Beta Key Giveaway Week 3: Winners have been selected!

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  1. #41
    While I am using sims for part of my theorycrafting. My "feelings" aren't really my basis. Actually playing the class and working with several other experienced tanks on that class to see various perspectives and different sides of everything are the basis for my guide and my spreadsheet. I don't care who you are or what you do. I can say I'm the king of England but that means nothing. While yes fallout can heal more (I was a big supporter of it in the beginning and now recommend both talents) many of us prefer Feast for the smoothing. If you go back and read over everything I've talked about and everything that I've done since Alpha when I started to theorycraft the Demon Hunter, you would realize that I have put a lot of effort and time into all of this and didn't just play it once and throw a guide up. My opinions have changed a lot since the beginning and by acting like my "feelings" are what made the guide, you are insulting the past 4 months of work for both myself and the rest of the community here and on the other forums/discord, of which I am active in.

    I know the proc rates for fallout and I understand how haste works in conjunction with all of the abilities. You have to consider the other choices in that row as well. Compared to Soul Rending that gives a good amount of leech for 5 sec every minute plus the two meta cds, vs having around 1 extra Demon Spikes a minute. 5 seconds of pretty much invulnerable plus healing to full or 6 seconds of smoother intake.

    What you stated about felblade doesn't make any sense in this context. It does not effect Demon Spikes at all. Shear is enough to give a Demon Spikes and Immolation Aura also gives 20 pain. I never mentioned anything about Felblade.

    If asked to choose what you want, a mediocre shield you can have 3 times a minute or a cheat death every 3 minutes, meaning you can have 2-3 during progress, 99% of tanks would choose the cheat death. It's between an all around slight surv increase our the potential to save a wipe atleast once a fight. This going based off, usually if a tank dies during progress, it's a wipe. Unless soul barrier gives a massive shield or is used in very specific instances, it will never be chosen by a progression tank.

    Please read all of my material and look over everything I have done on both this forum and the beta forum, as well as the demon hunter discord, before you accuse me of using my feelings.

    Thanks!
    Munkky

  2. #42
    In that case, are you willing to share the following info:

    - Siphon power: what is the formula for Agility increase?
    - Fueled by Pain: what is the proc chance?
    - Fallout: what is the proc chance?

    This would help me to understand the mechanics and abilities better.

    Thanks.

    P.S. England is not the best country to be a King of now :P Brexit
    Last edited by Viggen2012; 2016-07-04 at 07:41 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Viggen2012 View Post
    In that case, are you willing to share the following info:

    - Siphon power: what is the formula for Agility increase?
    - Fueled by Pain: what is the proc chance?
    - Fallout: what is the proc chance?

    This would help me to understand the mechanics and abilities better.

    Thanks.

    P.S. England is not the best country to be a King of now :P Brexit
    Siphon Power - Up to 20% agi based on Magic Damage Taken % health wise. So 1% Health = 1% Agi. It is refreshed if you take magic damage during the duration of Empower Wards. For example, boss does big magic damage, you press Empower Wards <1 second before, get reduced by 20% health, you now have 20% bonus Agility for 10 Seconds, and if it leaves a tick, it is refreshed every time it ticks, so max of 16 second Agi boost.

    Fueled by Pain - Datamined at 1 RPPM. http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=213017/fueled-by-pain

    Fallout - This one is purely through testing as they have not released the info/it hasn't been datamined. Amongst the 4-5 people that tested this the average proc chance was 60%.

    By the way, I have no problem being wrong in any of my calculations. I have been wrong more than once these past few months, but have corrected my mistakes and now preach some things that others have taught me. If you can prove me wrong on anything and provide proof, I will be more than happy to adjust my guide/spreadsheet for this new info and will spread the info out to the rest of the community. I am not so worried about the size of my Epeen that I will withhold information from the community, as the whole point of making this guide and putting this time and effort into it was to aid everyone.

  4. #44
    Quick question: Nearly all of the traits along your "Path 1" of the artifact tree were just nerfed, some rather harshly. How does this affect the order we'll be looking at spending our Artifact Power? Path 2 first?
    Orloth SilverEye
    <Demon Hunter Moderator>

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Orloth View Post
    Quick question: Nearly all of the traits along your "Path 1" of the artifact tree were just nerfed, some rather harshly. How does this affect the order we'll be looking at spending our Artifact Power? Path 2 first?
    Haven't done a ton of thinking about it but imo, go to fbp then down to cwb. Then from the beginning go to pb and finally go down to cw for the last traits.

  6. #46
    Why would you ever choose Flame Crash? As you noted before, Infernal Strike is off the GCD so you can just cast Sigil of Flame while you are still in the air/as you land.

