1. #9741
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Willfully obtuse, much?
    The person wasn’t complaining about SR. They literally made a statement that they are expected to carry a match. He/she didn’t make a comment or complaint about how SR is unfair or broken or how accurate it is. It was more along the lines of if they want to climb they are expected to carry groups, which is more a statement about teamwork.
    Now, you can twist that into being about SR, and hell I might even be wrong and their comment was about that, but I took it to be more about expectations vs reality of skill vs teamwork. Not a direct correlation of how theSR works.
    If you want to make it about SR issues, then we could discuss all day about how that works, what is known and not known, as well as the merits and downfalls between Blizzard’s system and a simple ladder. My opinion is a ladder system would be better as it actually places more emphasis on teamwork rather than the whole me me me mentality we come across in Overwatch.
    The mentality that you have to carry games stems from contempt for your teammates and personal belief that you are superior and thus not in the correct matchmaking pool that SR dictates. You can argue I am generalising for sure but that's where all this bitching arises from. People don't understand they are matched with teammates because those people are similar in ability.

    What do you mean by a ladder system? I would describe the current iteration as ladder (and so does the community in general, no?), you win games, you go up, you are matched against tougher opponents.

    And yeah I could talk about the SR system for hours but it generally boils down to people blaming their teammates and refusing to concede they could improve themselves, which is just tiring.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    LOL WAT
    it's more like they run in 1 vs 5/6 one after another instead of grouping up...
    Both are fairly common. Gold and plat boys just love to dick around in chokes 'til the timer runs down lul.

  2. #9742
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    People don't understand they are matched with teammates because those people are similar in ability.
    That's not what SR does. There's a huge difference in skill between people on similar SR. It matches people with similar SR, not similar skill. With how random it is whether you win or not when you play with randoms, it is not indicative of skill in any way. When I play 6-stack, there's a huge difference in how fun the games are but I only have 6-stack every now and then and my SR shoots up whenever I play 6-stack instead of solo.
    Last edited by Darya; 2019-05-07 at 01:28 PM.

  3. #9743
    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    That's not what SR does. There's a huge difference in skill between people on similar SR. It matches people with similar SR, not similar skill. With how random it is whether you win or not when you play with randoms, it is not indicative of skill in any way. When I play 6-stack, there's a huge difference in how fun the games are but I only have 6-stack every now and then and my SR shoots up whenever I play 6-stack instead of solo.
    That's because you're being carried. If you play lots of games your SR comes to reflect your skill, ergo you are matched with people of a similar skill. Sure, there is an element of randomness because humans are random, people can have bad days and play well below their SR or vice versa but generally SR is a good indicator of skill.

    Playing in stacks blurs the line a little, if you're not matched against a six-stack your SRs are weighted a little higher to account for the potentially increased coordination, but that's not enough, 6-stacks will generally roll non-6-stacks and only have reasonably balanced games vs. another 6.

    But sure, I can pretend you're better than gold or plat or whatever your SR is if you want, it's not like I haven't heard it a thousand times before.

  4. #9744
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    That's because you're being carried. If you play lots of games your SR comes to reflect your skill, ergo you are matched with people of a similar skill. Sure, there is an element of randomness because humans are random, people can have bad days and play well below their SR or vice versa but generally SR is a good indicator of skill.

    Playing in stacks blurs the line a little, if you're not matched against a six-stack your SRs are weighted a little higher to account for the potentially increased coordination, but that's not enough, 6-stacks will generally roll non-6-stacks and only have reasonably balanced games vs. another 6.

    But sure, I can pretend you're better than gold or plat or whatever your SR is if you want, it's not like I haven't heard it a thousand times before.
    You really have no clue about the game at all if you think everyone on the same SR is on equal skill level. Delusional is the word for that.

  5. #9745
    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    You really have no clue about the game at all if you think everyone on the same SR is on equal skill level. Delusional is the word for that.
    They generally are, excluding smurfs, cheaters and other outliers. What makes you think they're not? Do you not climb as you improve? I've generally found that I do, I also find that I drop when I play poorly, or I try to learn a new position/hero.

    Although if you're just gonna do the whole MY TEAM ARE BAD LOL shtick and try to convince me you don't belong at 2500 then feel free to not respond.

  6. #9746
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    They generally are, excluding smurfs, cheaters and other outliers. What makes you think they're not? Do you not climb as you improve? I've generally found that I do, I also find that I drop when I play poorly, or I try to learn a new position/hero.

