1. #10661
    Over 9000! Freighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    You win, you climb. You lose, you fall. You win more than you lose you will still climb, you won’t have some computer system telling you that because in scenario A you healed less than this other person so you gain 10 points, and in this other game you healed less than this other person so you gain 20. Or if you do gain more, you might not have had the same death prevention or damage as someone else, so you gain less. It’s not straight forward and even Blizzard won’t come clean about how it exactly works.
    Personal performance stop once you go past diamond. The main issue with the system is the disparate difference in skill of people at the same SR. Another big problem with it is the matchmaking, I've had fucking gold players in my master games somehow.
    Last edited by Freighter; 2019-10-23 at 09:19 AM.

  2. #10662
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    I don’t always agree with Eric, but the last few days it has come across that people are just posting things to aggravate and troll him. It started with multiple people, Thirza and others, stating all he needs to do is admit he’s bad and work on getting better and he will climb. Now these people are telling him you can’t climb and you just get out with people of equal level and he should accept it.
    Now, as stated, I don’t always agree with Eric and I do recognize learning your faults and playing better. That said, the SR system is jacked up and I much prefer a ladder system.
    You win, you climb. You lose, you fall. You win more than you lose you will still climb, you won’t have some computer system telling you that because in scenario A you healed less than this other person so you gain 10 points, and in this other game you healed less than this other person so you gain 20. Or if you do gain more, you might not have had the same death prevention or damage as someone else, so you gain less. It’s not straight forward and even Blizzard won’t come clean about how it exactly works.
    I don't see how any of that invalidates the fact that if you get good you will climb. Yeah, for sure, the area between gold and plat takes time to climb out of as I've said a thousand times before. It's particularly true of high plat (like, 2850ish I'd say but that's just from experience) to 3k but that's not because you have to carry, it just means you have to be good consistently. If anything, inconsistency is the trademark of plat and gold players, that's why they all think they're gods who deserve to be in higher ELOs because they ignore their bad games and blame their teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freighter View Post
    Personal performance stop once you go past diamond. The main issue with the system is the disparate difference in skill of people at the same SR. Another big problem with it is the matchmaking, I've had fucking gold players in my master games somehow.
    I'm not sure I'd agree with disparate skill at the same SR necessarily, I guess it depends on your SR, down with the carbon tiers below 3k it's entirely reasonable to be playing with people who just don't care as much as you do and so have less game knowledge but potentially better mechanics, or something else that gets them to their SR.

    On top of that people can just have off days, or like me decide to binge Overwatch with a hangover which is never good for my SR.

    Autopiloting is another offence of plat players, sometimes I'll play Doom and notice I can get away with dumbass risky plays in one game and then for the next completely forget that I shouldn't be allowed to do that and accidentally feed away the first team fight.

    I'm interested in that matchmaking bug though, do you play at off-peak times or something? I know the matchmaker increases the SR range over certain time-in-queue breakpoints which affects GM+ players particularly, I've seen T100 players get matched with low masters fairly often because of queue times and that skill range is gonna absolutely trump anything you could possibly see at diamond or below. So I could expect to see stuff like that if say, you're solo queuing DPS during off-peak hours.

  3. #10663
    Herald of the Titans Katie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    I don't see how any of that invalidates the fact that if you get good you will climb. Yeah, for sure, the area between gold and plat takes time to climb out of as I've said a thousand times before. It's particularly true of high plat (like, 2850ish I'd say but that's just from experience) to 3k but that's not because you have to carry, it just means you have to be good consistently. If anything, inconsistency is the trademark of plat and gold players, that's why they all think they're gods who deserve to be in higher ELOs because they ignore their bad games and blame their teams.

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    I'm not sure I'd agree with disparate skill at the same SR necessarily, I guess it depends on your SR, down with the carbon tiers below 3k it's entirely reasonable to be playing with people who just don't care as much as you do and so have less game knowledge but potentially better mechanics, or something else that gets them to their SR.

    On top of that people can just have off days, or like me decide to binge Overwatch with a hangover which is never good for my SR.

    Autopiloting is another offence of plat players, sometimes I'll play Doom and notice I can get away with dumbass risky plays in one game and then for the next completely forget that I shouldn't be allowed to do that and accidentally feed away the first team fight.

