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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Snegovik View Post
    Arms wars are also pretty soft atm on Beta.
    The balance seems to change on almost a daily basis, but last week they could dish out 1 million - 1.5 million Mortal Strikes by stacking a ton of MS buffs. Unsure if they nerfed them in PVP more, though. 6 seconds of setup into a 1.5 million Mortal Strike crit(guaranteed crit, too) is just completely broken. They might be soft and squishy, but they can pack one HELL of a wallop and are impossible to escape.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    The balance seems to change on almost a daily basis, but last week they could dish out 1 million - 1.5 million Mortal Strikes by stacking a ton of MS buffs. Unsure if they nerfed them in PVP more, though. 6 seconds of setup into a 1.5 million Mortal Strike crit(guaranteed crit, too) is just completely broken. They might be soft and squishy, but they can pack one HELL of a wallop and are impossible to escape.
    Yep indeed, some1 posted that they ran Arms/Havoc/Healer in 3s on beta, and they just ate every1 alive with the amount of damage those 2 specs could put out. But i am sure the dmg numbers will be tuned down across the board or atleast for better half of the DPS specs, too much dmg atm XD

  3. #43
    I really want to play Ench Shaman in Legion, but I'm worried I'm gimping myself. From what I read so far, it seems Warrior (Arms/Fury), Rogue or even Monk outperform Ench Shaman =\

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by coldcell View Post
    I really want to play Ench Shaman in Legion, but I'm worried I'm gimping myself. From what I read so far, it seems Warrior (Arms/Fury), Rogue or even Monk outperform Ench Shaman =\
    Sorta? It depends on the final numbers, but Enhance Shaman has A LOT of power, it's just tied to RNG. You can force a lot of burst and it's fully possible that you randomly burst for millions of damage without warning - which is pretty scary in its own right.

    Warrior is busted. Both Fury and Arms can dish out over a million damage in a GCD. Fury can pump out something silly like ~2 million in 2 gcds, effectively DESTROYING any class. Arms can just stack a ton of +MS damage and blow people up. If things go live, NOTHING will touch Arms Warrior's burst damage. Mortal Strike and Raging blows really need a damage reduction or they need to take 100% crit chance out of PVP.

    Monk just do a TON of consistent damage without cds. Something no other class really does. Monk is going to be a huge pressure class. If things go live as is, that's just not useful. There's three classes that can 100-0 people in seconds..who needs consistent 300-400k swings when Warrior, Rogue and DH can just blow people up in 2 gcds.

    It's like comparing apples to oranges. Enh is random high burst, Rogue is consistent burst tied to long CDs that requires a bit of uptime or an inescapable bastard who literally has shadow step on every attack, warrior is 1 hit and quit tied to a lot of stacking mechanics and CDs while being susceptible to every CC under the sun while Monk is a consistent high damage high pressure class with high mobility.
    Avatar given by Sausage Zeldas.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    Sorta? It depends on the final numbers, but Enhance Shaman has A LOT of power, it's just tied to RNG. You can force a lot of burst and it's fully possible that you randomly burst for millions of damage without warning - which is pretty scary in its own right.

    Warrior is busted. Both Fury and Arms can dish out over a million damage in a GCD. Fury can pump out something silly like ~2 million in 2 gcds, effectively DESTROYING any class. Arms can just stack a ton of +MS damage and blow people up. If things go live, NOTHING will touch Arms Warrior's burst damage. Mortal Strike and Raging blows really need a damage reduction or they need to take 100% crit chance out of PVP.

    Monk just do a TON of consistent damage without cds. Something no other class really does. Monk is going to be a huge pressure class. If things go live as is, that's just not useful. There's three classes that can 100-0 people in seconds..who needs consistent 300-400k swings when Warrior, Rogue and DH can just blow people up in 2 gcds.

    It's like comparing apples to oranges. Enh is random high burst, Rogue is consistent burst tied to long CDs that requires a bit of uptime or an inescapable bastard who literally has shadow step on every attack, warrior is 1 hit and quit tied to a lot of stacking mechanics and CDs while being susceptible to every CC under the sun while Monk is a consistent high damage high pressure class with high mobility.
    Thanks for your input. I get the ideas on why different melee has its pros and cons. That's where my dilemma comes from.

    I do want to play Ench Shaman, but if Warrior is as you described, then all else becomes irrelevant. Who needs high constant pressure damage when you can kill someone fast enough for it not to matter? I'm worried playing as Ench Shaman, nobody wants me for arena or RBG. All my friends have left the game and finding a decent guild isn't easy.

    But thanks for your thoughts once again!

