So how are your games going lately? [megathread]

[Thirza]

We still lost. Obviously, they were the better team, with 2-2-2 composition etc BUT I did absolutely everything I could possibly do, and my team was hot garbage, WHAT ELSE could I POSSIBLY DO and HOW is this loss somehow MY fault?

2yo trying to have the last word of being told to stop throwing a tantrum.

This is precisely why I take my valuable time to respond to posts in forums concerning my various hobbies.

Look at the two of you, you are bullies, you belittle people here, I'm sure you do it in this game I love as well.

My intention here was to not let bullies encourage each other and to help people that needed it, but even the official forums are more open to that so with some self control this will be the last post you get.

[Battlebeard]

Lol I'm literally done with you.

Yeah, you back away from the argument and insult me with your quotes. You got angry and personal, you sir, lost the debate. I stand the winner.

[Kharadin]

Hey look I kept arguing with a guy who doesn't care about my position I must be the winner! Also my mommy said so! Yeah I'm the best genji there ever was!

Okay buddy.

[Battlebeard]

Okay buddy.

I honestly want to talk to you, like an actual conversation, cause of all people I met on the planet, I never dispised anyone as much as you. Your ignorance is baffling and I don't think you are a kid either. You throw insult after insult and exaggurations and misinterpetation after another and somehow see yourself as the bigger man here. I am stunned how you work as a human being and how you handle discussions. I am amazed how you function in the real world, and this is not meant as an insult really, I am simply fascinated how people like you function.

In this entire thread I have written calmly, organized and respectfully, regardless how much I disagree and you still throw your made up quotes at me, I just don't understand that after doing this, you STILL think you are handling this discussion maturely and properly. Baffling.

[Kharadin]

I literally just told you that I can't possibly improve because I believe nonsensical things like that and now I've said I'm also trying to engage you in actual debate, because I'm both disingenuous and I also have more patience than you for lying and refusing to read posts. BTW I WON THE ARGUMENT.

Okay buddy.

[Battlebeard]

Okay buddy.

Yeah, you are a lost cause and I honestly start to think you never even played Overwatch. You can't have put many hours into the game with your poor understanding how games actually work. Or you simply don't understand basics of like... life.

If the avarage guy heal 10k and I heal 30k, I am three times better than him and has done my part, flawlessly. Nothing more I can do. You could explain this at a kindergarden and they would understand this, but not you. Or you simply enjoy trolling and insulting others so much that you don't even try to read and understand what's written.

Or you simply don't understand how in this case healing works. You don't see how close 30k is to the absolute maximum of humanly possible healing you can do. "You could have healed 40k", no, that is litterally impossible in this short amount of time, even for the best healer in the entire world.

I think you need to research numbers and avarage stats etc, might be as simple as that.

[Kharadin]

I WIN U DONT UNDERSTAND LIFE I HEALED SO MUCH I CAN'T DO MORE REEEEEEEEE despite the fact that demonstrably people at higher SRs play better than me but I'm going to ignore that because I WON THE ARGUMENT AHAHAHAHA U DONT EVEN PLAY OVERWATCH I AM PRO GENGU

Dude you're sure giving me a good telling. I bet if your teams were better you'd be t500 gengu main.

[Battlebeard]

Dude you're sure giving me a good telling. I bet if your teams were better you'd be t500 gengu main.

Again, you do not understand how numbers work in this game and you need to research statistics to get a clue.

And have I ever mentioned Genji? I never touched the hero.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude you're sure giving me a good telling. I bet if your teams were better you'd be t500 gengu main.

I already also told you that I DO have two accounts close to 3500 (masters) that I play actively on and never derank from.

Let me ask you this, and please, have the balls to give a straight real answer: If I really was a platinum player, WHY HAVE I NOT DERANKED FROM MY 3400 ACCOUNTS after HUNDREDS of games on them?

[Kharadin]

I know how things work! Listen to me! I am clever and flawless and I should be t500!
Also why won't you listen to all the random shit I make up about my t500 friends and my 12 accounts all in different SRs that I play IDENTICALLY BTW.