    I'm interested in that matchmaking bug though, do you play at off-peak times or something? I know the matchmaker increases the SR range over certain time-in-queue breakpoints which affects GM+ players particularly, I've seen T100 players get matched with low masters fairly often because of queue times and that skill range is gonna absolutely trump anything you could possibly see at diamond or below. So I could expect to see stuff like that if say, you're solo queuing DPS during off-peak hours.
    That's not a bug I think. xD I think it's because they queued with someone who was in high diamond but not yet in masters. It's stupid you can queue with people 1000 rating apart for diamond, once you hit masters you can only queue 500 rating apart. I get silvers sometimes in my games due to people queuing together with them in very high plat or they have fallen down from diamond but not deranked yet and I am low diamond. It's like 90% chance for the team who has the silver player to lose because they are so bad. If they are tank it's 100% loss for the team who has them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It happened just now, silver on dps AND tank. They played so stupid that it was impossible to win. Mccree does high noon and I put up field on baptiste and they just goes out of the field and died instead of staying in it.
    Last edited by Katie N; 2019-10-23 at 12:42 PM.

  4. #10664
    Warchief Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    You need to learn to read then, because nowhere in that post did I say making mistakes
    constituted deserving of a ban, nor have I ever.
    Eh, I may have exaggerated on part about mistakes. Fair enough, I don't want to hunt down posts to try and prove it, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    The entire point of the game, even fucking JEFF KAPLAN himself, has stated that you actually do NOT
    want to just play one hero. That switching comps is the entire point of the game, hence why they never
    made it so that once you pick a hero you're stuck with them.
    I'd argue that's the Overwatch team grossly overestimating how attached people get to certain play styles than people intentionally going against the point of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Someone who one tricks does no one, especially not their team any favors. Because once that person
    gets hard countered, they become an immediate detriment and handicap to the team. So if they lose,
    that person was most likely the cause. Immediately picking a hero and then refusing to acquiesce to
    your team if they ask nicely for you to swap, is not being a team player. It's being a selfish prick.
    I've actually refused to swap to a different hero in comp myself. It's not always being selfish; in fact outside of one tricking (Which is again not even against the rules, Blizzard's inconsistent rules aside) it's often because the people who ask are not asking nicely. They're angry and looking for someone to blame. It's far easier to assign blame to everyone else than it is to check one's ego at the door and do some introspection mid-game. Hell, I've been guilty of it myself before. On the other hand, most of my experience comes from people asking me to swap to a different support hero, from Mercy or Moira/Brigitte to Ana/Lucio or Zen. I cannot play those heroes, and you do not want me being a wet noodle floundering around and doing literally nothing because I can't hit anything. I tried, I can't do it. I imagine others feel the same, and are probably tired of having to hear/see people ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Now I don't know why apustus got banned, but if he was doing any of the above, which would mean
    not being a team player and being a selfish tool, then yes, said poster deserves the ban. OW is a team
    based game. You don't wanna be a team player, then get out and play something else. Simple as that.
    I'm not sure this applies, but I always believe that Overwatch competitive should never have released. But since it did, the dev team did both the players and themselves a disservice by not making six-stacks a requirement. I can think of several hot button topics over the years that would have been solved if people played in regular teams. But being a team player doesn't mean bowing to your team because they said so, no one on your team knows your capabilities better than you do. If someone asked me to play something I can't, I'm probably not going to do so because I know what I'm capable of. They don't.

  5. #10665
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    It happened just now, silver on dps AND tank. They played so stupid that it was impossible to win. Mccree does high noon and I put up field on baptiste and they just goes out of the field and died instead of staying in it.
    Silver's gonna silver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    snip
    On top of the whole not switching because you're better on certain heroes thing, also bear in mind that it's entirely okay just to disagree with whoever thinks you should switch. I can usually tell when I'm making no impact or doing no work and will switch of my own accord if I feel it's appropriate.

    I don't see why people in the same SR bracket as me think for some reason that their opinion is more valid than anyone else's in the match, if someone wants me to switch and I don't want to, whelp, guess you're shit out of luck because I'm the one behind this keyboard.

