1 tonight ^^

Was only going to play a couple of matches, but I just kept winning. Last game was a let down, I'd broken back over 2300 and that put me just under again.

Clearly a message to stop, take a bunch of pills and go sleep.

Wish I had that going for me lately. I'm on a losing streak for 9 of 10 games. Damage dealers that can't kill anything, Lucio's staying in speedboat boost the whole time, Mercy players trying to get PotG's by holding off for a 5 Rez when there's 3 sitting dead on the cap and refusing to Rez to contest the point. Had 1 game with a Mercy who just pocketed Rein, and when she wasn't by healing him she would damge boost him with his shield up while teammates were clustered around her asking for heals in game and voice.
People picking Junkrat (guess the PTR is hyping him up) and DF and refusing to switch when the enemy team has a Pharah or 76. If 1 of the support or tanks swaps, then the people playing Junk or DF complain that we lost because we didn't have 2 of them.
Had a game earlier today where o was asked if I could solo heal. Told the team sure, if they think it will work and watch for them diving me. Entire 1st 2 rounds my team kept running off point on KotH and flanking 2 different sides while I stayed on point with the tank and then listened as people complained they didn't get healed when they kept getting killed at the flanks.
1 game I was frustrated and picked DF on the 1st round of Oasis just to have a team member tell me if I'm going to throw the game then they are going to play Torb so they could "practice." Game literally hadn't started yet and someone pulls that.
Another game we're solo healing and I went Tracer, ended the 1st round with gold elims and damage. DAMAGE as Tracer. Got told me playing Tracer was the problem, so I swap to Lucio, just to have the 2 tanks in the group never make a move to the point.
These are the games I've been getting placed in. I freely admit in some games I get outplayed or have a bad game, but I've even had wins when I've played bad. Lately it's just loss after loss after loss.

- - - Updated - - -

With 20% faster travel time on her cannon I think Orisa will be a great counter.

I don't think she's going to be a great counter, but I do think it will help with Pharah players and not make the team rely solely on 76 or McCree. Will be nice having a tank that can hit her as well, but it will still require some leading the target and learning to predict her movements a bit.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think anyone is saying that Junk is her counter since it is still pretty hard to actually kill her that way. It's mainly that Junkrat is not a complete sitting duck against a Pharah now and finally has some sort of teeth against her.

On live, it's rarely worth playing him if the other team has a Pharah unless you're fighting in a tight space. This will make him still a viable pick since he can realistically be a danger to her now, even though he's still not the ideal option for addressing her.

But maybe I'm wrong.

I agree. Good Rat players will be able to mess with Pharah a lot now. The tire thing seems to be a bit much now. Good idea, but holy shit are people going to do some crazy things with that thing now. Can't wait to see the kill vids where people roof hop the tire across the map and across pits just to blast groups in the face.

[DeadmanWalking]

Wish I had that going for me lately. I'm on a losing streak for 9 of 10 games. Damage dealers that can't kill anything, Lucio's staying in speedboat boost the whole time, Mercy players trying to get PotG's by holding off for a 5 Rez when there's 3 sitting dead on the cap and refusing to Rez to contest the point. Had 1 game with a Mercy who just pocketed Rein, and when she wasn't by healing him she would damge boost him with his shield up while teammates were clustered around her asking for heals in game and voice.
People picking Junkrat (guess the PTR is hyping him up) and DF and refusing to switch when the enemy team has a Pharah or 76. If 1 of the support or tanks swaps, then the people playing Junk or DF complain that we lost because we didn't have 2 of them.
Had a game earlier today where o was asked if I could solo heal. Told the team sure, if they think it will work and watch for them diving me. Entire 1st 2 rounds my team kept running off point on KotH and flanking 2 different sides while I stayed on point with the tank and then listened as people complained they didn't get healed when they kept getting killed at the flanks.
1 game I was frustrated and picked DF on the 1st round of Oasis just to have a team member tell me if I'm going to throw the game then they are going to play Torb so they could "practice." Game literally hadn't started yet and someone pulls that.
Another game we're solo healing and I went Tracer, ended the 1st round with gold elims and damage. DAMAGE as Tracer. Got told me playing Tracer was the problem, so I swap to Lucio, just to have the 2 tanks in the group never make a move to the point.
These are the games I've been getting placed in. I freely admit in some games I get outplayed or have a bad game, but I've even had wins when I've played bad. Lately it's just loss after loss after loss.

- - - Updated - - -



I don't think she's going to be a great counter, but I do think it will help with Pharah players and not make the team rely solely on 76 or McCree. Will be nice having a tank that can hit her as well, but it will still require some leading the target and learning to predict her movements a bit.

