1. #10141
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirza View Post
    People in this thread have short memories. The higher cited account is one that a friend of his let him play on, that was already put at that SR.

    Additionally he said he doesn't play on it often, so his performance hasn't caught up with him. A healer player that can't get out plat deserves to be there. Diamond isn't much more impressive than plat tbh, just slightly less bad.

    A good ana or zen carries matches, period. They can easily climb to GM from bronze by merit of being able to get kills and having obscene utility in a team game.

    He is most accurately described as a hardstuck 3k player if we take all of his posts as 100% true.
    ---

    On topic, I was in a GM game, ended with something like 7.5k damage done 5k healing done, zen outhealed me, but it doesn't matter, because the enemy team literally never got a clean engagement, because they were always down 1 from sleep into kill, or team anti'd. Meanwhile I can be playing on an alt at 3.3 or something and our ana gets a healing card for like 25k healing done but she was basically a non entity because the utility use was bad.

    I see people here say they are the top performer in all their games, and I know they mean medals, but that isn't how OW is won.
    Yet he commented 2 more accounts, not just 1. By your own posts you’ve even stated “give me your account info so I can rank it up and watch it fall when I give it back” (paraphrasing). You just said the other account is a friends that he let him play and he stated he hasn’t fallen. 300 games or not, by your account, he should have fallen. He even stated it’s been here doing steady.
    You can say what you want, but other than your anecdotal evidence vs other’s anecdotal evidence, there is nothing more than 1 side going “uh huh” with the other side going “nuh uh.”
    Bottom line is no one really knows how SR works because Blizzard has never come out and explained it. There’s every bit as much of a chance of it not being as great as people say as there is a chance of it being a perfect system.

  2. #10142
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Yet he commented 2 more accounts, not just 1. By your own posts you’ve even stated “give me your account info so I can rank it up and watch it fall when I give it back” (paraphrasing). You just said the other account is a friends that he let him play and he stated he hasn’t fallen. 300 games or not, by your account, he should have fallen. He even stated it’s been here doing steady.
    You can say what you want, but other than your anecdotal evidence vs other’s anecdotal evidence, there is nothing more than 1 side going “uh huh” with the other side going “nuh uh.”
    Bottom line is no one really knows how SR works because Blizzard has never come out and explained it. There’s every bit as much of a chance of it not being as great as people say as there is a chance of it being a perfect system.
    So do you not believe GM players are better than plats? If this argument is anecdotal vs anecdotal then the vast number of people whose skills correlate with their SR surely cant exist right, since that would constitute evidence against these screeching kids who wish their number would go up.

  3. #10143
    Bad I used to be a diamond-player, but as of late, I seem to always be put into the silver-league...

  4. #10144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Everyone plays in the same environment my dude, inability to climb is not due to teammates.
    My first account is stuck around 2600, I've got an alt account that just keeps placing higher and higher every new season. It started out at 2500 but now it's placing at diamond, it's been increasing by about 100 for every season I've placed on it. I only play the placement games and it just keeps going higher and higher. Why? Why can't my main account place same as that account? There's something going on behind the scenes here when my other account can get placed higher and higher every season. Why is there over a 500 rating difference in placements between these 2 accounts when I'm the one playing both? If this placement increase doesn't stop on my other account, it's going to end up in master by just playing placements in 2-3 seasons.

    The only difference is that the other account is 100% Torbjørn, doesn't matter what anyone else picks. I always pick Torbjørn. On my main account, I pick to try to build around the team comp.
    Last edited by Aylaman; 2019-06-13 at 07:22 AM.

  5. #10145
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylaman View Post
    My first account is stuck around 2600, I've got an alt account that just keeps placing higher and higher every new season. It started out at 2500 but now it's placing at diamond, it's been increasing by about 100 for every season I've placed on it. I only play the placement games and it just keeps going higher and higher. Why? Why can't my main account place same as that account? There's something going on behind the scenes here when my other account can get placed higher and higher every season. Why is there over a 500 rating difference in placements between these 2 accounts when I'm the one playing both? If this placement increase doesn't stop on my other account, it's going to end up in master by just playing placements in 2-3 seasons.

    The only difference is that the other account is 100% Torbjørn, doesn't matter what anyone else picks. I always pick Torbjørn. On my main account, I pick to try to build around the team comp.
    Why are my accounts ranked differently he asks?

    Because I play differently, he answers.

