Why do hunters seem to be extremely dissatisfied with MM?

[Queen of Hamsters]

I dislike the RNG and that we can no longer move whilst casting Aimed shot. I also miss the cleave of Chimera shot. But I don't mind, I've been MM for the entirety of HFC. The problem is that they made 1 spec a melee one, so that leaves me BM with MM as off-spec. I'm not writing MM off though. I'll be a bit miffed if SV ends up the best spec throughout the expansion...

I also highly dislike the longer GCD for the specs, and that they removed kill shot.

[Chucksauce]

It's an rng debuff spec. They took us from a spec that had an answer to almost every situation( yes we needed to be brought down a peg) to a spec that doesn't have an answer in any situation.

[Flaim]

Because MM is now a caster. No more mobility.

this is what most of the complainers fail to understand.
but the question is how well mm is shifted into that role and i lack the knowledge/experience to judge, because i had no access to beta and cba about pts.

[Divinexve]

Why couldn't they just not change MM in any way shape of form...

[clevin]

So you pick SV or BM. MM is currently designed around not moving frequently, not a complicated thing to understand.

You can't say "pick SV...." and mean it if you're talking to someone who wants to play ranged. That's the problem with making one of our specs melee - you have ONE choice if you want a ranged spec with a pet.

[Mirishka]

You can't say "pick SV...." and mean it if you're talking to someone who wants to play ranged. That's the problem with making one of our specs melee - you have ONE choice if you want a ranged spec with a pet.

MM has a pet again, actually, with LW as a talent option.

[c000]

edit: oops posted in the wrong topic

[Alvito]

You can't say "pick SV...." and mean it if you're talking to someone who wants to play ranged. That's the problem with making one of our specs melee - you have ONE choice if you want a ranged spec with a pet.

You might have missed that the person I was responding to doesn't play MM nor understand how the work now or will in Legion.

[Alvito]

The question this thread is trying to answer is why people are dissatisfied with MM. Not "is there another hunter spec that people might like." Try and keep up.

Which as I stated, before you freaked out, only 1 attack has lost its ability to be cast while moving. The trade of is MM is no longer stuck in place like they currently are now due to sniper training. Im sorry you don't understand the spec and pouted when I pointed it out. You are the one acting like a sleep deprived child all the while offering nothing to the conversation. I wasn't rude, yet when you have even less to add you end up throwing a tantrum.

[Bepples]

Hunters just had it too good in WoD and might be paying the price to some degree moving forward. This will cull the flavor of the month players from their ranks and things will bounce back. You can't have extremely high mobility, offer every buff, have highly valuable defensive cd and be a top dps all at the same time and not lose something moving forward. When it really comes down to it they didn't really lose anything that other classes and specs aren't having taken from them either. All the hunter QQ is just another example of people crying the sky is falling after one drop of rain.

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Good news you still can, you just have to put a shred of thought into it and you can't just bounce around mindlessly. Of course if you were doing that now you would never have sniper training up so you shouldn't be moving too much. They can't channel and move that is it, they still have plenty of instant shots to fill in if and when they do need to move.

Except we DO pay a price.



We are NOT the top DPS. What makes us competitve with those classes above us is our mobility. Our base DPS is lower than theirs but they can't keep up full DPS while moving, so on mechanic-heavy fights hunters pull ahead. That is the real class fantasy of hunters; highly versatile, mobile DPS. Not this garbage that Celestalon came up with in Legion. And that IS balanced. So please quit it with this self-loathing bullshit.

Also, maintaining Sniper Training takes much more thought than just never moving during the vulnerability window (which is the majority of your rotation).

You certainly don't play MM. Because they are punished for moving for more the 3 seconds and then staying still now. Gotta love when people come in and toss in why they think a change is bad having no idea how the class will work or currently works. Talk about adding to the thread.

If you think that losing a +10% damage/crit damage buff is the equivalent to not being able to cast our only on-demand focus dump from which we get a significant portion of our total damage, then clearly YOU don't play MM. This is the same shitty logic that the class designers are using. These are the same people who think focus is irrelevant when you are GCD capped and RPPM is totally deterministic, so good luck getting any informed opinion on hunters out of those clowns.

