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  1. #1

    Simulationcraft results for 7.0 Legion PrePatch

    Hello everyone.

    For those who don't know me, I'm the Simulationcraft Rogue Action Priority List (APL) Maintainer.

    I made a lot of work to know what is optimal for rogues at level 110 (everything will be released on MMO-C forums later in August, you can have some sneak peeks if you're on #Ravenholdt) but since the 7.0 Legion PrePatch will hit Live Servers the 19th, I had to make some -basics- comparisons for level 100.

    You will find on the spreadsheet :
    - Main Results
    - Stats Scaling
    - Trinkets Breakdown
    - Talents Breakdown

    As the PrePatch will lasts ~6 weeks, I will not post results outside of the single target patchwerk scenario since it requires more work.
    Keep in mind that it is here just to show how are the specs with the T18M setup, ie HfC 6.2 Mythic Gear w/ 795 Ring and everything at 2/2.
    Every infos related to the simulations are in the spreadsheet.
    The source column is empty since I encounter some difficulties to host every html reports (some of them can be really big), I have to find a solution.

    Feel free to ask things in this thread in regards to the simulations of rogues for 7.0 PrePatch.
    I won't add any other infos to the spreadsheet (more fight setup, new "BiS" list, ...) and will only fix bugs if there is any.
    I will still update it if there is any hotfix of course.

    Finally, I'm porting my work to AMR Simulation, so the level 110 simulation results will be displayed both for SimC and AMR (it should displays the same btw :P).

    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Aqwv0VckwWnifFzgYHer4WIncpk

    PS : I do say HFC 6.2 Mythic Gear since 7.0 make any Mythic HFC Loot to be 720+ (720 base and can proc Titanforged).

    TL;DR : Assn & Sub are both fine/equal, especially if you have BHTV trinket for Sub. If you don't have it, you might have to play Assn if you want to be "optimal". Outlaw is good but relies heavily on your RNG (thanks to RTB).
    Last edited by Aethys256; 2016-07-17 at 10:44 AM.
    Rogue SimC Maintainer since 6.2.
    As a Rogue, the best thread on MMO-C to talk about Legion SimC is this one, it will be a pleasure for me to discuss with you there.
    I'm also the maker of AethysRotation, an addon to help you doing an optimized rotation (especially for Rogues).
    Finally, you can retrieve a lot of Rogues simulations results on our Resources Website.

  2. #2
    i really dont like how much of a damage swing outlaw has
    will completely ruin any credibility warcraftlogs ranking has ever had:/

    im surprised MoS is ahead of DFA though for sub

    will that change once we have finality?
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2016-07-17 at 01:21 AM.

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! WskyDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    i really dont like how much of a damage swing outlaw has
    Agreed. Looks like I'm gonna be assassination until they can get outlaw more consistent.
    Shame, I was looking forward to it too
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  4. #4
    You have Skull of War only as 715 but it can be upgraded to 725 would that change it's value?

    Btw thank you for getting Simcraft results out ILU!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    im surprised MoS is ahead of DFA though for sub

    will that change once we have finality?
    No, MoSh is always ahead of DFA.

    Quote Originally Posted by WskyDK View Post
    Agreed. Looks like I'm gonna be assassination until they can get outlaw more consistent.
    Shame, I was looking forward to it too
    Blame Roll the Bones design. ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    You have Skull of War only as 715 but it can be upgraded to 725 would that change it's value?
    My bad, they were simmed at 725 iLvl but I wrote 715. Every pieces upgradeable has been upgraded to 2/2. Will edit it later.
    Rogue SimC Maintainer since 6.2.
    As a Rogue, the best thread on MMO-C to talk about Legion SimC is this one, it will be a pleasure for me to discuss with you there.
    I'm also the maker of AethysRotation, an addon to help you doing an optimized rotation (especially for Rogues).
    Finally, you can retrieve a lot of Rogues simulations results on our Resources Website.

  6. #6
    Is using a slow offhand weapon still okay for Subtlety? It seemed like Shadow Techniques was proccing slightly less often for me on the PTR using dagger/slow instead of dagger/dagger, was wondering how much of a dps difference there actually is (if any).

    Also, thanks for posting this.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! WskyDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aethys256 View Post
    Blame Roll the Bones design. ^^
    Wonder how long it takes to get changed
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  8. #8
    Hello, first of all good job and thank you for the work you did. I'd like to know wich enchant should i go for in assn (neck, ring, cloak, weapons) . Should i go full versa or full crit ?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Denchet View Post
    Is using a slow offhand weapon still okay for Subtlety? It seemed like Shadow Techniques was proccing slightly less often for me on the PTR using dagger/slow instead of dagger/dagger, was wondering how much of a dps difference there actually is (if any).

    Also, thanks for posting this.
    Shadow Techniques isn't normalized in any way and dependent on attack speed, so by the looks of it its better to stick to 2 fast weapons now as sub.

  10. #10
    How would outlaw look, if you rerolled RtB until you recieve two buffs, or keep Shark infested waters (single buff) during adren rush+curse of dread (for legion launch), or keep true bearing under the same circumstances. Right now What I've noticed that the AMR simulations are much too simple when it comes to changing the rotation in context of RtB.

    For example I believe the legendary bracers that grant 300% dmg on pistol shot after Between the eyes is massively undervalued, due to the fact that you can get the proc much more often with True bearing. With Adren rush up, you could even force a blunderbuss proc before using Between the eyes when having either jolly roger, a combi of regen buffs or simply just adren rush.
    Also is Thistle Tea not used in simulations at all? It seems to be an effective tool to get maximum burst after adren rush, or to maximize damage from Curse of the Dreadblades second usage, if the RtB roll aren't geared towards energy regen, and adren rush aren't available.