    Edit: But seriously, lets pretend for a moment that you didn't answer your own question, lets pretend for a moment that you have two accounts that place differently despite the fact that it is your own play the game is estimating differently.
    Remember, the game estimates your SR based on your play, not on you. You are not consistent. This inconsistency can be explained is numerous ways and honestly is a pretty large factor, especially at low ranks.
    Inconsistency can be due to low practice, if many of your skills aren't muscle memory/unconscious or trained decision making, you generally have to tank about what you are doing, so you can have bouts of poor aim, you can make worse decisions than usual, but on the flip side you can nail some sick shots, you can make sick decisions. On top of that there's the biological side, maybe your muscles aren't warm, maybe you've been playing other games and you got some mad RSI beginning to rear it's head, maybe you're just having a shit day.
    All this contributes to variance in your ability, in terms of estimating your skills this would factor into the error on your MMR determined by the matchmaker. This is further exacerbated if your account is brand new and you've only played 10 games. If half the time you play like a 2200 and half the time 3200, chances are the MMR you will be given will be 2700, but the system will know your variance is large, this means your SR swings will be higher, it means if you try to play again next season and play well, it will accelerate your adjustments. Same goes in the other direction. This is why it is particularly easy to have a second account that is placed quite differently to your main, it's the error on the calculation inflated in one direction or the other by having played few games.
    Furthermore, alt accounts are a hassle to actually consider as real evidence due to the fact that humans are just human, they have brains and brains are dumb. I for sure play differently on my alt, even when I just wanna play some chill games using my main heroes. I'm more often solo, I'm more often less interested in communicating and most interested in just executing some nice play and being happy. And those changes are just the ones I consciously notice, who the fuck knows how else my behavior changes between the two accounts.

    If you try to convince me your play from one account to another is exactly the same, see the above for why you're wrong.
    Last edited by Kharadin; 2019-06-13 at 08:09 AM.

  6. #10146
    Although Heroes of The Storm is infinitely worse in terms of match making, this game gives it a
    good run for it's money at times.

    Lately I've been literally stuck in 2000-2100. Should be higher but well, it's better then when the
    game was REALLY fucking me over and sending me all the way to Bronze. Proof enough that the
    system is fucking retarded.

  7. #10147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Why are my accounts ranked differently he asks?

    Because I play differently, he answers.
    This is supposed to be a team-based game, why should I get better placements on my other account which I don't play as a team on?

  8. #10148
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylaman View Post
    This is supposed to be a team-based game, why should I get better placements on my other account which I don't play as a team on?
    This is a team based game? Pretty sure the leaderboards are per player. Pretty sure my SR is determined by my ability.

    Sure, you play in a team, but over a stretch of games if you want to increase your SR you're really just trying to outplay your counterpart on the enemy team. Also, consider what you're doing when trying to play as a team. You adjust your pick based on the composition, because that's good theory right? Improve your chances of winning by choosing the best hero for the job. Cool.

    Now consider, I don't care what my team comp is, I always pick Mei. Because I'm a dickhead who loves to tilt my own team. You adjust your hero, you have a couple hours on each hero. I have 60 hours on Mei. Chances are I can make correct decisions and execute mechanically demanding tasks on Mei better than you can for any single hero. I'm going to constantly outplay you and the game is now closer to a 5v6 than a 6v6. Thank you for your SR.

    Also, there is no "should" in the game. It doesn't matter what you "should" get, what matters is what you do get. Also placements are only 10 games, the variance in play over 10 games can be massive, it could've been equally likely you for you drop 500 SR just playing Torb as well as gain, no one cares about comparing the SR of accounts that have played 10 games. This is a statistically invalid proposal.

  9. #10149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Also, there is no "should" in the game. It doesn't matter what you "should" get, what matters is what you do get. Also placements are only 10 games, the variance in play over 10 games can be massive, it could've been equally likely you for you drop 500 SR just playing Torb as well as gain, no one cares about comparing the SR of accounts that have played 10 games. This is a statistically invalid proposal.
    It's not only 10 games. It's 10 games per season in placements. That's a lot of games over the seasons since the first placement. I'm not playing any better, at least that I think, based on these. I've had 9 games lost and still gained 100 rating from the previous the season. I've had 8 games won, still gained 100 rating from the previous season. It doesn't make any god damn sense at all why it should be increasing 100 every season no matter how many games I win or lose in placements.
    Last edited by Aylaman; 2019-06-13 at 08:39 AM.