  6. #46
    with PVP going fixed template similar to FPS games like OW, COD, there should be no excuses on balancing players down to 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2 again. they have claimed they can balance PVP due to this since adjusting the PVP templates are separate from PVE

    DEVs used excuses of PVE performance, gearing variations, gems and enchant choices making balancing extremely difficult on the past, on all levels of players. in the past they claimed they focus on end level...

    2 vs 2 balancing was dropped in WOTLK, after excessive QQ concerning Fmage/Dpriest comps, rather than nerf a mage, they announced they no longer balance 2's, dropped 2's ratings for use in gear purchases, since then 2's has been relegated to FOTM (expac) OP classes dominating and/or being able to 1 vs 2 carry for free points and achieves

    problem is that classes OP 1 vs 1 and 1 vs 2 carries over into 3's and BGs as well. hopefully blizz does balancing faster in legion and not ignore them for long periods like they did especially in MOP and WOD

  7. #47
    The Lightbringer scarecrowz's Avatar
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    Classes that are still retarded on Beta(after several nerfs):

    Frost Mage.
    Arms Warrior.
    Fury Warrior.
    Ass Rogue.
    Sub Rogue.
    Fire Mage.
    Frost Mage.
    WW Monk.
    Frost DK.


    The worst offenders by far are Arms, Fury and Frost Mage. 2 GCDs to kill someone.
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    PS - you might want to update your sig, since the player you are quoting was long ago banned for being a troll and trouble maker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    PS - you might want to spend more time researching why he's actually banned. Most of the time it's because his opinion doesn't line up with the opinions of threads he posts in and because the mods of this forum are most of the time a joke and just instantly ban people instead of actually looking at the reason.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Snegovik View Post
    Arms wars are also pretty soft atm on Beta.
    Arms is squishy, has mediocre at best mobility, and is the absolute definition of a one trick pony.

    The post you're quoting is right though. The burst it puts out is stupid high and will inevitably be nerfed to the ground leaving it as the most useless spec in the game by a fairly large margin.

    Fury does all th burst arms does with better mobility, defensives, and an aoe slow.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Arms is squishy, has mediocre at best mobility, and is the absolute definition of a one trick pony.

    The post you're quoting is right though. The burst it puts out is stupid high and will inevitably be nerfed to the ground leaving it as the most useless spec in the game by a fairly large margin.

    Fury does all th burst arms does with better mobility, defensives, and an aoe slow.
    Personally, i love Fury and I hate Arms, so i hope after balancing is done, fury will be on par or superior to Arms in Arena...well at least one can only dream lol, maybe then ill dust off my war for Legion cuz fury looks nice so far

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by pinkz View Post
    with PVP going fixed template similar to FPS games like OW, COD, there should be no excuses on balancing players down to 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2 again. they have claimed they can balance PVP due to this since adjusting the PVP templates are separate from PVE

    DEVs used excuses of PVE performance, gearing variations, gems and enchant choices making balancing extremely difficult on the past, on all levels of players. in the past they claimed they focus on end level...

    2 vs 2 balancing was dropped in WOTLK, after excessive QQ concerning Fmage/Dpriest comps, rather than nerf a mage, they announced they no longer balance 2's, dropped 2's ratings for use in gear purchases, since then 2's has been relegated to FOTM (expac) OP classes dominating and/or being able to 1 vs 2 carry for free points and achieves

    problem is that classes OP 1 vs 1 and 1 vs 2 carries over into 3's and BGs as well. hopefully blizz does balancing faster in legion and not ignore them for long periods like they did especially in MOP and WOD
    This is my gripe with WoW. They take forever to balance classes out when it's obvious certain classes are dominant. Not just pvp balance, but everything about WoW in general.

  11. #51
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Arms is squishy, has mediocre at best mobility, and is the absolute definition of a one trick pony.
    mediocre mobility
    mediocre mobility
    mediocre mobility
    mediocre mobility
    mediocre mobility
    ...

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by nizz View Post
    mediocre mobility
    mediocre mobility
    mediocre mobility
    mediocre mobility
    mediocre mobility
    ...
    It does in the case of melee.

    DH both spechave more mobility.
    feral druid i mean..
    Sub has a hell of a lot more mobility.
    Outlaw has about the same mobility, but better survivability.
    WW monk.... do i need to even type?

    Melee with similar mobility to arms: Enh shaman, assa rogue. Assa and Arm are pretty much the single target tunnel vision specs.

    Lower mobility then Arm: Unholy, Frost DK. Unholy makes up for it with amazing ranged damage.

    No mobility at all: Retribution, well you wont see them in the first season.

  13. #53
    Deleted
    Cant stand fighting windwalker monks, you can have the upper hand, and within one leg sweep you're dead. Fucking hate it.

