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  1. #1

    [7.0] Legion Discipline Priest Guide and Discussion

    This guide is no longer being hosted on this website. Please visit HowToPriest.com for the Discipline Priest guide.
    Last edited by Totaltotemic; 2016-10-15 at 09:56 PM.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    You might want to add a section for trinkets.
    Disc priests currently work really well with aoe damage proc trinkets. (Caged Horror/Corrupted Starlight)
    Since these trinkets use rppm mechanics they can provide 15-30% additional dps.
    The biggest advantage is that they especially help with trash packs and healing intense add waves since a trinket proc on multiple enemies
    can easily heal up to ~800k health per attonement.
    Last edited by Geschan; 2016-07-15 at 11:24 PM. Reason: added item links

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Geschan View Post
    You might want to add a section for trinkets.
    Disc priests currently work really well with aoe damage proc trinkets. (Caged Horror/Corrupted Starlight)
    Since these trinkets use rppm mechanics they can provide 15-30% additional dps.
    The biggest advantage is that they especially help with trash packs and healing intense add waves since a trinket proc on multiple enemies
    can easily heal up to ~800k health per attonement.
    Those two are my default dungeon setup (swapping to Horn and Flask of the Solemn Night for bosses), and they do a LOT of aoe dps and atonement healing.

  5. #5
    Good looking guide, thanks for putting it together!

  6. #6
    I don't know about Mindbender. I feel like I'm lacking in mana whenever I use that talent because I don't use it on CD and consequently use it as an emergency heal. And mana is an issue for groups that tend to ignore (or don't know) the mechanics which is rampant on the beta. It also does less healing than a Shadowfiend from my testing (Shadowfiend does 10 attacks that do more damage vs a Mindbender's 7 attacks at less damage at 15% haste).

    PW:S is an ok insta heal and solves any mana issues for me. It also lets me have an actual healing CD every 3 minutes (and it's not often I need to more than that).

    I also like Contrition mostly because the biggest issue for me with the new Disc design is the Atonement management and Contrition makes it easier even if just a little.

  7. #7

    Healing in 5-man mythic+

    Welp, there goes my post that I spent an hour typing. Here's the gist of it, because i cba to type everything out again.

    I did some math for 5-man dungeons. "The Penitent", "Clarity of Will" and "Grace" will be my talents of choice. For mana regen I like "Shield Discipline" the most, because it doesn't gimp your HPS as much as "Power Word: Solace" does.

    There are two phases of healing: efficiency phase and throughput phase.

    When you're behind in healing, use throughput phase, otherwise efficiency phase.

    Efficiency phase spell priority:
    1. Plea (0x Atonement stacks)
    2. Clarity of Will (Grace)

    So basically spam Clarity of Will on the tank.

    Throughput phase spell priority:
    1. Shadow Mend (Grace)

    Spam Shadow Mend on the tank. That's it.

    Use Power Word: Shield on the move and top off DPS with "The Penitent".

    DPS spells are never worth using outside of AoE healing. For pure single-target healing, they are completely useless, because pure heals have better throughput and efficiency due to the talents mentioned above. Since AoE healing is not as needed in 5-mans, you can say that Disc does not heal through damage in 5-man dungeon progression.

    Once you know fights better and know that you'll have mana left over at the end, you can start weaving in Smites instead of Clarity of Wills during your efficiency phase. The less healing your party requires, the more DPS spells you can use.

    In progression you'll basically spam two buttons for tank healing though.

    Can anyone tell me if they removed the cap on Clarity of Will? I also want to know if Clarity of Will's absorb counts as damage for Shadow Mend's debuff.

  8. #8
    @Azaren I tried a similar set up early on but I felt it's severely lacking in AoE heals which is often quite necessary in Mythic dungeons. Shadowmending people back individually felt very inefficient and in most cases wouldn't leave much or any time for CoW (though granted this was before the slight buff to CoW's cast time in the last build). Penance with Castigation and Halo are decent AoE heals.

    In place of CoW, I used smite which not only healed everyone with Atonement on them but also applies a damage absorb shield on the target. It has a similar effect except it affects the whole group rather than just the tank but reducing the damage the boss does - though of course the absorption granted per second is less than what you would get from CoW but at least you are healing multiple targets as well. Plus it makes sure Mastery isn't a dead stat for you (which it would be for the build you mentioned).

    Regarding the cap, CoW's absorption is capped at 2 casts.

  9. #9
    Arazen the build you describe is exactly what myself (and I believe other discs) are dreading during progression. I won't go as far as saying the build you described is useless, but it only has a singular use: sacrificing all hope of competitive aoe healing in order to be a designated tank healer on fights with insane tank damage (ie. Mythic Tyrant Velhari). I can see the build working well if all your raid needs you to do is keep tanks alive, but let me explain why it won't work (at least not well) in higher-end 5 man content.

    1. The Penitent is a very bad talent as currently implemented. Penance is one of our strongest aoe heals, and Penitent sacrifices either 30 or 33% extra penance damage, depending on whether you run Castigation or Schism. You increase your single target healing, but leave yourself with a much weaker aoe heal, and will quickly fall behind to any sort of sustained aoe damage, which is quite common at harder difficulties.

