So how are your games going lately? [megathread]

[Gandrake]

That is honestly the worst comparison I've ever seen.

>complains about me saying Mercy is so much better than every other support
>complains about analogy and calls it stupid despite being the same line of logic used to say other healers were better than mercy before she was changed

well i'm gonna have to put on my best jeff kaplan impression and say you really got me on that one

[Jester Joe]

>complains about me saying Mercy is so much better than every other support
>complains about analogy and calls it stupid despite being the same line of logic used to say other healers were better than mercy before she was changed

well i'm gonna have to put on my best jeff kaplan impression and say you really got me on that one

You're comparing Bastion to attackers.

Bastion is not an attacking character. It's as simple as that. You had an awful comparison, and now you're trying to think that comparison within the role is equal to that?

I'll humor you more though.

Bastion isn't mobile at all for his maximum output.
His self heal is slow and requires him to not take any other action.
He has a giant weak spot on his back that any flanker can take care of if he tries using turret mode aggressively.
He requires a barrier to be able to sit safely, which requires babysitting.

Compare that to Soldier, who can do just about the same damage as Recon mode Bastion, who can drop his heal and continue to attack, while also having an ability to quickly reposition and also to do burst damage to a target.

Also I'm not even talking about valk changes, I'm talking about original Mercy, who had to stay still to cast her ult in the first place.

If you want to actually try discussing this with facts and reason rather than "I don't like her" and false equivalencies though, let me know.

[Ravex]

People don't see a reason to shake up right now and switch to Moira as the healer.

The rez is part of it no doubt, but unless you see something like when they nerfed Ana and drastically buffed Mercy several times, I doubt you'll see much change. People have it set in their mind that you need Mercy.

Also, as pointed out in the other thread, Mercy has a farther heal range than Moira does.

People don't see a reason to shake up?

Like they didn't when Ana came out?

That is purely your uneducated opinion.

The res isn't PART of it, it's the only reason.

Why grab a healer who can only try to prevent death when you can grab one that can try to prevent AND negate it.

[Jester Joe]

People don't see a reason to shake up?

Like they didn't when Ana came out?

That is purely your uneducated opinion.

The res isn't PART of it, it's the only reason.

Why grab a healer who can only try to prevent death when you can grab one that and try to prevent AND negate it.

You're ignoring the "unless you see something like when they nerfed Ana and drastically buffed Mercy several times" part.

Also Ana did fly under the radar for a bit, but her ult was ridiculously overpowered at the time, so people dropped everything to use her.

Make Moira's ult uninterruptable, make allies in it go faster, or something and I'd be willing to bet you'd see similar.

[Gandrake]

You're comparing Bastion to attackers.

i compared bastion to every damage hero in the game the same way you compared mercy minus valk to other supports

and i dont know what this rambling about attackers is, mercy is op because teams without her are disadvantaged unless they are significantly better than the players they are playing against. to argue against this is futile - ryujehong is the best ana in the world, won OWWC for SK, and had to play Mercy. there is no other reason, this is the only reason. it's very simple; 8v8 is better than 6v8.

[Ravex]

You're ignoring the "unless you see something like when they nerfed Ana and drastically buffed Mercy several times" part.

Also Ana did fly under the radar for a bit, but her ult was ridiculously overpowered at the time, so people dropped everything to use her.

Make Moira's ult uninterruptable, make allies in it go faster, or something and I'd be willing to bet you'd see similar.

I never ignored it. It just has nothing to do what we are talking about.

Your arguing that Moira isn't an alternative to Mercy because people don't see the need to shake things up.

Ana did this on release.

Moira is pretty on par with old Ana. I'd still give the edge to old Ana.

Current Mercy is TIER SSSSSSSSSSSS compared to old Mercy.

Hence the no change.

- - - Updated - - -

i compared bastion to every damage hero in the game the same way you compared mercy minus valk to other supports

and i dont know what this rambling about attackers is, mercy is op because teams without her are disadvantaged unless they are significantly better than the players they are playing against. to argue against this is futile - ryujehong is the best ana in the world, won OWWC for SK, and had to play Mercy. there is no other reason, this is the only reason. it's very simple; 8v8 is better than 6v8.

Yea, always a bad sign when people try using the subsets to compare heroes. There are 3, DPS, Tanks, and Healers. Nothing else. Really doesn't matter what it says in game. Looking at you Sym, Junk, Hanzo, and Widow.

[Jester Joe]

i compared bastion to every damage hero in the game the same way you compared mercy minus valk to other supports

and i dont know what this rambling about attackers is, mercy is op because teams without her are disadvantaged unless they are significantly better than the players they are playing against. to argue against this is futile - ryujehong is the best ana in the world, won OWWC for SK, and had to play Mercy. there is no other reason, this is the only reason. it's very simple; 8v8 is better than 6v8.