    Although if you're just gonna do the whole MY TEAM ARE BAD LOL shtick and try to convince me you don't belong at 2500 then feel free to not respond.
    No, they're not. Do you know why? Because just because you're good at playing a certain character doesn't mean you can play as well on another character. People keep switching to characters they can't play as well as the one they're the best at. If I switch to Genji, you won't see me playing like a player who got to diamond as Genji, I'll play like a fucking gold Genji because I'm not good at him. Me being in Diamond doesn't automatically make me good at playing all characters, the same applies to others. A lot of games when playing solo you end up with 6 players who all play DPS characters and some switching to play tanks or healers. They're not going to be as good as someone who played those roles to diamond, because they got there playing DPS.

    My rating can fluctuate over 500 in a week due to throwers/disconnects/leavers. It's just broken. Not to mention, facing 6-stacks when you're playing solo.
    Last edited by Darya; 2019-05-07 at 02:10 PM.

  7. #9747
    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    No, they're not. Do you know why? Because just because you're good at playing a certain character doesn't mean you can play as well on another character. People keep switching to characters they can't play as well as the one they're the best at. If I switch to Genji, you won't see me playing like a player who got to diamond as Genji, I'll play like a fucking gold Genji because I'm not good at him. Me being in Diamond doesn't automatically make me good at playing all characters, the same applies to others. A lot of games when playing solo you end up with 6 players who all play DPS characters and some switching to play tanks or healers. They're not going to be as good as someone who played those roles to diamond, because they got there playing DPS.
    Absolutely, but this is why I mentioned it is true once you have played many games. Affects like these average out, if your team members play heroes they're poor on 50% of the time, then so do the enemy team. This, in fact, is a benefit to you increasing your SR, the more inconsistent you assert that other players are then the easier it will be for your to leverage an advantage by playing well using heroes you are good at piloting.

  8. #9748
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Absolutely, but this is why I mentioned it is true once you have played many games. Affects like these average out, if your team members play heroes they're poor on 50% of the time, then so do the enemy team. This, in fact, is a benefit to you increasing your SR, the more inconsistent you assert that other players are then the easier it will be for your to leverage an advantage by playing well using heroes you are good at piloting.
    You shouldn't have to play many games. Last season I had 13 hours played, my rating fluctuated like hell during that time and my highest for the season was around 3200. Know where I ended the season? 2800. My lowest for the season? 2300. If you need to play hundreds of hours, it's a broken system. I can play whenever I want to in CS, how many games I want to and never have to deal with this fluctuation in my rank there.

    OW has one of the shittiest ranked modes I've ever played. It also doesn't help that we can't play with people who speak the same languages as us. I get pissed at Russians who only speak Russian, even if I know Russian myself. Why? Because the rest of the team don't know Russian. Encounter this very frequently in ranked as well, people who won't speak a common language.

    You don't see this huge fluctuation in ranks in other games with ranked modes, which means OW has a broken ranked system.
    Last edited by Darya; 2019-05-07 at 02:31 PM.

  9. #9749
    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    You shouldn't have to play many games. Last season I had 13 hours played, my rating fluctuated like hell during that time and my highest for the season was around 3200. Know where I ended the season? 2800. If you need to play hundreds of hours, it's a broken system. I can play whenever I want to in CS, how many games I want to and never have to deal with this fluctuation in my rank there.

    OW has one of the shittiest ranked modes I've ever played.
    So don't play it, if it's that upsetting for you. I'm not necessarily defending the necessity to grind to improve/stabilise your SR, but it makes sense given the complexity of the game, you essentially have 5 different positions, each filled by different characters with different abilities and playstyles and then on top of that you have the synergies or lack thereof given which heroes are chosen to fill which positions.

    Also, your season end being 400 SR lower than your peak doesn't mean much, that's 16 losses (thereabouts, there's the plat and below performance adjusted thing too). What's your mean SR? How many games played total? How often do you play your preferred hero/position? Throwing out random numbers is meaningless without context. Do you expect to play 20 games and have the matchmaking system understand your ability perfectly? I think that's unreasonable.

    Given the number of variables, I think SR does a good job of reflecting ability, unless they're obvious smurfs/throwers it's usually pretty easy to identify bronze/silver players vs. gold/plat etc.

  10. #9750
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    So don't play it, if it's that upsetting for you.
    Why do you think I have such low hours of played last season? It's because I've abandoned the game for other games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    I'm not necessarily defending the necessity to grind to improve/stabilise your SR, but it makes sense given the complexity of the game, you essentially have 5 different positions, each filled by different characters with different abilities and playstyles and then on top of that you have the synergies or lack thereof given which heroes are chosen to fill which positions.
    No, it doesn't make sense. Other games with ranked systems have far lower fluctuations and are more accurate in assessing where you should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Do you expect to play 20 games and have the matchmaking system understand your ability perfectly? I think that's unreasonable.
    Yes? Whenever I've played Quick Play on new accounts, it is fast as hell to make me face people who are similar skill level as me instead of against new players. So, they do have the ability to match people with/against people of similar skill level. It's quite embarrassing that quick play is better and faster at that than ranked. While ranked might make your MMR to where it should be, your SR is not. In Quick Play it typically takes 10-15 games and then I no longer meet new players and I'm teamed with/against players who feel more like they're diamond/master level of skill.
    Last edited by Darya; 2019-05-07 at 02:49 PM.