    2. Shield Discipline and Solace are both behind Mindbender in terms of throughput. Once again, you're sacrificing aoe healing for single target. By taking Shield Discipline, you're all but guaranteeing that PWS will be cast on the tank on CD, otherwise there's a chance the shield won't break and you won't get the mana return. Although a vast majority of your PWS will be on the tank, this dissuades you from casting PWS on a dps that spikes low unless you can be sure they will continue to take damage, which often isn't the case. Additionally, Mindbender is a massive throughput CD, and a powerful dps CD as well when combined with Schism; I have saved many groups with a well-timed cast.

    The one talent choice I will agree with is Grace; in higher end 5 mans the extra healing from PWS and SM is basically mandatory, and this talent is quite strong in buffing our non-atonement healing. Where we differ is that I believe Grace on its own is a strong enough buffer for our single target healing, and I would much rather have the flexibility to also be able to be an effective aoe healer. Finally, your build is also sacrificing the one thing that makes Disc unqiue; our damage. I'm sure your build can get the job done, but you're more or less pigeonholing yourself into becoming a less-effective Holy Paladin, bombing heals into single targets.

  10. #10
    Thank you for putting this guide together. I think it will be very helpful for a lot of people.

    I think these two points are very important and should be emphasized:

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    we’ll call Discipline a spec that is supposed to do almost as much healing as other healers while also doing 30-50% of the average Damage Dealer’s damage. By “almost as much healing” we mean that if you should be doing within 10% of the healing of the next lowest healer at a minimum. Played well (which is very difficult to do), you will do the same healing as everyone else while keeping the damage for free.

    • A skilled Disc will do about 30-50% of the average Damage Dealer's damage and will heal about 90% as much as most healers.
    • An average Disc will produce lower numbers than those.
    • An extremely skilled Disc will be able do more, but those players will be few and far between.


    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    To put it simply, you use small heals to buff people with Atonement and then deliver the majority of healing through high-powered damage spells. As such, Disc healing is largely delayed in general, so the spec requires a lot of foresight, planning, and knowledge of encounters to play well.

    • Disc remains a proactive healer. Instead of shielding in advance to absorb damage, Discs will pre-Atone players, then heal them via DPS. You put it perfectly: the spec requires a lot of foresight, planning, and knowledge of encounters to play well.
    • Other healing specs are more reactive with spells meant to heal up a group after the damage has occurred. Disc's ability to triage is much more limited in comparison.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Arazen View Post
    I did some math for 5-man dungeons. "The Penitent", "Clarity of Will" and "Grace" will be my talents of choice. For mana regen I like "Shield Discipline" the most, because it doesn't gimp your HPS as much as "Power Word: Solace" does.
    Your entire post is predicated on this idea that efficiency is relevant in 5 mans. This is not the case. It is extremely easy to drink whenever you need to as long as you aren't running with rabid PuG tanks that pull way before the dps are even in range.

  12. #12
    You might want to add this macro line in the macro section.
    Code:
    /targetenemy [combat,noexists][combat,help][combat,dead]
    This macro automatically "presses" tab if the current target is friendly/dead/unselected and the player is in combat.
    In high stress situations it helps always having a target for damage casts.
    Only works of course if the person using it is healing via mouseover/clickcasting.

  13. #13
    Added a new link to a much more in-depth explanation of how to best manipulate your Atonement numbers and why that is followed by a step by step explanation of burst healing as Disc. Also here

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...UKd2672Ntg/pub
    Last edited by Totaltotemic; 2016-07-17 at 05:31 AM.

  14. #14
    Has anyone tested out Obelisk of the Void? Obviously standing in one place is a limitation but the 1 min CD seems quite strong.

  15. #15
    Any thoughts on racials? I know it doesn't make a huge difference, but there are some interesting interactions due to atonement.

    Horde:

    Undead - Touch of the Grave - This actually triggers atonement. Doing some testing on the dummies it did around 2.5% of my total damage. Over the course of a fight with moderate mastery, that extra healing may add up. Hits for ~25K at level 110 and heals you as well. Also scales with spellpower.

    Blood Elf - Arcane Torrent and 1% crit - Arcane torrent is 33,000 mana on a 1.5 minute cooldown. Assuming an 8 minute fight, that's an additional 166k mana.

    Troll - Berserking - 15% haste on a 3 minute cooldown. Haste is looking to be our best stat. Amortized over the entire fight though (assuming ~8 minutes again), this is equivalent to a bit less than 1% haste (.93%), but valuable when it is up.

    Tauren - More health, 2% bonus damage/healing on crit. This obviously has a crit synergy, and becomes more valuable with more crit.

    It took a bit of time testing to figure out whats going on here, its strange. You don't double dip on the bonus (ie, bonus on the crit, then bonus on the heal). The healing transferred through atonement is increased by 1% of pre-Brawn crit amount.