  7. #47
    Because it gives you 3 (4 if talented) extra SoF's a minute? That used to be quite a lot of damage. Not so much at the moment, but still fairly significant for AOE. And tracking the SoF DoT, and using IS and SoF optimally adds quite an interesting dynamic to your otherwise quite lackluster rotation.
    Orloth SilverEye
    <Demon Hunter Moderator>

  8. #48
    I get the "coolness" factor, but like he said, neither ability's damage usually warrants their use, strictly rotation-wise. So spending talents to make it "sort of" useful is still a net waste when you can get other talents that buff already better abilities.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    Why would you ever choose Flame Crash? As you noted before, Infernal Strike is off the GCD so you can just cast Sigil of Flame while you are still in the air/as you land.
    You could also cast anything else except Sigil of Flame and gain one GCD?

  10. #50
    You could. But I wasn't arguing for or against its use period, I was arguing that a)as a rotational ability that requires a talent its lackluster, and b) it's not even necessary to open a fight.

    To directly answer your question, you would use SoF mid-air because it's ground-targeted. What other abilities could you use that would actually work at this point in time? Throw Glaive?

  11. #51
    you can cast pretty much anything else you want, if you cast it point-blank it's not like you're leaving melee range. the talent is not exactly useful in all circumstances and I'll take felblade over it most of the time, but a situation where it's useful isn't particularly hard to imagine.. just tons of adds already packed up in melee range. it's more aoe, of course using sigil of flame during flame crash is very intuitive but if you take the talent then you can cast your sigil after the infernal crash one has expired. The only question is whether it beats Gluttony (or gets beaten) on AoE over X targets and that's probably dependant on the number of targets as well as things like kirel narak or other talents

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    You could. But I wasn't arguing for or against its use period, I was arguing that a)as a rotational ability that requires a talent its lackluster, and b) it's not even necessary to open a fight.

    To directly answer your question, you would use SoF mid-air because it's ground-targeted. What other abilities could you use that would actually work at this point in time? Throw Glaive?
    First, this is quoted from my guide under Infernal Strike "This will also be used rotationally on cooldown for dps if you do not need it for the movement. Simply cast it where you are standing, or slightly to the side to proc Flame Crash with it talented." Which means that to maximize dps, you will use Infernal Strike regardless of whether or not you have Flame Crash, unless you need it for the mobility before the cd would be finished.

    Second, you don't need Infernal Strike to open a fight but it helps. It is a good and easy way to do some AoE damage, especially on the pull to help you get aggro.

    I'm on Vacation right now so I'll post numbers for Gluttony later. I had saved numbers prior to the trip, but with Soul Cleave getting nerfed its pointless. Though based on those numbers, Glutton has potential to be the best on AoE with Fallout. Granted the talent was broken previously and was not giving the proper amount of stacks. Thanks for bringing it up Mione.
    Last edited by Munkky; 2016-07-07 at 08:25 PM.

  13. #53
    My bad. I'll anxiously await the numbers in that case!

    Thanks for doing the work too btw

  14. #54
    hey, saw that Munkky has haste/versatility as the stats to go for raiding and haste/mastery is not the one to go for now. just wondering how u came to this, I am not at 110 yet just got in beta. just wondering how versatility is better in Legion then WoD. thanks for the guide

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Exx1523 View Post
    hey, saw that Munkky has haste/versatility as the stats to go for raiding and haste/mastery is not the one to go for now. just wondering how u came to this, I am not at 110 yet just got in beta. just wondering how versatility is better in Legion then WoD. thanks for the guide
    I found that via sims. Vers is looking to be one of the best stats for most tanks, if not every tank. Haste/Mastery hasn't been the FoTM for a few weeks atleast btw.

  16. #56
    Sooo, looking at the latest patch notes, your thoughts on Demon Spikes going from 50 pain to 200 pain?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ArcanaXVIII View Post
    Sooo, looking at the latest patch notes, your thoughts on Demon Spikes going from 50 pain to 200 pain?
    it was 5 pain, it is now 20. For datamining stuff you remove a 0 a lot of the time.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by sheaebay View Post
    it was 5 pain, it is now 20. For datamining stuff you remove a 0 a lot of the time.
    Great, I was afraid for a bit, that sounds reasonable. 5 pain was really cheap.

  19. #59
    Gives more meaning to pressing the ability and makes you manage your resources slightly more thus increasing the skill cap. Wish it was back at 10 for ease but I'm not opposed to making my actions have meaning.

  20. #60
    Updated the front page with Pre Patch info. I will port over the full guide closer to Legion Launch, so as not to have to change anything.

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