  11. #9751
    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    snip
    Interesting you'd come in here to assert your knowledge of the SR system in a game you don't play.

    Other games of similar complexity have a lower (normalised) variance in player MMR with less time spent in game? I'd be interested if you could prove that.

    I don't even know where to start w.r.t QP lol, who cares about QP? The only reason you might feel it's more well balanced is because you're much likely to be in a 6 dps vs. 6 dps clusterfuck where people of similar mechanical skill are just fragging each other over and over. Do you feel similarly about the practice vs. bots gamemode?

  12. #9752
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Interesting you'd come in here to assert your knowledge of the SR system in a game you don't play.
    13 hours last season. I've got several hundreds of hours played over all my accounts.

    Quick Play is capable of determining where you should be really fast, it takes 10-15 games. Know why? Because the system realizes someone wrecking the opponents shouldn't be faced against those new players. When I come out of the games with like 80 eliminations, the system will push me away from that MMR really fucking fast in Quick Play even if the team loses because of my performance. MMR exists in ranked but SR also exists in ranked. To get SR, you need to win. If you don't win, you don't get any SR. They also removed the performance mattering in diamond and above for some fucking stupid reason.

    This is what they implemented to stop people starting new accounts from destroying new players experience. The game would be a lot better if you could lose/gain rating independently of your team winning or losing.

    In CS you can gain ranks even if you lose. You can lose rank even if you win. That's why there's no huge mismatch between peoples rank and skill in that game compared to Overwatch.
    Last edited by Darya; 2019-05-07 at 03:05 PM.

  13. #9753
    Performance based SR above diamond is removed because making a system that accounts for all of the swaps you made to counterplay and time played on a character in a round or in a match is difficult.

    Shit my team is being stomped by hammond and doomfist so I play sombra for 30 seconds, deny these heroes but do less damage than I would on something else, am able to deny them the pressure they had from these heroes but they pull back and consequently I get less eliminations than I would on say Genji:

    Should this personal SR system penalize me for doing less damage and getting less kills based on how the enemy turtled and my damage was reduced?

    What if I only utilize hack and never EMP after that because they start to trickle and it would be pointless to use it, should I be penalized for less ults per minute?

    There are thousand upon thousands of nuanced situations that a personal SR system can't begin to account for- and that is why it doesn't belong in masters or gm, or even diamond for that matter. Once the game is being played mostly correctly such a system just punishes you for playing the game how its supposed to be played.
    ---
    I have gotten to the point where I will throw a game on my alts if someone is ubertoxic to someone else.

    I just had an Ana main who got literally 0 antis on the enemy team shit talking our meek little zenyatta player non stop- all game long. So i calmly explained that the Ana deserved to lose and apologized to everyone else and offered to help the zen win a few to compensate.
    Last edited by Thirza; 2019-05-08 at 01:45 AM.

  14. #9754
    Pandaren Monk ThatsOurEric's Avatar
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    You know the SR system is busted when 2 players on your team can't dps worth a fuck,
    you ask them to let someone else try (nicely), and both of them can't heal well either.

    So...yeah. Flawless system for fucking over people who do know how to play.

  15. #9755
    All of the autoaim in this game needs to be deleted.

    Visor, moira, deadeye, winston, brig, mercy, torb and sym, mei.

  16. #9756
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirza View Post
    All of the autoaim in this game needs to be deleted.

    Visor, moira, deadeye, winston, brig, mercy, torb and sym, mei.
    Someone complaining about Deadeye? My word.

  17. #9757
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Someone complaining about Deadeye? My word.
    More that I just want all autoaim out of the game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Girighet View Post
    Mei doesn't have autoaim nor does mercy or symmetra.
    Turrets autoaim, and Mei's gun is basically a narrow cone, which is aim assist to such a degree that it should be deleted. Mercy's primary and secondary fire are 100% autoaim. It should not be -that easy- to heal someone.

  18. #9758
    Don't be one of those 'All aim, no brain' type of people.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  19. #9759
    Haven't really played since goats became a thing

    My DeviantART: http://hypzone.deviantart.com/ | Requests: Closed

  20. #9760
    Quote Originally Posted by NoiseTank13 View Post
    Don't be one of those 'All aim, no brain' type of people.
    It is just starting to be tedious.

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