- - - Updated - - -



I agree. Good Rat players will be able to mess with Pharah a lot now. The tire thing seems to be a bit much now. Good idea, but holy shit are people going to do some crazy things with that thing now. Can't wait to see the kill vids where people roof hop the tire across the map and across pits just to blast groups in the face.

Nobody should be relying solely on mccree or soldier because if the enemy team kills them then pharah gets to run amok on your entire team while they hoof it back, and if they get killed again before they get back....

[Jessicka]

With 20% faster travel time on her cannon I think Orisa will be a great counter.

Once you can lead with Orisa she can already do a job, I've shot down loads of Pharahs and forces switched with her. She's especially good to complement McCree or 76. This buff will definitely help though, on top of the larger shield too, she should be a go to for it.

@Eapoe it's about damn time. I had two of those long loss streaks that dumped me from 2460 to 1850 in the end. This is barely statistical justice for me.

[Freighter]

I really don't understand how this mmr system is supposed to work. What is it actually measuring? I've met players who are better when I was gold than some of those that I've played with at diamond...

[Eapoe]

Once you can lead with Orisa she can already do a job, I've shot down loads of Pharahs and forces switched with her. She's especially good to complement McCree or 76. This buff will definitely help though, on top of the larger shield too, she should be a go to for it.

@Eapoe it's about damn time. I had two of those long loss streaks that dumped me from 2460 to 1850 in the end. This is barely statistical justice for me.

Yeah, this is my 2nd losing streak this season. Almost down to 2000 from 2500. Only reason I'm not lower probably has to do with the fact I'm getting so frustrated I walk away from the game a lot more than I have over the last month.
I really am beginning to think there's a matchmaking system in place where after you win for a while (on a good streak) the system starts putting you with people that have been on losing streaks themselves, maybe in some weird attempt to equal things out or test your earn rating or maybe to help out the others that have been losing. The reverse also seems to hold true, where it puts you up against others that have been on winning streaks or a slightly higher win:loss ratio.
Can't explain it, but it definitely seems to fit the way the game works where I drop 400-600 mmr at a time, getting grouped with people that refuse to swap when getting countered or act like newer players (can't play multiple characters, no aim, suicide charging with Rein, etc). Then after I drop significantly I end up playing with people that you wonder why they aren't Plat or diamond, play well together, and can almost blatantly spawn camp the opposite team.

- - - Updated - - -

I really don't understand how this mmr system is supposed to work. What is it actually measuring? I've met players who are better when I was gold than some of those that I've played with at diamond...

Parts of it have to do with win:loss ratio, how you play in the game, how you compare to other people that play the character you are playing in a given rank. At least that's what has been speculated on. Then there's also when the broken aspects happen, as with Mercy at the start of the season, where Mercy would gain more than other characters on a win while losing less on losses.

[Jester Joe]

Parts of it have to do with win:loss ratio, how you play in the game, how you compare to other people that play the character you are playing in a given rank. At least that's what has been speculated on. Then there's also when the broken aspects happen, as with Mercy at the start of the season, where Mercy would gain more than other characters on a win while losing less on losses.

If that speculation is right, it would make sense why Mercy would have issues, since she's one of the most picked heroes.

I'm probably gonna end up far lower than in the past though, 7 placements done and only won once. I know W:L isn't the most important, but when most ended up as stomps because my girlfriend and I got stuck with a 3 stack twice who would have a pocket Mercy who wouldn't heal us or rez anyone but their friends, it's not like I had much chance to do well despite losing.

[Eapoe]

Wish they would change when you get the leave penalty. Sucks having to wait until just before the screen completely fades. I get it, my team lost, I don't need to witness the enemy team's victory poses. Would just be nice to be able to leave as soon as the "Victory/Draw/Defeat" announcement pulls up. I play support most games, so unless I'm absolutely sure I have a chance at PotG from a 2-4 boop kill with Lucio, I just want to get out and start the next game.

[DeadmanWalking]

I really don't understand how this mmr system is supposed to work. What is it actually measuring? I've met players who are better when I was gold than some of those that I've played with at diamond...

The mmr system measures your ability on that character against other people on the same character. If you do amazing on say Reaper the game judges you to be a really amazing player and will give you more Ranking points to push you where you will fight people of the same skill level. If you lose you will lose less points. If you are absolute trash on a character it will say you don't belong in that rank and take away a lot more rank points to put you where you belong.

So if you are really good at Reaper you will climb the ranks quickly but lets say you get into a game and someone else picks reaper first and all that is left is the healer position and you choose Mercy which you are not experienced at then when you lose, because you don't play mercy as well as Reaper, then you lose a lot of rank points because the game says, "Hey, you suck at Mercy and you don't belong in this rank..."

Which totally flies in the face of the concept of the game which is rock paper scissor countering. You are expected to switch to counter but you are punished for doing so.