Okay buddy.

[Battlebeard]

Okay buddy.

Yeah, I didn't expect you to know how to answer that, cause I just shattered your entire perception. The answer you looked for was this: You are not a plat player, or else your diamond accounts would eventually drop down to plat as well.

Then you say: "Well if you are diamond on two accounts, why isn't your main diamond too" and this is what this entire discussion has been about. Cause it's crazy hard to climb compared to dropping, as you lose more SR than you gain. And that teammates does infact keep me down, because platinum is hell. This has been the entire thread and this is what you have not understood.

You got so owned when I crushed your logic with my diamond accounts that instead of admitting you were wrong, you make these immature quotes and call me a liar etc.

[Kharadin]

Some more inane ramblings.

Since you're being so persistent let me reward you with a fun little puzzle. If you really are right you'll be able to solve it immediately and blow my mind.

When you start a competitive game of Overwatch you are matched with and against people in a similar SR to yourself, right? Right.
This means the pool of players you play with and against all come from the same distribution, over many games this will average to a Gaussian distribution centred on your SR (please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution for more information). This means your opponents will take on this average (there's 6 btw) and your team will too (there's 5 of them), you are now the only independent variable. If you play to the average SR, this means your games will generally be entirely random, and you should net a 50% winrate. If you play better, your teams average ability will be higher, you will win more often than lose. The inverse is also true, if you play poorly, you will lose more often, your SR will go down.

From this it follows that over a large enough number of games to approximate your pool of peers to a normal distribution, your ability will be the only determining factor as it is the only constant (or inconstant if you're unable to play at a consistent skill level! ) when deciding the outcome of your games.

Now tell me, from these fundamental assumptions and the logic that follows, how does your ability to climb depend on your teammates?

Acceptable answers: Correctly identify flawed initial assumptions. Correctly identify incorrect or inconsistent logic.
Unacceptable answers: Anecdotes, random insistence on being correct, shouting about T500 friends who think playing Rein in plat is hard.

I'll give you a mark out of ten after you've given it a try, okay buddy?

[Battlebeard]

Since you're being so persistent let me reward you with a fun little puzzle. If you really are right you'll be able to solve it immediately and blow my mind.

When you start a competitive game of Overwatch you are matched with and against people in a similar SR to yourself, right? Right.
This means the pool of players you play with and against all come from the same distribution, over many games this will average to a Gaussian distribution centred on your SR (please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution for more information). This means your opponents will take on this average (there's 6 btw) and your team will too (there's 5 of them), you are now the only independent variable. If you play to the average SR, this means your games will generally be entirely random, and you should net a 50% winrate. If you play better, your teams average ability will be higher, you will win more often than lose. The inverse is also true, if you play poorly, you will lose more often, your SR will go down.

From this it follows that over a large enough number of games to approximate your pool of peers to a normal distribution, your ability will be the only determining factor as it is the only constant (or inconstant if you're unable to play at a consistent skill level! ) when deciding the outcome of your games.

Now tell me, from these fundamental assumptions and the logic that follows, how does your ability to climb depend on your teammates?

Acceptable answers: Correctly identify flawed initial assumptions. Correctly identify incorrect or inconsistent logic.
Unacceptable answers: Anecdotes, random insistence on being correct, shouting about T500 friends who think playing Rein in plat is hard.

I'll give you a mark out of ten after you've given it a try, okay buddy?

Yes, in theory, you should have about a 50% winrate and I do, infact I am at about 55-60%. But since you lose significally more sr from a loss than you gain from a win makes you need about 70-75% to climb. I am in no risk of deranking but since i dont have 70% wins i dont climb either.

There is a difference in skill at plat and diamond, i play in both, but the difference between 2800 and 3300 is not insane and aimwise etc its fairly similar. The difference comes to communication and team comps, which are better in diamond. Now as a Moira/Mercy player who can play every other support too (except ana) i am limited to picks. If i played dps i cpuld maybe affect the game more but a support cant do that many crazy things outside of healing alot. A 3300 moira (me) is not enough to win the game at 2800. Maybe a mcree or genji could but not a support. It comes down to luck with teammates.