Bastion isn't a damage hero. He's a defense hero.

It would be like trying to compare Roadhog and Reaper. They both have similar guns after all, and they're both based around getting up in people's faces!

I never ignored it. It just has nothing to do what we are talking about.

Your arguing that Moira isn't an alternative to Mercy because people don't see the need to shake things up.

Ana did this on release.

Moira is pretty on par with old Ana. I'd still give the edge to old Ana.

Current Mercy is TIER SSSSSSSSSSSS compared to old Mercy.

Hence the no change.

Old Ana enabled things like Reinhardt wrecking an entire team alone.

Current Moira does not do that. Hence, you're not going to see that drastic shake up. Also hence why I said it does matter that I said that, because it was kinda my point.
Moira is not as OP as Ana was with her original ult, so she didn't instantly replace Mercy.

Yea, always a bad sign when people try using the subsets to compare heroes. There are 3, DPS, Tanks, and Healers. Nothing else. Really doesn't matter what it says in game. Looking at you Sym, Junk, Hanzo, and Widow.

Pretty sure I said far more than that, but okay. You can ignore it just like they are.

The DPS output of Bastion isn't the same in any way, shape, or form as the HPS output of ANY healer. It's not even comparable, ergo, it's silly to try to.

[Ravex]

Bastion isn't a damage hero. He's a defense hero.

It would be like trying to compare Roadhog and Reaper. They both have similar guns after all, and they're both based around getting up in people's faces!



Old Ana enabled things like Reinhardt wrecking an entire team alone.

Current Moira does not do that. Hence, you're not going to see that drastic shake up. Also hence why I said it does matter that I said that, because it was kinda my point.
Moira is not as OP as Ana was with her original ult, so she didn't instantly replace Mercy.




Pretty sure I said far more than that, but okay. You can ignore it just like they are.

The DPS output of Bastion isn't the same in any way, shape, or form as the HPS output of ANY healer. It's not even comparable, ergo, it's silly to try to.

You are wrong about Ana.

But your now bringing up/adding things that have nothing to do with the point since you have run out of legitimate things to say.

I'm satisfied.

Been fun.

[Jester Joe]

You are wrong about Ana.

But your now bringing up/adding things that have nothing to do with the point since you have run out of legitimate things to say.

I'm satisfied.

Been fun.

Try actually backing that up then, rather than just saying "you are wrong".

Ana was nerfed several times, and then Mercy's pick rate started increasing as she got buffed.

There is nothing wrong about that information. The only one who's running out of legitimate things to say is the one suddenly backing off, and if you think what I said has "nothing to do with the point", then try rephrasing yourself, because all I said was in response to your claim that "Ana instantly took over upon release" as if that's relevant to Moira who's far more balanced than Ana was.


Also, to tack on as more-

-Ana's ultimate was broken as hell when used on Reinhardt, along with Genji and some others too (Beyblade anyone?)
-Ana's HPS while using her grenade was sickeningly high, while her grenade itself had a huge splash.
-Ana's damage output was also nothing to sneeze at, being able to snipe out other players and healing the entire team at nearly the same time.

[Ravex]

Try actually backing that up then, rather than just saying "you are wrong".

Ana was nerfed several times, and then Mercy's pick rate started increasing as she got buffed.

There is nothing wrong about that information. The only one who's running out of legitimate things to say is the one suddenly backing off, and if you think what I said has "nothing to do with the point", then try rephrasing yourself, because all I said was in response to your claim that "Ana instantly took over upon release" as if that's relevant to Moira who's far more balanced than Ana was.

My point still stands.

You said she was picked for her ult. I'm sure the fact that her sleep dart, anti heal, and raw damage had nothing to do with it. But yea, your not wrong. (In before "well that's part of it too")

"Ana was nerfed several times, then Mercy's pick rate started dincreasing as she got buffed" - Nothing to do what we are talking about.

"Bastion is a defence hero" - seriously?

All while the point of the conversation is res is broken.

You're right you are completely on point and all your side points that have nothing to do with it are also 100% correct.

Edit: Nice edit, can I go back to all my posts to add points also?

[Jester Joe]

My point still stands.

You said she was picked for her ult. I'm sure the fact that her sleep dart, anti heal, and raw damage had nothing to do with it. But yea, your not wrong.

I never said that was all she was picked for. I said her ult was so ridiculously strong, it's what caused the meta to be formed around her.

"Ana was nerfed several times, then Mercy's pick rate started dincreasing as she got buffed" - Nothing to do what we are talking about.