[Eapoe]

The mmr system measures your ability on that character against other people on the same character. If you do amazing on say Reaper the game judges you to be a really amazing player and will give you more Ranking points to push you where you will fight people of the same skill level. If you lose you will lose less points. If you are absolute trash on a character it will say you don't belong in that rank and take away a lot more rank points to put you where you belong.

So if you are really good at Reaper you will climb the ranks quickly but lets say you get into a game and someone else picks reaper first and all that is left is the healer position and you choose Mercy which you are not experienced at then when you lose, because you don't play mercy as well as Reaper, then you lose a lot of rank points because the game says, "Hey, you suck at Mercy and you don't belong in this rank..."

Which totally flies in the face of the concept of the game which is rock paper scissor countering. You are expected to switch to counter but you are punished for doing so.

It's a good explanation, but I don't think it's completely accurate. For instance, I could play Mercy and get 10,000 healing on a win with 3 kills and 1 death and on a win I might gain 15 where on a loss I lose 20-25. Same game later and I might gain 25-40 or lose only 12.
I've played Support too many games and seen the gain:loss difference swing drastically from game to game. Hell, I had 1 KotH match where we dominated the enemy team and I played Mercy and came out with 3-4K healing and gain 45 SR. The pendulum swings just as wide for tanks and damage as well.
There's too many factors to judge based on just how you play against others who pick the same character. There has to be factors based on length of the match, healing overall, damage absorbed/prevented overall vs damage/kills done, environmental kills, etc.
I will say I believe you are partly correct and what you stated is a big factor overall, but I also believe there is a lot more to it than just you vs other players on the same character in the same MMR. Possible factors are how you play against certain teams, such as if they have a Pharah and you are on Lucio and get a kill, you get more kill points based on that versus play, where if she kills you then you receive less penalty, as the odds are stacked against Lucio in that fight. Where as playing 76, someone who's perceived to be a counter, gets a kill on Pharah and gets some kind of kill point awarded during the match, but if he gets a kill on Rein he would gain a few more kill points during that match.
Of course, this is all speculation and we could theorize all day and night, but Blizz is being hush about it (maybe in some attempt to keep people from gaming the system), and there is definitely more to it.

[Jessicka]

I think the system is fairly straightforward for DPS heroes. I totally agree it seems to fall over for Tanks and Support where you're in positions to 'do what's necessary', which might not do anything good for your stats by which you're judged. What sticks in mind was a match as Reinhardt last season, and why I won't play him anymore, was a win during a time I was gaining 25-30sr on D.Va and other heroes. I gained 13SR, but all I needed to do was hold RMB, not throw out badly timed Fire Strikes, not die, and use opportune moments to recharge my shield. They were kicking out a lot of DPS, so pressing charge or swinging was suicide, so I didn't do it. And we won because I wasn't an idiot. I got a card for damage blocked. But also felt seriously punished for not being an idiot and focusing on soaking and not giving them a single window to break through, I felt like I'd lost 12-15 sr.

Shit like that when you're forced to play conservatively hurts those roles; because when your tank is intractable, there's not a lot to heal either. By contrast, when I've gained the most sr, it's when I've been able to play aggressively because I've had good healers and DPS too keep me alive and shorten the fights. It's clearly a system that wants you to be aggressive and do numbers, even though it's not necessarily what's wanted or needed to win for those roles, but always is for DPS, which is why it seems to work better for them.

[Woobels]

The MMR system is stupid is probably the most complained about feature in the game right now, atleast by the vocal part of the competitive playerbase.

It's actually pretty easy to game the system and that absolutely should not happen in any system that decides your ranking.

Just make it win/loss and be done with it imo.

[DeadmanWalking]

The MMR system is stupid is probably the most complained about feature in the game right now, atleast by the vocal part of the competitive playerbase.

It's actually pretty easy to game the system and that absolutely should not happen in any system that decides your ranking.

Just make it win/loss and be done with it imo.

Well the problem with humble opinions is that humble opinions are devoid of actual inside knowledge. We don't know what all goes into the mr or why those qualifiers were chosen over strait up wins. We are not insiders, we are outsiders guessing as to what is what and why. It seems counter productive to have a game based on counters have an mmr system that benefits having a main. However it is entirely likely that there is no good system and this is the best of the bad choices to implement.

[Woobels]

Well the problem with humble opinions is that humble opinions are devoid of actual inside knowledge. We don't know what all goes into the mr or why those qualifiers were chosen over strait up wins. We are not insiders, we are outsiders guessing as to what is what and why. It seems counter productive to have a game based on counters have an mmr system that benefits having a main. However it is entirely likely that there is no good system and this is the best of the bad choices to implement.