You also seem to be simultaneously arguing that a) mobility is getting a much-needed nerf and b) mobility is not being nerfed so people are crying over nothing. This is why you can't just throw any half-assed argument at the thread and hope it sticks because you might as well be adding a "cognitive dissonance" disclaimer to your signature.

[Pengalor]

There does seem to be widespread dissatisfaction with the hunter class on beta right now, but there's still plenty of time to fix it. Post your issues in the class feedback thread; Blizzard definitely reads all of the feedback. They just changed Frost Mages based on all of the dissatisfaction with Frozen Orb.

Except it won't be fixed. They said in one of the interviews that mechanical changes are pretty much finished, it's just going to be number tuning now.

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I don't think Hunters should even have much mobility.

That's literally been our entire gimmick. MM is now just a bland caster spec, no flavor to it at all and absolutely no interesting mechanical interactivity. If I wanted to play a bland rotation with no mobility I'd roll a different class.

[Keyimin]

I pvp so movement is kind of required. Anyway stop being such an ass fucktard.

Go ahead and infract me. This guy sucks.

Can we discuss the joys of the missing comma?

"Anyway stop being such an ass fucktard."

Ass fucktard. Brilliant. Thanks for that chuckle

[Norahe]

That's literally been our entire gimmick. MM is now just a bland caster spec, no flavor to it at all and absolutely no interesting mechanical interactivity. If I wanted to play a bland rotation with no mobility I'd roll a different class.

We still have much more mobility than most of the casters don't we (real question, I didn't try all of the casters ont the ptr yet) ?
And LnL adds to that.

What saddens me the most is that we lost the little utility we had aside of our dps tools. (goodbye traps )

[Azortharion]

Pulling SimCraft results to prove a point about DPS in HFC is a joke.

[Keyimin]

The trade of is MM is no longer stuck in place like they currently are now due to sniper training.

Except that you always have a few seconds to move without losing Patient Sniper, so that statement is just wrong.

Stuck in place = not actually being able to use an ability if you move
Not stuck in place = having time to move, else briefly lose a somewhat modest buff, but still being able to use abilities

[Freerunz]

And LnL adds to that.

Mobility is when you want to move, not when you can.

[Alvito]

You were rude and dismissive, I responded in kind. I stick to my answer, which is that hunters have lost mobility, comparing it to how I felt when I played warlock and they lost mobility. Now you're telling me that I don't understand sniper training because apparently you're clairvoyant.

Oh wait, you're not. I do understand sniper training, but I also mostly pvp where you often have to ignore the damage buff in order to stay alive. You decided to assume that you know everything and that my opinion is irrelevant and told me that I had nothing to add to the conversation. When did you decide that you're always right and that you can quickly determine exactly what everyone else is thinking and dismiss their answers as wrong?

Show people some respect and don't assume you know everything. Then you'll get their respect in turn.

You tell someone to fuck off and then bitch about respect that is to damn much

[Sencha]

Waiting on autoshots for RPPM procs is a bad design.

I tried fire mage on ptr and it feels more fun to get procs from crits. You also have a spell and a CD to get crits on demand. Additionally, as you get more and more crit on your stuff, the spec will get more and more powerful.

So waiting for procs on autoshots is just not fun.

[Thursley]

Waiting on autoshots for RPPM procs is a bad design.

I tried fire mage on ptr and it feels more fun to get procs from crits. You also have a spell and a CD to get crits on demand. Additionally, as you get more and more crit on your stuff, the spec will get more and more powerful.

So waiting for procs on autoshots is just not fun.

RPPM scales with haste, so we'll also get more and more powerful as you get better gear. We also have a CD, Trueshot, that guarantees Hunter's Mark procs. If you want/if tuning allows you can take the talent Sentinel to generate Hunter's Mark on demand every 20 seconds too (and it has 2 charges). And if you take Sidewinders (which it seems like we will for now at least) it automatically applies the Vulnerable debuff to every target it hits. Waiting for RPPM procs doesn't seem like it will be that big a problem.

[Norahe]

Mobility is when you want to move, not when you can.

We can still spam our builder and other shots while moving at least
Some casters would kill for that