It does, people love to act like Mercy was always a "MUST HAVE" since the start of the game. Also, the point was you were claiming if Mercy wasn't broken, Moira would knock her out, like Ana knocked out other healers.

My point was Ana was OP, that's why she did that. Moira is not, so there's no big shakeup.

"Bastion is a defence hero" - seriously?

Yes. That's irrelevant to my conversation with you though, not sure why you're bringing that up while trying to peg me as the one bringing up irrelevant info.

Take that issue up with Gandrake for bringing up Bastion in regards to Mercy to begin with if you have an issue with that.

All while the point of the conversation is res is broken.

My point was rez isn't the only reason Mercy is picked. Remove rez and she'll still be picked. I won't deny that, but that doesn't mean we should keep taking a bat to rez as a mechanic and hope it fixes it.
Tune down her ult duration, yes.
Increase the amount of ult charge she needs too.

And here's controversial, increase the range at which you can rez someone, it feels far too awful right now. Keep the snare and heck, maybe increase it to 2 seconds of a cast. Maybe make damage break it, but not put it on CD (Like Sombra's hack).

And most importantly, in regards to the newest nerf, either take away the extra charge upon ulting, or the instant cast rez, not BOTH though. That was overkill.
Personally I'd go in favor of removing the instant rez. Having her cast two rezzes in a row should punish the other team for not killing the stationary floating lightbulb with a giant "KILL ME" sign on her.

You're right you are completely on point and all your side points that have nothing to do with it are also 100% correct.

Maybe now you understand a bit better after this post.

Edit: Nice edit, can I go back to all my posts to add points also?

Are you really going to be petty about an edit that went out as you quoted me? Check the time stamp, don't be "that guy"

[Seefer]

If you out heal her with lucio you are playing lucio wrong. And Moira is Moira. So there is no point to be made there.

Actually it is all about timing on when to do things, and if it is "Moira is Moira" wouldn't that mean Moira is more powerful than Mercy? Hmmmm

[Gandrake]

played this game since launch but didn't realize until 40 minutes ago that i could see the animation of skillshatter finish, dash into it, and then be stunned

Bastion isn't a damage hero. He's a defense hero.

k

have fun arguing semantics with yourself

if it is "Moira is Moira" wouldn't that mean Moira is more powerful than Mercy? Hmmmm

Moira doesn't have valkyrie

so no

[Jessicka]

I know you weren't responding to me, and I don't agree with the other poster saying he is shit tier. But that link REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hurts everyone of the positive arguments about mercy here.

Like how are you going to argue with a hero that pretty much has double the pick rate of anything else across the board?

She had a really high pick rate when she was actually shit tier, because she's accessible, fun with all that mobility, and as a character, just insanely popular; she also had basically no competition for the role of 'main healer' until Ana came along (and look at Ana's pick rates). Same reason D.Va had high pick rates in S1 and S2 when she was awful. Add some 'being good' onto an already popular hero, and you add a lot of players.

[Ravex]

Actually it is all about timing on when to do things, and if it is "Moira is Moira" wouldn't that mean Moira is more powerful than Mercy? Hmmmm

No,

and

Yes, she can out heal Mercy. Too bad she can't Res huh?

Glad you turned the corner.

[Jester Joe]

played this game since launch but didn't realize until 40 minutes ago that i could see the animation of skillshatter finish, dash into it, and then be stunned



k

have fun arguing semantics with yourself



Moira doesn't have valkyrie

so no

I also find ignoring 95% of a post to nitpick one line an acceptable way of trying to prove a point.

I'll just accept that as you can't actually debate this then.

[Ravex]

She had a really high pick rate when she was actually shit tier, because she's accessible, fun with all that mobility, and as a character, just insanely popular; she also had basically no competition for the role of 'main healer' until Ana came along (and look at Ana's pick rates). Same reason D.Va had high pick rates in S1 and S2 when she was awful. Add some 'being good' onto an already popular hero, and you add a lot of players.

Feel free to back that up with any information other then you saying it.

[Gandrake]

pretty sure i'm going to beat a junkrat player's face in with a rock if i get solo ulted one more time when mercy is one hit

I'll just accept that as you can't actually debate this then.

i'm just going to accept that you're bronze

[Seefer]

No,

and

Yes, she can out heal Mercy. Too bad she can't Res huh?

Glad you turned the corner.

What about those who have ults that can negate an ult with theirs?

[Ravex]

What about those who have ults that can negate an ult with theirs?

Yea Mercy has that too, you negate the ult by ressing the people. You can also be active in a fight elsewhere before you negate the ult!

Good point.