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  1. #1

    What is the point of talent gating in Legion?

    Is there any real reason why the prestige system in Legion is based around talent gating? It seems that all that does is serve to cause fewer people to want to take part in the system. Why not just keep the system intact: gain honor to up your prestige and gain ranks over time, but remove the constant talent resets?

    Isnt the whole point of the system to give people more incentive the PvP? The way it works now it gives both incentive to PvP, but also causes players to not want to take part in the system at all so they get to keep their talents and not constantly gimp themselves. The talent reset is entirely counter-productive.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  2. #2
    To make the addicts feel good. Nothing else. It's something called a 'skinner box', essentially making people addicted to a thing that gives them arbitrary shiny rewards for participation.

    So yes; It gives the addicts an incentive to PvP. Sadly, it's clumsy as hell -- just like every new system blizzard had made since p. much forever.

    The whole point of the prestige system is the same as the point of the achievements -- they're not there to reward people who play 'normally'. They're there for people who want to gimmick the hell out of their game for... well. prestige. If you just naturally got the ranks over time there won't be anything prestigious about it (like there's nothing prestigious about artifact weapons / being a garrison commander), so as much as I hate the arbitrary progression system, having one in this case is better than just giving people full awards for just existing in the game.
    Last edited by Saberstrike; 2016-06-24 at 02:04 PM.

  3. #3
    Honor Talents replace the progression system of farming Honor and Conquest Points for gear. The idea is as you do more PvP, you become more specialized in that type of combat and get new actives or passives related to PvP.

  4. #4
    WoW is a giant skinner box.

    every theme park MMO is a giant skinner box.

    But I agree : I find the new prestige / honor system very clumsy

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstrike View Post
    To make the addicts feel good. Nothing else. It's something called a 'skinner box', essentially making people addicted to a thing that gives them arbitrary shiny rewards for participation.

    So yes; It gives the addicts an incentive to PvP. Sadly, it's clumsy as hell -- just like every new system blizzard had made since p. much forever.

    The whole point of the prestige system is the same as the point of the achievements -- they're not there to reward people who play 'normally'. They're there for people who want to gimmick the hell out of their game for... well. prestige. If you just naturally got the ranks over time there won't be anything prestigious about it (like there's nothing prestigious about artifact weapons / being a garrison commander), so as much as I hate the arbitrary progression system, having one in this case is better than just giving people full awards for just existing in the game.
    But you still get that without the talent gating is the thing. A skinner box isnt about giving and then taking away, its about constant positive reinforcement.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    Honor Talents replace the progression system of farming Honor and Conquest Points for gear. The idea is as you do more PvP, you become more specialized in that type of combat and get new actives or passives related to PvP.
    Except that with the system as is now, y ou get new actives and passives, and then take them all away at once.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  6. #6
    Well; We could also heed to the wisdom of not attributing to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

    Aka: Blizzard suck at game design despite doing it since before most of us were even born!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstrike View Post
    Well; We could also heed to the wisdom of not attributing to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

    Aka: Blizzard suck at game design despite doing it since before most of us were even born!
    Yeah, I suppose there is this. Legion so far is full of stuff they got rid of for good reason and are now bringing back, as well as getting rid of universally popular things for no reason (pvp gear vendors)

    This PvP thing is just especially stupid
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Except that with the system as is now, y ou get new actives and passives, and then take them all away at once.
    Are you talking about Prestige? That is a decision the player makes when he or she reaches Honor Rank 50. It is a choice.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    Are you talking about Prestige? That is a decision the player makes when he or she reaches Honor Rank 50. It is a choice.
    I think you're missing the point.

    What purpose does clearing your talents serve that giving you a reward based on your prestige does not already serve?
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  10. #10
    It's basically so only a few people who can be bothered with the grind get prestige stuff, not everyone. There's probably a better way to do it than diminish player power for every prestige-thing, but hey. Still (probably) better than garrison craft. At least it requires effort!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    What purpose does clearing your talents serve that giving you a reward based on your prestige does not already serve?
    If you do not see a benefit then do not prestige - it is that simple! Why are you complaining about a choice you are not forced to make???