I mean I know that but wouldn't you say having MMR be based on simply winning (much like almost every other competitive game out there) would you know, promote people trying to win which includes picking correctly.

Right now you can meme it up and learn how to be good at Bastion/Sombra/whatever and you'll start to rank WAY higher.

[Eapoe]

Perfect example of why people should learn at least 1 character in every role: I just played a game where my team had 4 people that main support. Playing KotH, not knowing the support main issue, I went Lucio 1st round, swapped off to let someone else play support, finished the game with gold elims and healing, and neither of those numbers were that high.
Next game, get people that can't hit anything, all play close range characters yet the Genji and Sombra walk all around behind the lines because no one watches the back line.

[Endus]

Well the problem with humble opinions is that humble opinions are devoid of actual inside knowledge. We don't know what all goes into the mr or why those qualifiers were chosen over strait up wins. We are not insiders, we are outsiders guessing as to what is what and why. It seems counter productive to have a game based on counters have an mmr system that benefits having a main. However it is entirely likely that there is no good system and this is the best of the bad choices to implement.

The intent was that if you're stomping people, or getting stomped, you should adjust in rank more quickly, to get you closer to your "proper" matchmaking rank where you'll get more-evenly-matched teams.

I think the biggest issue they have with it is based on the following;

1> Placements are godawful. It's a bad system, it's swung way too much by who you get stuck with, and it's at its worst with new players (there's some MMR it can use with players with prior seasons).

2> Placements tend to drop you somewhere between 1500 and 3500. Which is also where the majority of the player base is.

3> Given that placements are bad at getting you placed properly, you get a lot of people dropped into ranks that are too low/high, but still within the most-populated ranks, so there's a weird lack of consistency in the players you get at any given rank.

What could MAYBE help is an "uncertainty" penalty to placements for new players with uncertain MMR; I suspect they already drop you 100-200 points at the start of a season (so most people will climb "up" to their proper rank, rather than the reverse), but for a player who just started, maybe that should be closer to 500-1000 points. If they really deserve the higher rank, they'll claw their way up there. If they don't, they're not crapping up higher-tier games. The basic idea is that a "new player" entering their first season in Competitive probably shouldn't start in Gold. Even if they deserve to be in Diamond/Master, it'll give them some time in Comp to learn the ropes before they actually get there. And for players who've had prior seasons, they don't need this, so they can start out where they should be.

10 placement matches just do a poor job of putting people in the right place, especially new players.

[DeadmanWalking]

The intent was that if you're stomping people, or getting stomped, you should adjust in rank more quickly, to get you closer to your "proper" matchmaking rank where you'll get more-evenly-matched teams.

I think the biggest issue they have with it is based on the following;

1> Placements are godawful. It's a bad system, it's swung way too much by who you get stuck with, and it's at its worst with new players (there's some MMR it can use with players with prior seasons).

2> Placements tend to drop you somewhere between 1500 and 3500. Which is also where the majority of the player base is.

3> Given that placements are bad at getting you placed properly, you get a lot of people dropped into ranks that are too low/high, but still within the most-populated ranks, so there's a weird lack of consistency in the players you get at any given rank.

What could MAYBE help is an "uncertainty" penalty to placements for new players with uncertain MMR; I suspect they already drop you 100-200 points at the start of a season (so most people will climb "up" to their proper rank, rather than the reverse), but for a player who just started, maybe that should be closer to 500-1000 points. If they really deserve the higher rank, they'll claw their way up there. If they don't, they're not crapping up higher-tier games. The basic idea is that a "new player" entering their first season in Competitive probably shouldn't start in Gold. Even if they deserve to be in Diamond/Master, it'll give them some time in Comp to learn the ropes before they actually get there. And for players who've had prior seasons, they don't need this, so they can start out where they should be.

10 placement matches just do a poor job of putting people in the right place, especially new players.

Last season around easter my daughter who never played fps before placed at 2700, this season it put her at 1800 and she has floated between that and 1600. She spent a lot of time learning how to play over the summer like it was crack. She is now the kind of widow I don't like to run into on the enemy team, they kind that makes you scream at your monitor. But yeah, placement was too high at first.

[Twen]

Funny of the week: earlier in mystery heroes I was told by some e-peening diamonds what basically amounted to "team composition doesn't make any difference" in an attempt to deny that the mode is about RNG. Kinda makes me wonder how did someone that delusional even reach diamond in the first place. Ah well, reminded me to not bother trying to reason with socially immature people as it's always just a waste of time.

[Freighter]

I'll repeat it again: Blizzard really needs to add some way to avoid players ending up on your team again, ever. I just ended up with the 5-man premade that's just throwing again, 2 games in a row despite waiting to sign the second time. -50 rating because you can't avoid the griefers and they seemingly never get banned with the amount of times I've run into them, on my team or on the enemy team.