  10. #10150
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylaman View Post
    It's not only 10 games. It's 10 games per season in placements. That's a lot of games over the seasons since the first placement. I'm not playing any better, at least that I think, based on these. I've had 9 games lost and still gained 100 rating from the previous the season. I've had 8 games won, still gained 100 rating from the previous season. It doesn't make any god damn sense at all why it should be increasing 100 every season no matter how many games I win or lose in placements.
    So, either Blizzard's algorithm has singled you out and decided to arbitrarily give you 100 SR per season for shits and giggles until you're GM just from placements or what you think is wrong.

    :thinking:

    Guess ladder is fucked, I'm gonna go play a different game.

  11. #10151
    3.7 alt game.

    Doomfist is mad that I picked Sombra(he doesn't want a 3d DPS) so he sits afk all game, throwing the odd left click so he doesn't get kicked.

    Spends the entire game ranting about how Sombra is broken(allchat and voice.)

    We win with 1 meter left to hold 5v6. He rants about how this rank is all bad and that his main is like t500, I tell him to add my main and prove it, he just leaves voice.

    https://i.imgur.com/F14PSm9.mp4
    https://pics.me.me/hmm-youre-a-naugh...e-14323194.png
    https://img.memecdn.com/tech-support..._o_6995981.jpg
    https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...57/470/753.jpg
    https://pics.me.me/are-you-keep-your...ah-6285116.png
    Last edited by Thirza; 2019-06-13 at 10:51 AM.

  12. #10152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    okay buddy.
    Why do you turn immature like that when I camly and maturely explained a situation?

    Do tell me, please try to be civil, what can you possibly do more than play well, communicate and swap hero etc. There are 6 players, if you are the only one communicating, how can you NOT blame the team? If you are the only one swapping to counter, and they one trick heroes and keep dying, how is it NOT the teams fault?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Why are my accounts ranked differently he asks?

    Because I play differently, he answers.

    Edit: But seriously, lets pretend for a moment that you didn't answer your own question, lets pretend for a moment that you have two accounts that place differently despite the fact that it is your own play the game is estimating differently.
    Remember, the game estimates your SR based on your play, not on you. You are not consistent. This inconsistency can be explained is numerous ways and honestly is a pretty large factor, especially at low ranks.
    Inconsistency can be due to low practice, if many of your skills aren't muscle memory/unconscious or trained decision making, you generally have to tank about what you are doing, so you can have bouts of poor aim, you can make worse decisions than usual, but on the flip side you can nail some sick shots, you can make sick decisions. On top of that there's the biological side, maybe your muscles aren't warm, maybe you've been playing other games and you got some mad RSI beginning to rear it's head, maybe you're just having a shit day.
    All this contributes to variance in your ability, in terms of estimating your skills this would factor into the error on your MMR determined by the matchmaker. This is further exacerbated if your account is brand new and you've only played 10 games. If half the time you play like a 2200 and half the time 3200, chances are the MMR you will be given will be 2700, but the system will know your variance is large, this means your SR swings will be higher, it means if you try to play again next season and play well, it will accelerate your adjustments. Same goes in the other direction. This is why it is particularly easy to have a second account that is placed quite differently to your main, it's the error on the calculation inflated in one direction or the other by having played few games.
    Furthermore, alt accounts are a hassle to actually consider as real evidence due to the fact that humans are just human, they have brains and brains are dumb. I for sure play differently on my alt, even when I just wanna play some chill games using my main heroes. I'm more often solo, I'm more often less interested in communicating and most interested in just executing some nice play and being happy. And those changes are just the ones I consciously notice, who the fuck knows how else my behavior changes between the two accounts.

    If you try to convince me your play from one account to another is exactly the same, see the above for why you're wrong.

    In my case, with 3 accounts, I always play the same, always try my best, always communicate and always go for the win. I was placed in around 3300 two times with my second accounts, don't remember exact numbers, but around there. And my main is stuck much lower, since it's a very old account that was platinum in season 2 when I started. Now I improved ALOT since then, reason I placed higher on my new accounts, but climbing is MUCH MUCH harder than placing with a new account. You lose slightly more SR than what you get from a win, and winrate seem to be pretty close to 50%, so climbing is insanely hard, even if you are better than where you play.

    Believe me, you can take GM players and put them on a plat account and it would take A LONG time before they could climb out, especially if they play tank or support. In fact, I have a friend in top 500, who play tank only and he deranked his alt account to plat and he is now stuck as well, cause unless you are a godlike top 500 dps, you can't really solo vs 6 people, OW is not that kind of game.

    And you might think "well you got lucky with your 2nd and 3rd accounts, a few good games and placement put you high, you will eventually drop down to your mains SR" and this is not correct. I played over 300 games on my second account and has managed to not drop, infact, I might have climbed like 50sr since the start. I stay around 3300, peaked at 3400 something but never lower than 3200. Same with my third account, played about 100 games on that, and still remain mid diamond.