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    If you do not see a benefit then do not prestige - it is that simple! Why are you complaining about a choice you are not forced to make???
    Because it is not a choice!

    It is like people showing up to a raid without gemming and enchanting their gear. I am not going to carry the Prestige babies in BG's because they choose to gimp themselves.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    If you do not see a benefit then do not prestige - it is that simple! Why are you complaining about a choice you are not forced to make???
    Because after years of playing Warcraft and PvP being shafted with rewards, we are finnally given rewards!

    But unlike, say, PvE players, we have to constantly gimp ourselves to get them. It seems entirely counterproductive.

    Like, if the only way to get, let's say, one of the raid mounts: like the Ironhoof Destroyer, the only way to get it is to go into the raid with no talents and work your way through the raid, slowly gaining more with each completion till you eventually get the mount.

    How do you think this would be received?
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Because after years of playing Warcraft and PvP being shafted with rewards, we are finnally given rewards!

    But unlike, say, PvE players, we have to constantly gimp ourselves to get them. It seems entirely counterproductive.

    Like, if the only way to get, let's say, one of the raid mounts: like the Ironhoof Destroyer, the only way to get it is to go into the raid with no talents and work your way through the raid, slowly gaining more with each completion till you eventually get the mount.

    How do you think this would be received?
    The current system is very similar to the one in the game Payday 2. It worked out somewhat well in that game, since the rewards were mostly cosmetic and it was in some way "refreshing" to be back on square one, where you have to do things differently to make it work.

    Payday 2 is entirely PvE though, and I can see the issue with a system like this for a PvP setting. What would you suggest as a system to replace it? Reaching high ranks? Getting it automatically over time just by doing PvP?

    As others have pointed out: If you want the rewards, you can choose to do it. If you don't feel the rewards outweigh the cost / investment, don't do it. Then the issue that remains is that other people doing it is outside of your control. But other players being bad is also outside of your control. And getting the first row of PvP talents doesn't take long at all, which does give you some power at least.
    Last edited by mmoc738030ea5a; 2016-06-25 at 03:57 AM.

  15. #15
    Why is it this way or the high way with some people. Yes we have a choice to take part in pvp or not take part but why does it have to be based on something bad, or at best mediocre. The talents should all be available with rewards being mounts, weapon and armor models, perhaps some cool trinkets that give different effects. i don't know anything but you now receive a new passive. that's just lazy and stupid design. pvp should be fun, equal and skill based not some grind for passives.

    blizzard seems incompetent to make wow pvp good. then again it's still going and making them revenue. seems we're the dummies for consistently taking part.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Because it is not a choice!
    It most certainly and most definitely is a choice to prestige.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Because after years of playing Warcraft and PvP being shafted with rewards, we are finnally given rewards!
    Gladiator PvP mounts, titles, elite transmogrification gear, tabards, and weapon enchants are not rewards???

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    It most certainly and most definitely is a choice to prestige.
    Yes, it is also a choice to not gem and enchant gear.

    Gladiator PvP mounts, titles, elite transmogrification gear, tabards, and weapon enchants are not rewards???
    I am not going to carry lazy people that choose to prestige.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    I am not going to carry lazy people that choose to prestige.
    "Lazy" and "prestige" in this sentence do not go together. A player that reaches Honor Rank 50 and chooses to prestige for more rewards is not someone I would define as "lazy."

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    "Lazy" and "prestige" in this sentence do not go together. A player that reaches Honor Rank 50 and chooses to prestige for more rewards is not someone I would define as "lazy."
    Yes they are lazy because they expect other players to carry them.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Yes they are lazy because they expect other players to carry them.
    You seem to know the intentions of players without ever talking to them, let alone without even knowing how this system plays out. I believe you also feel like you are "carrying" players through random battlegrounds, arena skirmishes, and Ashran just because they have no gear and therefore are inherently "lazy?"

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