  6. #10666
    Over 9000! Freighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I'm not sure this applies, but I always believe that Overwatch competitive should never have released. But since it did, the dev team did both the players and themselves a disservice by not making six-stacks a requirement.
    The mode would have been dead at launch. Very few have 5 others to play with every time they want to play. I don't want to be confined to specific times when everyone I play with can play and even then, people would be dropping out and we'd be unable to play again. I want to be able to play when I want to, not when others can and want to as a group.
    Last edited by Freighter; 2019-10-24 at 09:30 AM.

  7. #10667
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    You have a very selective memory.
    No it's all right there. You clearly must have dementia or some form of Alzheimer's if you don't remember
    your flame posts.

    It's also interesting that you'd assert it's impossible to climb solo especially as heal/tank and then refuse the advice
    of someone who consistently does that "impossible" feat.
    In my experience it is, but who is this person you're referring to? You? The only person who has directly offered
    advice is you, and considering how toxic you are, it is 100% unwelcome, and because it's coming from you, I
    wouldn't believe anything you say.

    It's also more interesting that you'd go on, in the same post, to assert a healer is most likely throwing
    by picking Brig with no other contextual information.
    I know reading isn't your strong suit, and that it must be very hard for you, but nowhere did I say that
    playing Brig was the sole reason for the ban, nor did I say playing as that hero merited one. How he
    chose to play her, and his attitude in the game and playing her, if negatively and selfishly, yes, merits
    a ban.

    Furthermore, you completely glossed over Freighter, who also doubted that said poster was banned for just
    playing Brig.

    I love your posts.
    I know, you're mesmerized at the mental gymnastics I run around you.

    I wouldn't even take it that far. I can play whatever hero I want, if that means I'm more likely to lose then fuck it, that's on me. OW players need to stop being authoritarian dickwads.
    Here's an attitude of someone who has no business playing a team game. ^

    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I'd argue that's the Overwatch team grossly overestimating how attached people get to certain play styles than people intentionally going against the point of the game.
    Okay, I can see that being a fair assessment.

    I've actually refused to swap to a different hero in comp myself. It's not always being selfish; in fact outside of one tricking (Which is again not even against the rules, Blizzard's inconsistent rules aside) it's often because the people who ask are not asking nicely. They're angry and looking for someone to blame. It's far easier to assign blame to everyone else than it is to check one's ego at the door and do some introspection mid-game. Hell, I've been guilty of it myself before. On the other hand, most of my experience comes from people asking me to swap to a different support hero, from Mercy or Moira/Brigitte to Ana/Lucio or Zen. I cannot play those heroes, and you do not want me being a wet noodle floundering around and doing literally nothing because I can't hit anything. I tried, I can't do it. I imagine others feel the same, and are probably tired of having to hear/see people ask.
    Okay, perhaps saying it is always a selfish act is a bit overzealous. And I can see someone refusing to do so
    if asked aggressively by some asshole. And yes, if you're bad with certain heroes, and you're asked if you
    could play them, I'd say you should communicate with the team by saying you aren't that good with them.

    However, it's still not great to one trick. That really benefits no one and is against the core mechanics of
    the game.

    I'm not sure this applies, but I always believe that Overwatch competitive should never have released. But since it did, the dev team did both the players and themselves a disservice by not making six-stacks a requirement. I can think of several hot button topics over the years that would have been solved if people played in regular teams. But being a team player doesn't mean bowing to your team because they said so, no one on your team knows your capabilities better than you do. If someone asked me to play something I can't, I'm probably not going to do so because I know what I'm capable of. They don't.
    100% agree.
    Last edited by ThatsOurEric; 2019-10-26 at 06:09 AM.

  8. #10668
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    In my experience it is, but who is this person you're referring to? You? The only person who has directly offered
    advice is you, and considering how toxic you are, it is 100% unwelcome, and because it's coming from you, I
    wouldn't believe anything you say.
    Of course, because believing me would ruin your lifelong narrative of "I'm not the problem, it's everyone else!".

    I know reading isn't your strong suit, and that it must be very hard for you, but nowhere did I say that
    playing Brig was the sole reason for the ban, nor did I say playing as that hero merited one. How he
    chose to play her, and his attitude in the game and playing her, if negatively and selfishly, yes, merits
    a ban.
    Indeed, in your opinion you must do exactly what your team asks otherwise you're selfish. Because your team is some omniscient being with perfect understanding of the game and they'd never ask you to do something stupid, right?

    mental gymnastics
    I'll just leave this here. Mental gymnastics indeed.