    Also thanks for the work you do for the rogue community!

    Edit: also there's the fact that with pandemic working on RtB buff, you can reroll a single buff into a +2 buff with 30% increased duration, often making it a minimal loss to reroll, since the result can last more than 50 sec with deeper strategem.
    Last edited by XZlayeD; 2016-07-17 at 01:03 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by XZlayeD View Post
    How would outlaw look, if you rerolled RtB until you recieve two buffs, or keep Shark infested waters (single buff) during adren rush+curse of dread (for legion launch), or keep true bearing under the same circumstances. Right now What I've noticed that the AMR simulations are much too simple when it comes to changing the rotation in context of RtB.

    For example I believe the legendary bracers that grant 300% dmg on pistol shot after Between the eyes is massively undervalued, due to the fact that you can get the proc much more often with True bearing. With Adren rush up, you could even force a blunderbuss proc before using Between the eyes when having either jolly roger, a combi of regen buffs or simply just adren rush.
    Also is Thistle Tea not used in simulations at all? It seems to be an effective tool to get maximum burst after adren rush, or to maximize damage from Curse of the Dreadblades second usage, if the RtB roll aren't geared towards energy regen, and adren rush aren't available.

    Also thanks for the work you do for the rogue community!

    Edit: also there's the fact that with pandemic working on RtB buff, you can reroll a single buff into a +2 buff with 30% increased duration, often making it a minimal loss to reroll, since the result can last more than 50 sec with deeper strategem.
    It would look totally different, right now im able to reach 90-100k on dummy tests on PTR (no BL, no pots, with flask/food). I basically reroll all the single buffs unless i have AR(or if its energy regen during AR then i also reroll it) or if ring is up.
    I did an approx. 9min test today on the dummy on ptr and reached 100k stable (could have been better,i have 400ms there atm). I've used class trinket and blademasters (2of the blades hit another dummy, minor increase) and ran 2-0-1-0-0-2-3.

    edit: u can also reroll in advance due to pandemic on ROTB making sure u got a nice pair of buffs for the ring, that can potentially boost ur DPS by a lot.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by redtarty View Post
    It would look totally different, right now im able to reach 90-100k on dummy tests on PTR (no BL, no pots, with flask/food). I basically reroll all the single buffs unless i have AR(or if its energy regen during AR then i also reroll it) or if ring is up.
    I did an approx. 9min test today on the dummy on ptr and reached 100k stable (could have been better,i have 400ms there atm). I've used class trinket and blademasters (2of the blades hit another dummy, minor increase) and ran 2-0-1-0-0-2-3.

    edit: u can also reroll in advance due to pandemic on ROTB making sure u got a nice pair of buffs for the ring, that can potentially boost ur DPS by a lot.
    Yeah I'd love to see simulations of this, because on Beta I'm able to get much higher numbers than what the AMR simulations tells me I should be getting at my Ilvl (850).

    Also, how is DfA calculated in terms of the delay there's caused by the animation? seeing as you're unable to AA to get main gauche procs, and the energy cap it creates during high energy phases, can result in less usage of finishers during Curse of the Dreadblades.

    Furthermore how about MfD being more effective at rerolling buffs to lessen the strain of bad luck when rolling? - Especially in dungeons I find MfD to be vastly superior due to the reset and the ability to keep up 20% alacrity during the entire run. Seeing as a ton of raid fights also make use of adds this could skew results in actual raids.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    So basically Skull of War + Stone of the Elements better than BHTV + Fapacitor for Assassination?

  14. #14
    i find it weird that the sim suggests vigor is better than anticipation for sub, i can still do the 2xSS+evi+2xSS without vigor in one dance(with subterfuge) so why take vigor at all? that just opens you up for overcapping in CPs

    edit: it could be because of on beta i have the energy procs from energetic stabbing, so maybe that's why

    but if that's the case will anticipation or DS be better on 110? (seems logical it would be especially once we get the legendary boots.)
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2016-07-17 at 02:22 PM.

  15. #15

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    i find it weird that the sim suggests vigor is better than anticipation for sub, i can still do the 2xSS+evi+2xSS without vigor in one dance(with subterfuge) so why take vigor at all? that just opens you up for overcapping in CPs

    edit: it could be because of on beta i have the energy procs from energetic stabbing, so maybe that's why

    but if that's the case will anticipation or DS be better on 110? (seems logical it would be especially once we get the legendary boots.)
    yea that seemed odd to me as well, maybe the sim places a really high valuation on energy gen effects? or maybe just as you say, it's the differences from not having the artifact

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Thanks for your work. I want to ask about assassination i saw that vers is pretty close to crit, was this simulated for skull of war trinket ? And is it worth gearing for 100% crit on rupture - 2set bonus. Also did you delay exsanguinate for legendary ring use or just use it on cd. ?
    Last edited by mmocbf4e122f20; 2016-07-17 at 03:12 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Texdawg View Post
    So basically Skull of War + Stone of the Elements better than BHTV + Fapacitor for Assassination?
    They're both crafted trinkets so can't do that afaik.

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Kalador's Avatar
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    thanks for the great work, i'll go assa for pre patch...

    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    They're both crafted trinkets so can't do that afaik.
    you can equipe 2 crafted trinket

    the optimal trinket for assa is probably stone of the elements + soul cap if you're a bit lucky...
    Last edited by Kalador; 2016-07-17 at 03:57 PM.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    thanks for the great works.

    Do you guys think that the numbers we are going to see starting with Patch 7.0 will be somewhat representatively for LEGION dps numbers?

    Or do you think that the artifact coming with the expansion makes a too big difference that numbers are not really important with 7.0 ?

    Thanks guys

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