What is the point of talent gating in Legion?

[ComputerNerd]

It seems that prestiging is meant to be a choice, that you don't just do without consequence.
And that consequence is the PvP talents.
Otherwise everyone would be doing it, prestige with no downside.
And I don't think blizzard intend it to be used that way.

Yes they are lazy because they expect other players to carry them.

How are you determining that ?
Given you could argue the same of any player entering pvp for the first time, as they are in exactly the same position.
But you are not saying that.

Who is to say that a given player won't work hard, won't contribute positively as much as they can to earn it back again.
Why must that reset equal a lazy player.
Sure, there may be some.
But do not generalise and state as if it were fact that all of them are.

[Toppy]

You seem to know the intentions of players without ever talking to them, let alone without even knowing how this system plays out. I believe you also feel like you are "carrying" players through random battlegrounds, arena skirmishes, and Ashran just because they have no gear and therefore are inherently "lazy?"

While I wouldnt call them lazy, until they unlock the first row of pvp talents, and for some classes further rows, they will be a detriment. Its a fair complaint, and one of many reasons comparing to other games similar unlock systems doesnt fit that well considering they are FPS, and this is an MMO.

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It seems that prestiging is meant to be a choice, that you don't just do without consequence.
And that consequence is the PvP talents.
Otherwise everyone would be doing it, prestige with no downside.
And I don't think blizzard intend it to be used that way.



How are you determining that ?
Given you could argue the same of any player entering pvp for the first time, as they are in exactly the same position.
But you are not saying that.

Who is to say that a given player won't work hard, won't contribute positively as much as they can to earn it back again.
Why must that reset equal a lazy player.
Sure, there may be some.
But do not generalise and state as if it were fact that all of them are.

Why does there need to be a downside

Seriously. Why does there need to be a downside to the reward system that PvPers have been wanting for years?

What downside is there to other rewards in WoW?

[Mafic]

How are you determining that ?
Given you could argue the same of any player entering pvp for the first time, as they are in exactly the same position.
But you are not saying that.

Who is to say that a given player won't work hard, won't contribute positively as much as they can to earn it back again.
Why must that reset equal a lazy player.
Sure, there may be some.
But do not generalise and state as if it were fact that all of them are.

You can't contribute or work hard when you are MISSING PVP honor talents.

Are you trolling?

[ComputerNerd]

While I wouldnt call them lazy, until they unlock the first row of pvp talents, and for some classes further rows, they will be a detriment. Its a fair complaint, and one of many reasons comparing to other games similar unlock systems doesnt fit that well considering they are FPS, and this is an MMO.

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Why does there need to be a downside

Seriously. Why does there need to be a downside to the reward system that PvPers have been wanting for years?

What downside is there to other rewards in WoW?

Because that is the way they are deciding it to be, that prestiging is not just another traditional grind.
Continuous forward progress for a reward is how most of the game works.
It is nice they are trying out different ideas.

You can't contribute or work hard when you are MISSING PVP honor talents.

Are you trolling?

By that argument anyone who has just started pvp is useless.
See the problem with that argument, which is exactly what I said.

You cant come up with a good argument, so accuse me of trolling.
Exactly the response I keep saying is a problem here.
If you cant come up with a good argument, attack the player.

Getting the first columns is supposed to be pretty quick.
It is the full compliment which will be harder, therefore making prestiging a choice.

Why can't they contribute without a full toolkit ?
By that argument PvP should have excluded everyone who didn't have PvP gear, yet it did not.
You people are just proving my point.

[RedGamer030]

While I wouldnt call them lazy, until they unlock the first row of pvp talents, and for some classes further rows, they will be a detriment. Its a fair complaint, and one of many reasons comparing to other games similar unlock systems doesnt fit that well considering they are FPS, and this is an MMO.

How is it different from farming Honor Points to buy PvP gear?

You cant come up with a good argument, so accuse me of trolling.
Exactly the response I keep saying is a problem here.
If you cant come up with a good argument, attack the player.

He is has not even responded to me yet. I think he is done trying to have a civil discussion.

[Toppy]

How is it different from farming Honor Points to buy PvP gear?



He is has not even responded to me yet. I think he is done trying to have a civil discussion.

You dont farm your PvP gear, then throw it all away to gain the same exact set.

[Deleted]

Because that is the way they are deciding it to be, that prestiging is not just another traditional grind.
Continuous forward progress for a reward is how most of the game works.
It is nice they are trying out different ideas.



By that argument anyone who has just started pvp is useless.
See the problem with that argument, which is exactly what I said.

You cant come up with a good argument, so accuse me of trolling.
Exactly the response I keep saying is a problem here.
If you cant come up with a good argument, attack the player.

Getting the first columns is supposed to be pretty quick.
It is the full compliment which will be harder, therefore making prestiging a choice.

Why can't they contribute without a full toolkit ?
By that argument PvP should have excluded everyone who didn't have PvP gear, yet it did not.
You people are just proving my point.

You can play without gear and talents at 1500 and still win but you can't compete at 2,2+ because the opponents are simply not bad enough to overcome such a difference.