    Here's an attitude of someone who has no business playing a team game. ^
    Don't be upset, remember attitudes like mine help you justify blaming your team for keeping you hardstuck in gold.

  9. #10669
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Of course, because believing me would ruin your lifelong narrative of "I'm not the problem, it's everyone else!".
    No you don't understand (as per usual).

    No one wants advice from another person who has been nothing short of toxic towards them.

    Therego even if you were #1 in Overwatch, because you're toxic, I would never want any advice
    from you.

    Since you seem so desperate for my attention, be less toxic, and maybe I'll be your friend. How's that?

    Indeed, in your opinion you must do exactly what your team asks otherwise you're selfish. Because your team
    is some omniscient being with perfect understanding of the game and they'd never ask you to do something stupid,
    right?
    In most circumstances, it's better to work with the group than to go in with a "my way and to hell with anyone else"
    attitude. That's already being detrimental.

    No, the team isn't always correct. But I'm mostly talking about instalockers who say, will go Torb on attack in a map
    that doesn't favor him, against a comp that heavily counters him, and when asked nicely to pick a different hero,
    said player is a selfish prick who doesn't help the team.


    I'll just leave this here. Mental gymnastics indeed.
    It's best you do, I've embarrassed you enough.

    remember attitudes like mine justify keeping people hardstuck
    At least you're admitting to being the problem!

  10. #10670
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Since you seem so desperate for my attention, be less toxic, and maybe I'll be your friend. How's that?
    Not quite, you're merely making the posts I fundamentally disagree with and thus am compelled to voice such disagreement. Bear in mind I believe your attitude to be far more toxic than the rude words you seem so offended by. But it's okay, I'll stop calling you names and just stick with the disagreement so we might stay a little more on topic.

    In most circumstances, it's better to work with the group than to go in with a "my way and to hell with anyone else"
    attitude. That's already being detrimental.
    Sure, we can agree there. My only gripe being that the moment one person says "x you should switch" usually leads to a bandwagon effect because people want to blame someone. If that happens, I'd sooner dip out of comms than cooperate with asshats, whether or not that contributes to a loss rather than a win is immaterial to me. Fun is more important than the ego of asshats.


    At least you're admitting to being the problem!
    Mental gymnastics/10

    I'm interested in what you meant when you amended that quote of mine though. "Attitudes like mine justify keeping people hardstuck"? So, if you percieve someone as toxic then they should be hardstuck?

  11. #10671
    Sure, we can agree there. My only gripe being that the moment one person says "x you should switch" usually leads to a bandwagon effect because people want to blame someone. If that happens, I'd sooner dip out of comms than cooperate with asshats, whether or not that contributes to a loss rather than a win is immaterial to me. Fun is more important than the ego of asshats.
    Unless the entire team goes full jackass on you, it's never okay to throw a game because of one asshole. I've had
    teammates shit on someone, only to tell them to shut up and then ask said person nicely if they could, as it would
    help out a lot, blah blah blah. If they still don't, well that sucks, but I don't go off on them. Sometimes being asked
    nicely works and they do, and lo and behold, the game changed because of it.

  12. #10672
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Unless the entire team goes full jackass on you, it's never okay to throw a game because of one asshole. I've had
    teammates shit on someone, only to tell them to shut up and then ask said person nicely if they could, as it would
    help out a lot, blah blah blah. If they still don't, well that sucks, but I don't go off on them. Sometimes being asked
    nicely works and they do, and lo and behold, the game changed because of it.
    Hence my mentioning of the bandwagon occurring. If one person's being an asshole it's an easy mute but if I'm doing work/having impact and several people demand I switch because they don't know how to identify the problems they're having then that's when I dip the fuck out.

    Though I don't agree that dropping comms is throwing, more often than not comms isn't being used constructively anyway and if dropping comms means I'm not being pestered incessantly chances are I will perform better, too. If other people are getting tilted because they think I should switch and thus performing poorly themselves, that's on them.