    Assume 48% atonement (just what the pvp beta characters happen to have)

    Without Brawn

    100,000 damage -> 48,000 Atonement healing

    With Brawn

    102,000 damage -> 48480 Atonement Healing = 100,000 * 1.01 * 48% = 48480 Atonement Healing

    I would have expected 48,000 * .02 = 48960 Atonement healing, but something screwy is happening. As with all atonement related math, it doesn't add up the way you think.

    Goblin - 1% haste, plus the jump and bank access. Slightly worse than the panda performance wise, as you get 1.15% haste from the panda food doubling.

    ----------------

    Alliance:

    Worgen - 1% crit. Basically a worse Blood Elf. Sprint though.

    Gnome - 5% more mana (55,000 at 110) and 1% haste.

    Night Elf - Flips, 1% crit or haste depending on the time of day.

    Dwarf - More DR + Free personal dispel, same Brawn effect as the Tauren (see above)

    Human - Stun Removal, 2% more of all secondary stat from all sources.

    ---------------------------------------

    Both

    Panda - Double food! If you're using haste food, this is an extra 375 rating, which is equal to 1.115% haste. It could be argued this provides a better benefit than the troll racial (haste for the entire fight, as opposed to 10 second periods).
    Last edited by lcs; 2016-07-17 at 07:11 AM.

  16. #16
    Am I just a scrub, or does Disc feel horribly underpowered in 5mans?

    I'm just playing around in Proving Grounds on the PTR right now, and all the other healers feel fine, but I struggle with Disc, always having to use cooldowns and spam Shadow Mend and such. It's mostly single target healing where Disc feels really weak. PWS gets absorbed in seconds, Plea doesn't really heal all that much, and even with Schism + SWP + Penance, Atonement doesn't heal that much on the tank. Seems like I'm better off spamming Clarity of Will nonstop, in a 5man situation.

    Furthermore, it seems like you have to pre-emptively apply Atonement to the whole group before AoE damage happens, or else you fall way behind on healing.

    Overall, Holy just felt so, so, SO much easier to heal in a 5man. Strong single target heals and easy AoE healing that doesn't require 4+ GCDs of setup before you do any real healing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    LFR saved raiding
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
    get_a_load_of_this_guy_cam.jpg

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Am I just a scrub, or does Disc feel horribly underpowered in 5mans?

    I'm just playing around in Proving Grounds on the PTR right now, and all the other healers feel fine, but I struggle with Disc, always having to use cooldowns and spam Shadow Mend and such. It's mostly single target healing where Disc feels really weak. PWS gets absorbed in seconds, Plea doesn't really heal all that much, and even with Schism + SWP + Penance, Atonement doesn't heal that much on the tank. Seems like I'm better off spamming Clarity of Will nonstop, in a 5man situation.

    Furthermore, it seems like you have to pre-emptively apply Atonement to the whole group before AoE damage happens, or else you fall way behind on healing.

    Overall, Holy just felt so, so, SO much easier to heal in a 5man. Strong single target heals and easy AoE healing that doesn't require 4+ GCDs of setup before you do any real healing.
    Disc is a pro-active healer so yes you want to pre-atonment before heavy aoe damage. (much like you want to pre-shield in WoD)

    Atonement does not scale up/down with number of applications so it is balanced around having multiple targets healed because if you did enough healing to keep a tank up on 6 people it would be utterly OP. Hence the need to single target heal the tanks. You will want Grace (level 100 talent) for 5mans for sure.

    Disc shines when you don't actually have to save peoples lives and instead can focus on providing background healing on 6+ people through atonement, trusting in the other healers in a raid to keep the tanks up.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  18. #18
    So...yeah, Disc kinda struggles in a 5man where it's the only healer, but does fine in raids where there are other healers to keep the tank up. With CoW spam you can do decently, but compared to the other healers, Disc has to work a lot harder to really catch up, if the whole group is taking damage.

    But of course, this is level 100 on the PTR, so no artifacts or other 110 stuff.

    Kinda makes me wonder why it's balanced that way, when Holy does great in 5mans and raids. Once again, I'm just left thinking that Blizz should just scrap Disc and make it a DPS spec, because throughout the years, expansion after expansion, they always struggle with balancing it, leaving it either crappy or OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    if you did enough healing to keep a tank up on 6 people it would be utterly OP.
    They could just make it heal proportionally more on just the tank.
    Last edited by anon5123; 2016-07-17 at 08:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    LFR saved raiding
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
    get_a_load_of_this_guy_cam.jpg

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    So...yeah, Disc kinda struggles in a 5man where it's the only healer, but does fine in raids where there are other healers to keep the tank up.

    Kinda makes me wonder why it's balanced that way, when Holy does great in 5mans and raids. Once again, I'm just left thinking that Blizz should just scrap Disc and make it a DPS spec, because throughout the years, expansion after expansion, they always struggle with balancing it, leaving it either crappy or OP.
    Because they want to make a 'healer through dps' work.
    They failed with the Monk and are having another go now.

    And why would they make it a dps spec? Oo what would make a dps Disc unique. what would set them apart from a mage or shadow priest?
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  20. #20
    Disc does fine in 5 mans. You just use shadowmend a lot more and change a couple talents.

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