All I can do is my best, and do what I can. How good am I? Cross my heart, I am mid diamond, 3300-3400, and i have two accounts who with fresh placements placed there and I think that is correct. Why cant I climb on my main when I know im 500sr better than what it says? Why cant i climb when i give my all, which is enough to maintain diamond? What possible answer is it other than bad luck with teammates?

[Eapoe]

Since you're being so persistent let me reward you with a fun little puzzle. If you really are right you'll be able to solve it immediately and blow my mind.

When you start a competitive game of Overwatch you are matched with and against people in a similar SR to yourself, right? Right.
This means the pool of players you play with and against all come from the same distribution, over many games this will average to a Gaussian distribution centred on your SR (please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution for more information). This means your opponents will take on this average (there's 6 btw) and your team will too (there's 5 of them), you are now the only independent variable. If you play to the average SR, this means your games will generally be entirely random, and you should net a 50% winrate. If you play better, your teams average ability will be higher, you will win more often than lose. The inverse is also true, if you play poorly, you will lose more often, your SR will go down.

From this it follows that over a large enough number of games to approximate your pool of peers to a normal distribution, your ability will be the only determining factor as it is the only constant (or inconstant if you're unable to play at a consistent skill level! ) when deciding the outcome of your games.

Now tell me, from these fundamental assumptions and the logic that follows, how does your ability to climb depend on your teammates?

Acceptable answers: Correctly identify flawed initial assumptions. Correctly identify incorrect or inconsistent logic.
Unacceptable answers: Anecdotes, random insistence on being correct, shouting about T500 friends who think playing Rein in plat is hard.

I'll give you a mark out of ten after you've given it a try, okay buddy?

Straight from the source, fresh off the tap:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...5504371#post-3

Kaplan himself shows variables that points out flaws in your absolutist argument.

[Kharadin]

Yes, in theory, you should have about a 50% winrate and I do, infact I am at about 55-60%. But since you lose significally more sr from a loss than you gain from a win makes you need about 70-75% to climb. I am in no risk of deranking but since i dont have 70% wins i dont climb either.

There is a difference in skill at plat and diamond, i play in both, but the difference between 2800 and 3300 is not insane and aimwise etc its fairly similar. The difference comes to communication and team comps, which are better in diamond. Now as a Moira/Mercy player who can play every other support too (except ana) i am limited to picks. If i played dps i cpuld maybe affect the game more but a support cant do that many crazy things outside of healing alot. A 3300 moira (me) is not enough to win the game at 2800. Maybe a mcree or genji could but not a support. It comes down to luck with teammates.

All I can do is my best, and do what I can. How good am I? Cross my heart, I am mid diamond, 3300-3400, and i have two accounts who with fresh placements placed there and I think that is correct. Why cant I climb on my main when I know im 500sr better than what it says? Why cant i climb when i give my all, which is enough to maintain diamond? What possible answer is it other than bad luck with teammates?

So you agree then that my premise holds and you are the only independent variable? Good, I'm glad we agree.

- - - Updated - - -

Straight from the source, fresh off the tap:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...5504371#post-3

Kaplan himself shows variables that points out flaws in your absolutist argument.

If you're gonna use a fairly long post as evidence of something perhaps you should highlight the relevant quote and explain how that disagrees with my point.

[Battlebeard]

So you agree then that my premise holds and you are the only independent variable? Good, I'm glad we agree.

You intepreter quite freely. I never said that. What I mean is that EVERY player is the variable, and that the game can't be won by me alone. If performance could be meassure in a scale of 1-10, and I perform 9/10 a game and my teammates perform 5/10 in the game. YES, I could be 10/10 myself, but it's OBVIOUSLY more my teams fault for only being at 5/10. If there are 5 people at 50% and one at 90% performance, then it's OBVIOUSLY not the 90% performance guys fault, it's the lower performing peoples fault.