  13. #10673
    Warchief Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Though I don't agree that dropping comms is throwing, more often than not comms isn't being used constructively anyway and if dropping comms means I'm not being pestered incessantly chances are I will perform better, too. If other people are getting tilted because they think I should switch and thus performing poorly themselves, that's on them.
    Yeah, I tried voice chat a few times, and I play worse with it. It's not useful at my rank, and is incredibly distracting. So I don't join anymore; it's not worth making me play worse just to hear people whining. I can whine just fine on my own.

  14. #10674
    Over 9000! Freighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Yeah, I tried voice chat a few times, and I play worse with it. It's not useful at my rank, and is incredibly distracting. So I don't join anymore; it's not worth making me play worse just to hear people whining. I can whine just fine on my own.
    Guess you didn't listen to the soundclip I uploaded some time ago. I got an ulti off on mei but died and people just seemed to ignore it and I was telling them to kill them. Zenyatta on the team starts screaming I was walled off you fucking idiot or something like it on voice.

  15. #10675
    So just did my placements for all 3 roles.

    I got:
    Damage: 2785
    Support: 2558
    Tank: 2268

    During the old system I would most of the time play support, but maybe I should play dps to get higher ranking?

  16. #10676
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Yeah, I tried voice chat a few times, and I play worse with it. It's not useful at my rank, and is incredibly distracting. So I don't join anymore; it's not worth making me play worse just to hear people whining. I can whine just fine on my own.
    Legit. I've found that playing in a duo though that vc for some reason immediately becomes useful most of the time, people start calling and shit. Though this is around 2800SR or so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Explicit Teemo Nudes View Post
    So just did my placements for all 3 roles.

    I got:
    Damage: 2785
    Support: 2558
    Tank: 2268

    During the old system I would most of the time play support, but maybe I should play dps to get higher ranking?
    I have a feeling your off-roles MMR are initialized near your main SR, since the old system didn't look at roles at all it starts you off where it think you might be, so if this is your first foray into role-queue take this all with a grain of salt. My DPS SR started at 2900 and tanked the immediately down to 2000 or so until I'd practiced a little and brought it back up.

  17. #10677
    Im seeing a bigger and bigger trend of people playing tank/healer(mostly tanks) without the intention of being a tank that fits enemy comp. Mainly its both tanks refusing to play any shieldtank whatsoever.

    Last game I was in a team like this were the enemy had a junkrat & soldier. Our tanks? Zarya/hog & hamster. Refused to pick shieldtank.

    Why? Shield tank is boring. Queue is long as dps, so they pick tank to play "dps tanks", and "relax its just a game".

    I get it, its just a game. But in comp? come on, atleast try to adapt to yours and the enemy team.

  18. #10678
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Why? Shield tank is boring. Queue is long as dps, so they pick tank to play "dps tanks", and "relax its just a game".

    I get it, its just a game. But in comp? come on, atleast try to adapt to yours and the enemy team.
    They made sigma's shield feel so clunky, I mean I get it. The no shield shit stops in high masters so better just get used to most tanks being unwilling imo.

    2/2/2 is shit, every game feels the same and like a grind, healers are the least impactful they have ever been to a match outcome, the team with the best tank + 1 good DPS wins.
    ---
    One tricking Zen on healer role just under GM and people screech and whine about the pick regardless of how well you do, the slightest thing goes wrong they blame you for playing off meta and swear up and down they will avoid you, when they lose to you in the next game, even if you won one one with them before they moan that you were carried.

    This community is terrible, it is a hungry piranha swarm with severe insecurity.
    Last edited by Thirza; 2019-11-05 at 02:39 PM.

  19. #10679
    Things I’ve come to hate:
    Seeing Mercy on my team.
    Seeing DVa on my team.
    Watching my teams Junkrat get out played by the enemy team Junkrat.
    Watching the enemy team walk forward thru our tanks shield nonstop as my team can’t seem to kill anything.
    Outhealing Moira as Ana or Mercy. Unless you have a lot of flankers this is next to impossible. That or I get some of the worst healers playing with me when I am Moira as I outheal all of them.
    Things I still enjoy:
    Not seeing 6 damage in comp is okay.

  20. #10680
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    Placed diamond as tank.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Placed diamond as dps too.

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