The gear gap will matter less in legion with the way they designed it but pvp talents are essential and create a new gap. For example smoke as a Sub rogue is a game-deciding ability that requires level 43. Not having it makes a huge difference. I don't know how bad it is for every single class but it's not unique as many have already voiced similiar complaints.

[Mafic]

It has never taken more than one week to farm honor gear in any expansion EVER. In WoD, it takes less than three days if you are a casual player and for a hardcore player they can do it in one day.

To reach the level where you can start to prestige you need to do hardcore play session of one week. For the casual player to unlock all PVP talents and start to prestige we are looking at ONE MONTH or more depending on how casual they are.

And that is assuming they have progressed their artifact weapon during that time span but for the sake of making conversation easier lets throw out that monkey wrench. Right now, prestige is not only a poor choice for players doing rated play but for players that do non rated play. Some specs are simply unplayable without talents and some specs (especially casters) rely on heavily on PVP honor talents. The one exception for example may be Sub Rogue? But Sub Rogue with the recent nerfs is now in line with other specs where PVP talents matter more because damage tuning has negated that "advantage".

You have be a complete masochist or willing to form a premade to carry you to prestige ranks. If you fit either category than you are a hardcore player.

Rated play is designed for hardcore players and prestige is supposed to be designed for casual players. Ironically, prestiging is going to be more hardcore than rated play as you need to form premades to be able to prestige in a reasonable time frame and make up for gaps in not having certain PVP honor talents.

Casual players will not be able to prestige in a reasonable time frame with how grindy the entire system is. Think of vanilla PVP rank system.

[Onvious]

blizz logic is weird, they said, we dont want to pvp item powergap in pvp, so we removed them, but instead of items, you will need to farm pvp talents.. how cute

[RedGamer030]

You dont farm your PvP gear, then throw it all away to gain the same exact set.

A new system is not suppose to directly reflect the old. If so, what is the point?

blizz logic is weird, they said, we dont want to pvp item powergap in pvp, so we removed them, but instead of items, you will need to farm pvp talents.. how cute

Yes, how dare Blizzard give PvP players a way to progress and earn rewards! They should have removed everything entirely, so we play the same thing over and over and over again with no change and nothing new ever!!! /s

[Toppy]

A new system is not suppose to directly reflect the old. If so, what is the point?



Yes, how dare Blizzard give PvP players a way to progress and earn rewards! They should have removed everything entirely, so we play the same thing over and over and over again with no change and nothing new ever!!! /s

You made the comparison, not me.

Why must PvPers suffer a detriment to gain their rewards?

[ComputerNerd]

You made the comparison, not me.

Why must PvPers suffer a detriment to gain their rewards?

You make it sound like some punishment that goes along with PvP rewards.
When it is not that in the slightest.
But it is simply an optional progression, and therefore to be optional it has to come with a downside.

[Toppy]

You make it sound like some punishment that goes along with PvP rewards.
When it is not that in the slightest.
But it is simply an optional progression, and therefore to be optional it has to come with a downside.

Isnt it? You are punished for wanting PvP rewards. The punishment is the removal of your talents, which is a major blow to your efficiency.

Once more.

Why are PvPers the only one who have to suffer a detriment to gain a reward?

There has still yet to be an answer to this. Just abunch of beating around the bush and stating some reward is better than no reward at all and hyperbole about how its not a big deal to lose your talents.

[ComputerNerd]

Isnt it? You are punished for wanting PvP rewards. The punishment is the removal of your talents, which is a major blow to your efficiency.

Once more.

Why are PvPers the only one who have to suffer a detriment to gain a reward?

There has still yet to be an answer to this. Just abunch of beating around the bush and stating some reward is better than no reward at all and hyperbole about how its not a big deal to lose your talents.

It is an optional progression not unlike rating.
There is a risk/reward system.
These complaints are just a narrow-minded view.
It is just another approach to it.
And it is entirely optional.
If you don't like it, don't do it.

[RedGamer030]

Why must PvPers suffer a detriment to gain their rewards?

A detriment of a few % of power difference???

OH NO!!! HOW CAN I EVER OVERCOME THIS MONUMENTAL TASK?!? /s

[Deleted]

people say "it's a choice". Well I'm not going to have this prestige 0-1 symbol at my main character... it looks horrible. So I feel forced to farm until it looks better. Thanks blizzard. Wish somehow I could turn it off.

[Onvious]

all pvp talents should be open in the start, if anyone wants to level prestige, they can reset their talent

[docterfreeze]

IMO too many classes are unplayable in PvP without many of the honor talents, handicapping yourself to get cosmetic rewards is not worth it.

[Toppy]

A detriment of a few % of power difference???

OH NO!!! HOW CAN I EVER OVERCOME THIS MONUMENTAL TASK?!? /s

Something tell me you have no idea what the PvP talents do


That said, with the new gearing system which randomly rolls ilvl on gear, PvPers were just given the -same exact incentive to continue taking part in content as everyone else-.

Further devaluing the point of the prestige system and the "need" for a talent reset.

[Deleted]

I like it.

People complain there's nothing to do, they give us something to do then people complain we have something to do. It's the same thing every time, lol.