    So, I honestly believe that IF I didn't belong here, I would have dropped withing those 400 games, but nope, i stay, because I belong here. But getting here with my main, who is almost 600SR lower, is not as easy as you might think.

  13. #10153
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Believe me, you can take GM players and put them on a plat account and it would take A LONG time before they could climb out, especially if they play tank or support. In fact, I have a friend in top 500, who play tank only and he deranked his alt account to plat and he is now stuck as well, cause unless you are a godlike top 500 dps, you can't really solo vs 6 people, OW is not that kind of game. .
    This is a lie.

    He lied to you(to make you feel better) or you are lying to us.

    Alternatively he payed someone to pilot an account to GM.

    I cannot express how fuckign ridiculous this claim is.
    Last edited by Thirza; 2019-06-14 at 04:05 AM.

  14. #10154
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Why do you turn immature like that when I camly and maturely explained a situation?

    Do tell me, please try to be civil, what can you possibly do more than play well, communicate and swap hero etc. There are 6 players, if you are the only one communicating, how can you NOT blame the team? If you are the only one swapping to counter, and they one trick heroes and keep dying, how is it NOT the teams fault?

    - - - Updated - - -




    In my case, with 3 accounts, I always play the same, always try my best, always communicate and always go for the win. I was placed in around 3300 two times with my second accounts, don't remember exact numbers, but around there. And my main is stuck much lower, since it's a very old account that was platinum in season 2 when I started. Now I improved ALOT since then, reason I placed higher on my new accounts, but climbing is MUCH MUCH harder than placing with a new account. You lose slightly more SR than what you get from a win, and winrate seem to be pretty close to 50%, so climbing is insanely hard, even if you are better than where you play.

    Believe me, you can take GM players and put them on a plat account and it would take A LONG time before they could climb out, especially if they play tank or support. In fact, I have a friend in top 500, who play tank only and he deranked his alt account to plat and he is now stuck as well, cause unless you are a godlike top 500 dps, you can't really solo vs 6 people, OW is not that kind of game.

    And you might think "well you got lucky with your 2nd and 3rd accounts, a few good games and placement put you high, you will eventually drop down to your mains SR" and this is not correct. I played over 300 games on my second account and has managed to not drop, infact, I might have climbed like 50sr since the start. I stay around 3300, peaked at 3400 something but never lower than 3200. Same with my third account, played about 100 games on that, and still remain mid diamond.

    So, I honestly believe that IF I didn't belong here, I would have dropped withing those 400 games, but nope, i stay, because I belong here. But getting here with my main, who is almost 600SR lower, is not as easy as you might think.

    I'm not engaging with you based on your post history, you have a tendency to be wilfully ignorant, parrot flawed arguments and just generally being dense.

    Enjoy being hardstuck diamond!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thirza View Post
    This is a lie.

    He lied to you(to make you feel better) or you are lying to us.

    Alternatively he payed someone to pilot an account to GM.

    I cannot express how fuckign ridiculous this claim is.
    Lol a gm hardstuck in plat, this guy is a joke.

  15. #10155
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Lol a gm hardstuck in plat, this guy is a joke.
    Pathological liars always slip up eventually and that is hands down the most ridiculous claim I've seen in this thread.
    ---
    Time for some pawsitivity.


  16. #10156
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirza View Post
    Pathological liars always slip up eventually and that is hands down the most ridiculous claim I've seen in this thread.
    ---
    Time for some pawsitivity.

    Not pawsitive at all, my cat was making these Shimada brothers noises this morning at 5am and it was wildly upsetting.

  17. #10157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirza View Post
    This is a lie.

    He lied to you(to make you feel better) or you are lying to us.

    Alternatively he payed someone to pilot an account to GM.

    I cannot express how fuckign ridiculous this claim is.
    He plays only tank, Rein, Winston and a few more. How do you expect to solo your way out with tanks? I would get it if he played some DPS, but a Rein can't exactly carry a game, not in plat and diamond at least.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thirza View Post
    Pathological liars always slip up eventually and that is hands down the most ridiculous claim I've seen in this thread.
    ---
    Time for some pawsitivity.

    I am not lying, I already explained that he has trouble solo climbing since he only play tanks. You can maybe solo as dps, but not as a reinhardt. He got to like 3000 but gave up there, and I don't blame him.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    I'm not engaging with you based on your post history, you have a tendency to be wilfully ignorant, parrot flawed arguments and just generally being dense.

