Munkkys Vengeance Demon Hunter Guide UPDATED 7.3

[MookieRah]

Still doesn’t make them a BIS leggo though. It just means they have a nice niche use.

[Nahela]

Currently with the ring, traits (Torment/Shadowbind/Refractive) account for ~9% of my damage and ~12% of my healing. So roughly a 3% DPS and 4% healing gain. Honestly pretty solid. The buffed refractive is probably the most noticeable. Procrate is super high and frequently softens incoming melees to the tune of ~700k, smoothing out damage even more than before. Probably going to try fishing for 3x Refractive for amusement's sake, would essentially be a relic-based Prydaz at that point with even higher uptime.

[Delimit]

It's like ~4% on single target in the best case (3 shadowbind/torment the weak relics) - which makes it better than anything but AHR if you have that setup. If you had, say, 3 master of shadows relics then it's only 1.5% or so, so it's pretty heavily dependent on T2 for specific valuation.

4% isn't best case. (it's higher)

The biggest problem with the ring, is that it's a ring.

[Munkky]

What is the reasoning behind Runemaster's Pauldrons being top for M+ now? Weren't the considered the worst leg previously?

The shoulders were one of the weakest outside of their niche situations where you would swap them in for specific pulls in M+ as you had to wait for Meta to come off cd and have it line up with your pulls. With the new 4pc, you will be getting meta much more often meaning the use cases for the shoulders are increased exponentially. If you play "properly" in M+, then you will be using Meta extremely often as Meta allows you to pull more mobs. So you already understand why they are good.

[MookieRah]

How much, on average, would you say the 4-set reduces meta’s cd? Obviously it depends on parry rate, but I just want a ballpark figure at an attainable rate.

[Munkky]

Realistically, unless you have incredibly high uptime on Demon Spikes, you won't gain a single meta on any fight in Antorus. Only one fight gives even close to a meta (Aggramar) and the next closest fights give around half or a little over half a meta, the rest give a fraction of a meta. So 4pc is ignorable in raid, atleast below Mythic, which I don't see it changing at all on Mythic offhand.

[Nahela]

I honestly don't feel like the benefit is an 'extra' Meta, but closing the gap between uses is pretty noticeable

[Kvistor]

not even if you start the fight by popping Meta for the ekstra burst?

[Tech614]

not even if you start the fight by popping Meta for the ekstra burst?

Well, considering progression is only a very small amount of play time in the game most of the time you should be popping meta on pull anyways and hopefully math accounts for that. Hell, even on progression some bosses you will want to meta off the start as well.

[Uggrukor]

Hey all, just came back to the game after leaving during EN. Trying to get my gear all setup and focus on the proper stats. Currently I can't get to 20% haste, should I stack as much of it as possible or focus more on Mastery which I have a lot more of?

Thanks

[Munkky]

I honestly don't feel like the benefit is an 'extra' Meta, but closing the gap between uses is pretty noticeable

I understand what the benefit is and I was simply using that as an easy measure. I have notes for how much it can reduce on every fight and the average is closer to 25% of a meta over the full length of the fight, so we're talking maybe 1 min cdr across 5-6+ minutes. In the end, it doesn't even matter.

[Nahela]

I understand what the benefit is and I was simply using that as an easy measure. I have notes for how much it can reduce on every fight and the average is closer to 25% of a meta over the full length of the fight, so we're talking maybe 1 min cdr across 5-6+ minutes. In the end, it doesn't even matter.

I just don't see how you're coming up with that number unless we're talking exceptionally low levels of parry, 0 DS uptime, or sitting on the Meta CD for excessive periods of time; 25% of a Meta is 9 parries. Even on the least beneficial fights I'm seeing ~10-15 parries minimum, with upwards of 40-50 on longer/more beneficial fights. The effect is very noticeable as well, with Meta having roughly a 2 minute CD at any given time.

[Tech614]

I just don't see how you're coming up with that number unless we're talking exceptionally low levels of parry, 0 DS uptime, or sitting on the Meta CD for excessive periods of time; 25% of a Meta is 9 parries. Even on the least beneficial fights I'm seeing ~10-15 parries minimum, with upwards of 40-50 on longer/more beneficial fights. The effect is very noticeable as well, with Meta having roughly a 2 minute CD at any given time.

I don't have the bonus so haven't bothered to test it yet but looking at my numbers even on a very very fast Imonar normal kill in 2:52 I had 15 parries. And he is a slow attacker, with taunt switches.

Felhounds and Coven get out of here, we're talking 50+ on each of those heroic logs. If he is really claiming you won't get an extra meta on those fights I'm not sure where that math is coming from but it doesn't jive with my logs. Aggramar is only 31 on my best log so not sure why he is listing that fight over those. With a long, long fight maybe mythic Aggramar might be an extra meta but not even close to dogs which should be an extra meta on every difficulty until you're killing the fight in sub 2 mins.

So while it may not be worthwhile on taunt switch fights, it's definitely good on at minimum 2 fights in the place.

Also worth noting if we go into full min/max mode even if the set only nets you "10" parries on a fight if you finished that fight with sub 35 seconds on meta you just could of had a full extra meta on the fight so it's not always clear cut and dry. Fight length and when you pop meta matters more then raw amount of cd reduction...

Also my parry numbers are without the 2 piece bonus even, not that I expect it to make that much of a difference.

[Nahela]

The mention of Aggramar is likely due to the hateful strike mechanic. I'm usually getting ~30 parries on his melee and another ~30 on his hateful strikes, so that adds up.

EDIT: I feel misinformation like this is a massive disservice to the community. There's so much theoretical going around that's not backed up with experience and it's frustrating to watch. In a similar vein, the current idea that Riftworld Codex is a 'bad' tanking trinket is just wild and at least partially built entirely on incorrect data.

[Tech614]

The mention of Aggramar is likely due to the hateful strike mechanic. I'm usually getting ~30 parries on his melee and another ~30 on his hateful strikes, so that adds up.

Ah, I completely forgot that exists and didn't look at parries in the log for it. Mostly because it hits like so much of a joke I don't even notice it when tanking on heroic/norm.

[MookieRah]

It goes without saying that it should be ridiculous on High Command. Looking forward to some nice meta uptimes in that encounter.

[Mikafel]

So, in the end, is the 4p good to have even in raid?

[Nahela]

So, in the end, is the 4p good to have even in raid?

Absolutely. Realistically, you're just not gaining much in 'ideal' stats with off-pieces unless you're getting ludicrously high titanforges. Maybe if you options were 2 985s vs. 2 945s. Even in raid in mediocre circumstances I'm seeing the Meta CD pretty regularly down nearly a minute per usage, which is huge. One of the few set bonuses I've used in recent time where you can very easily feel the difference.

[Nahela]

To back up the above with a log, here's my Meta graph from our Felhounds first kill: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=187827

I sat on it a bit towards the end of the fight for emergency purposes, but was able to cast 3 Meta's by the 4 minute mark. Are you always going to see a return that high? No, of course not, but again reiterating the point that the idea the set bonus doesn't give you enough CDR is somewhat absurd.

(As a sidenote, Riftworld Codex is also incredible, despite people using old PTR data showing otherwise)

[Micronetic]

Are you the real Munky?