  14. #54
    Melee have too much mobility in my opinion, hard as a caster to get a cast off with the improved mobility coupled with short interrupts. Especially now that Kiting ability has been guttered for Frost Mage and Fire mage for example. Kinda weird for them to take that away as well as Blazing speed and Alter Time. I mean, the whole theme they wanted for Mage was avoiding in the first place, Shimmer is not enough to live up to that theme.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by coldcell View Post
    What makes Fire Mage top tier (presumably) compared to Frost?
    Awful cast times for frost is a big issue.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Awful cast times for frost is a big issue.
    Fire does too but has a lot of ways to work around them. And it's set up for massive burst is piss easy. Like fury warrior easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-6700 @2.8GHz | Nvidia GTX 960M | 16GB DDR4-2400MHz | 1 TB Toshiba SSD| Dell XPS 15

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Fire does too but has a lot of ways to work around them. And it's set up for massive burst is piss easy. Like fury warrior easy.
    Fire is played well rarely hard casts and when it does it is sub 2 sec cast times. Frost is stuck with 2 3 seconds casts which is a lifetime in pvp.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by coldcell View Post
    I really want to play Ench Shaman in Legion, but I'm worried I'm gimping myself. From what I read so far, it seems Warrior (Arms/Fury), Rogue or even Monk outperform Ench Shaman =\
    Enh will be solid , rest assured, the damage aside ( which is pretty decent ) the utility they provide to others is insane in legion.

    purges and healing aside, they can buff other classes' damage by a shitton ( some classes benefit way more than others ), imagine windfury totems and bloodlust on a warrior or demonhunter while their cds are poped :]

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by XamFTW View Post
    You know what's ignorant and short sighted? Opening your mouth to speak about things you know nothing about. Prot paladins are literally killing people in a gcd, and blood dks dont go down with 5+ people attacking them. The fact that you're defending the current state of tanks in pvp, simply proves that you have 0 clue about the state they're currently in.
    I'm well aware of what prot pallies and blood DKs are doing atm. That isn't what the general argument is. People are much more concerned with prot spec being comparable than they are with prot specs raping face. Clearly you didn't read a fucking word I wrote since I noted this in the quote you made of me, but like I should be shocked.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Snegovik View Post
    Well Tanks atp over tuned dmg wise and self healing/survival. They do not die, they deal very good sustain + great burst + have better mobility then the DPS spec of that class (mobility referred to Paladin, and maybe War?)
    If you watch beta Arena streams, you can notice how insane tanks are atm in PvP (or even in duels) if plaid properly. Yest I was watching Savix’s (2.4k xp Ret) stream he was running Ret/Rog and they faced a single player Prot War ( I believe Swifty was playing war). After multiple times they restarted the fights they eventually lost, while prot war just sat most of the time in the middle and waited for them to come at him.
    Also some Chinese Blood Dk called “Box House” also very annoying to kill, you can see some USA streamers mention him.
    While I haven’t seen decent Prot Pallies doing Beta Arena, I did see few Duels done by Prot Pallies, and they just eat ppl alive.
    Atm an equaled skill players where one is playing DPS and another 1 of the 3 tanks mentioned above, tank will win hands down.
    Once again, read what someone you are quoting wrote before you rattle off some inane response they already are aware of. Number tuning is to come. They will make sure tanks don't global people, but most complaints aren't that prot is doing too much damage, but that prot is even viable. So many people think a dps spec should automatically stomp a prot spec, instead of the skill of the player mattering. This is narrow minded and just plain wrong. Also it makes no sense. If a prot spec can survive against a giant demon that would global any dps spec, how is they are supposed to take it up the rear when they fight those same dps specs.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by JacquesPierre View Post

    Once again, read what someone you are quoting wrote before you rattle off some inane response they already are aware of. Number tuning is to come. They will make sure tanks don't global people, but most complaints aren't that prot is doing too much damage, but that prot is even viable. So many people think a dps spec should automatically stomp a prot spec, instead of the skill of the player mattering. This is narrow minded and just plain wrong. Also it makes no sense. If a prot spec can survive against a giant demon that would global any dps spec, how is they are supposed to take it up the rear when they fight those same dps specs.

    Well i never said a DPS should stomp prot spec, even on live you can't stomp Blood or Prot War, in terms of globaling Blizzard will make sure that no class can global any1, so that does not only refer to prot specs.

    Blizzard did state that they want make Prot specs to be Viable in Rated PvP come Legion.

    Once again, i think we miss understood each other, but Prots can survive dps even on live, but being viable in Rated PvP is not about being able to survive aka being a mindless punching bag, it is about dmg/cc/utility/mobility this is what I believe Blizzard wants to implement prots with in order to be viable in Legion's Rated pvp

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