    Enjoy being hardstuck diamond!

    - - - Updated - - -



    Lol a gm hardstuck in plat, this guy is a joke.
    How do you figure I am ignorant when I put effort into expressing myself in this thread and take all factors into account. I have been reasoning and not just wildly throwing out claims.

    If anything, YOU are ignorant for not wanting to listen how ranks work in overwatch. You think it's actually possible to soloclimb in this game and you think ELO hell is a made up thing. You want the game to work the way you think it does and rather say "i dont wanna talk with you" than face the reality.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thirza View Post
    This is a lie.

    He lied to you(to make you feel better) or you are lying to us.

    Alternatively he payed someone to pilot an account to GM.

    I cannot express how fuckign ridiculous this claim is.

    To further explain how "riddicilous" it is, do let me tell you. My friend, Dave, played CS for many years with some friends. When Overwatch came out they decided to tryhard it as well. The early seasons they played at Masters and toward maybe season 9-10 they reached GM. At one point, at the same time, Dave reached just 500, maybe 490 or something, which was his peak. Then they dropped down and played around 4000 before most of them quit. Without the team, Dave even dropped down to Masters before quitting as well.

    He later decided to make another account to smurf with for fun. He deranked it to silver or bronze and I remember him telling me like "time to pwn some plebs", but it didn't take long until he told me how it wasn't much fun. They won most games, but since Dave ONLY ever played maintanks, him playing genji or mcree or something, turned out to quite the avarage gameplay. Dave was never that good at aiming to begin with, even when he played counter strike, and in Overwatch, you can survive without insane aim with the right heroes, maintanks in Daves case. When he reached platinum, things got tougher, as people started communicating and played better. A tank player on MCree cant do that much vs 5 people, so his smurfing met a wall. He periodically swapped to tanks to win some games, but even then, if his team was bad, it didn't matter that he was the best tank in the match, if the other team had 2 tanks and 2 healers, him solo tanking without a healer in his team didn't make them win. He gave up at about 3000 rating.

    It's NOT ridicolous, I absolutely understand how frustrating it is, being a mid diamond player stuck in plat myself.

  18. #10158
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    lots of whining
    So, everyone else who can and does climb is some exception to your rule that solo climbing is impossible? Or is it only 'diamond level' players who are stuck in plat? Your reasoning is flawed and all your arguments I've refuted in previous posts, feel free to give them a read and get back to me.

    I'm still calling bullshit on your t500 friend lol, just the gamesense and awareness alone you must have to tank at GM levels would carry you quickly out of plat and diamond.

  19. #10159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    So, everyone else who can and does climb is some exception to your rule that solo climbing is impossible? Or is it only 'diamond level' players who are stuck in plat? Your reasoning is flawed and all your arguments I've refuted in previous posts, feel free to give them a read and get back to me.

    I'm still calling bullshit on your t500 friend lol, just the gamesense and awareness alone you must have to tank at GM levels would carry you quickly out of plat and diamond.
    You are simply wrong, as a tank there is not much you can do on your own. He can land amazing shatters but if there is no dps to follow up, then what? Awareness and gamesense won't get you that far, in the end, you can't win 1v6 as tank, simple as that.

    And what arguments is flawed. You have yet to tell me. I play support, with about 2k heal/min (far above avarage), and I communicate and call shots alot. I also swap to other support characters if needed, even to tanks in a few cases. WHAT CAN I POSSIBLY DO MORE? I had 3kheal/min games, even with that, it doesn't help when my team is potatoes. There is LITTERALLY nothing more I can do.

  20. #10160
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    You are simply wrong, as a tank there is not much you can do on your own. He can land amazing shatters but if there is no dps to follow up, then what? Awareness and gamesense won't get you that far, in the end, you can't win 1v6 as tank, simple as that.

    And what arguments is flawed. You have yet to tell me. I play support, with about 2k heal/min (far above avarage), and I communicate and call shots alot. I also swap to other support characters if needed, even to tanks in a few cases. WHAT CAN I POSSIBLY DO MORE? I had 3kheal/min games, even with that, it doesn't help when my team is potatoes. There is LITTERALLY nothing more I can do.
    Might as well just stop. There is no convincing either of you at this point. He/she will just post another snippet reply and come off as an egotistical brat while not actually providing any kind of real response. His/her only argument is that people are where they should be and all is right with the world. That may be true, but he/she is still not posting any real proof as to why that is.
    Just let it go and move on. No reason getting a headache over it.

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