HOW can you still not get it? I litterally cannot explain this more clearly.

[Kharadin]

You intepreter quite freely. I never said that. What I mean is that EVERY player is the variable, and that the game can't be won by me alone. If performance could be meassure in a scale of 1-10, and I perform 9/10 a game and my teammates perform 5/10 in the game. YES, I could be 10/10 myself, but it's OBVIOUSLY more my teams fault for only being at 5/10. If there are 5 people at 50% and one at 90% performance, then it's OBVIOUSLY not the 90% performance guys fault, it's the lower performing peoples fault.

HOW can you still not get it? I litterally cannot explain this more clearly.

Okay, so you disagree but you do not provide any basis for where my logic breaks down or my initial assumptions are incorrect. That's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "LALALA I'M ALWAYS PLAYING BETTER THAN EVERYONE IT CAN'T BE MY FAULT".

If you'd like to continue this discussion further please highlight the in my previous post that demonstrates why you and only you are the lone independent variable, showing where it fails in some manner or another. Until you can do this, I am uninterested in listening to your anecdotes about soloing teams as Moira and screeching at your teammates that you have 5 gold medals and that they suck etc. etc.

[Battlebeard]

Okay, so you disagree but you do not provide any basis for where my logic breaks down or my initial assumptions are incorrect. That's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "LALALA I'M ALWAYS PLAYING BETTER THAN EVERYONE IT CAN'T BE MY FAULT".

If you'd like to continue this discussion further please highlight the in my previous post that demonstrates why you and only you are the lone independent variable, showing where it fails in some manner or another. Until you can do this, I am uninterested in listening to your anecdotes about soloing teams as Moira and screeching at your teammates that you have 5 gold medals and that they suck etc. etc.

I never screech at anyone nor bring up gold medals. I only brought it up here as a brief example, since I had more elimination medals than our actual dps. The point was simply that it's easy to see in a game who performs well and who underperforms. There are plenty of sites where you can check stats for damage and healing etc, to get pure numbers. But more than numbers, I am used to the gameplay style of Diamond and with the perspective of two ranks and an SR span of about 1000 (from the lowest plats to highst diamonds) so I find it quite easy to see whos doing good and whos bad. Its not rocket science to see whos good.

I never said I was godlike or GM or anything. I am a fairly good at this game, skillwise mid diamond close to Masters than to Plat, and for that reason, I am basically always the best player when I play on my main in plat. There are sometimes others in my situation but overall, I always perform well.

You say "lalala im better etc" but the truth isn't that far off. I am normally a humble guy but here, since I take this very seriously, I actually DO play better than basically everyone else, and it reall isn't my fault. Would make sense, since i already told you countless times I also play in diamond and have that skill and perspective to compare with.

[Freighter]

When you start a competitive game of Overwatch you are matched with and against people in a similar SR to yourself, right? Right.

The SR system doesn't measure skill though. It only measures your rating. There's huge differences between players on the same SR in skill levels. They need to like crank the personal performance influence on your SR up like 100 times or more, not remove it like they did. Best they could do is make you able to lose SR even if you win and get SR even if you lose, based on your performance.

[rarhyx]

Best they could do is make you able to lose SR even if you win and get SR even if you lose, based on your performance.

yes please
I don't see why I should gain sr if I have for example a K: D Ratio of 2:18 or way less heal as a mercy than the roadhog/mei on the team

[Eapoe]

So you agree then that my premise holds and you are the only independent variable? Good, I'm glad we agree.

- - - Updated - - -



If you're gonna use a fairly long post as evidence of something perhaps you should highlight the relevant quote and explain how that disagrees with my point.

You need to read the entire post as there is no paraphrasing. It is Jeff Kaplan’s own words of just a few, emphasis on few, of the ways MMR works. It goes over that it is not based purely on SR, even though that does play a part in the equation.
He states, while keeping parts hidden, how part of MMR works and the entire post is about that. The entire article is about MMR, not one small part of it. Kaplan’s own words are why I state it’s not as black and white as you and Thirza make it out to be.