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  1. #1001
    Quote Originally Posted by Shimejii View Post
    They are just showing they dont play the same game, its getting really annoying. Whomever is in charge of Warlocks @blizz are doing a very poor job of "fixing" the specs. They just are falling flat on their faces again. Nerf nerf nerf is not always the answer, especially when changing how a talent works (aka Making service much better for demo) then nerfing synergy to be lesser.
    I don't think it's a warlock problem. Blizzard just isn't very good at balancing and doesn't have the best ways to implement their ideas.

  2. #1002
    Quote Originally Posted by Clonan View Post
    Well, we don't know where we end up on the scale yet. The changes to stats and changes yet to come may put our own damage so high that 25% from synergy may be close to what 40% is currently. Complaining about damage adjustments is rather futile still. I do hope they do something about Sin'dorei Spite together with Supremacy if that ends up being the go-to talent, though. Super clunky to hard cast for the proc.

    Blizzard however kinda shoots themselves in the foot by introducing seemingly nonsensical nerfs before people get the see any buffs. It's a certain queue to get overwhelmed by complaints. Maybe it has to be that way though. After all, there are so many specs nowdays that it's probably not possible to do everything in the "right" order and communicate about every change.

    I'm not saying they won't fuck up... they've done this many times before, but I'm still reluctant to complain about damage adjustments at this stage. Mechanics, sure.
    I'll be damned before I'm forced to twist summon Doomguard/Infernal. It's just stupid, it's bad enough to have to do it once every 10 minutes for destro warlock let alone every 3 minutes for demo now.

  3. #1003
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by herpsderpsanon View Post
    Okey boys, so it turns out I poop rainbows because my RNG is Godlike. I have the Demonology legendarys listed; Sin'dorei Spite, Kazzak's Final Curse and the Recurrent Ritual.

    As soon as I can I'll start using the wrists in my setup, currently I don't have a pair of Shoulders or Belt to replace them with anything, so I can't use them. Oh unlucky me. LOL. I was just sure I would get a Prydaz or that damn Sephuz ring and I didn't even think I'd get a third lottery win in a row.

    I don't know if I want to give up the Recurrent Ritual even if its a dps loss compared to the Kazzak's Final Curse just because of how accustomed I have become to the rotation with the Recurrent Ritual shoulders. I'm guessing I should just bite the bullet and run the belt on anything that im gonna multidot and run the Darkglare on anyways, like Cenarius, Dragons, Xavius, Odyn, and Helya.

    SO, TLDR: is it a huge loss if I just use the Recurrent Ritual and Sin'dorei Spite over using Sin'dorei & Kazzak's?
    First off, gratz on your good luck.
    Second, if you disenchanted or sold a belt or shoulder, you can go to worldofwarcraft.com/support and do an item restoration. I just did that because I don't have another belt to wear if I want to shelf my destro belt to run with a demo legendary (assuming I ever get one for demo).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    I'll be damned before I'm forced to twist summon Doomguard/Infernal. It's just stupid, it's bad enough to have to do it once every 10 minutes for destro warlock let alone every 3 minutes for demo now.
    I don't understand your point about pet twisting as demo. What changes happened on recent ptr build that would suggest this is now a thing?
    “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.” -- Voltaire

    "He who awaits much can expect little" -- Gabriel Garcia Marquez

  4. #1004
    Random question, how strong does the demo 2pc seem? I wonder if we will see people not wearing set pieces until they have 4 set with the new stat changes I guess the real question is

    Would that extra time on dogs be enough to get a buffed TKC off with 2 hounds packs and 2 full imp packs up, with enough haste maybe, the extra duration on the dogs just doesn't seem to be make or break, but I'd love to be wrong.

    Armory^

  5. #1005
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    I don't understand your point about pet twisting as demo. What changes happened on recent ptr build that would suggest this is now a thing?
    I think he meant: With GoSup you need to resummon your permanent pet to get the buff from the legendary demo bracers. While not technically "twisting" because you just resummon the same pet, it is rather similar to what destruction locks have to do at the moment when they have GoSup and want to trigger Lord of Flames.

  6. #1006
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakile View Post
    Random question, how strong does the demo 2pc seem? I wonder if we will see people not wearing set pieces until they have 4 set with the new stat changes I guess the real question is

    Would that extra time on dogs be enough to get a buffed TKC off with 2 hounds packs and 2 full imp packs up, with enough haste maybe, the extra duration on the dogs just doesn't seem to be make or break, but I'd love to be wrong.
    2p is mediocre
    even without 4p you can get 2 dreadstalkers and 2 sets of imps for TKC

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    2p is mediocre
    even without 4p you can get 2 dreadstalkers and 2 sets of imps for TKC
    I think he meant four dreadstalkers, which is obviously impossible.

  8. #1008
    yeah I meant that brief window where we will be able to have 8 imps + 4 dogs (+ 4 Imps from Improved), thanks to our 2p, if it would be possible to get a TKC out with 4 dogs and 12 imps up, maybe without casting DE for the last pack of dogs but even then just barely.

    Armory^

  9. #1009
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakile View Post
    yeah I meant that brief window where we will be able to have 8 imps + 4 dogs (+ 4 Imps from Improved), thanks to our 2p, if it would be possible to get a TKC out with 4 dogs and 12 imps up, maybe without casting DE for the last pack of dogs but even then just barely.
    15 second cd with 1 second cast. No its impossible

  10. #1010
    After doing some quick and rough math, our two piece would need to give us 6 seconds extra for dreadstalkers, only 2 more then current but this is all hypothetical, I just wanted to see what it would take to be able to TKC with 'max' pets 12 imps 4 stalkers

    Armory^

  11. #1011
    Hi there Not I was wondering your opinion as it relates to two trinkets Chrono Shard vs Unstable Arcanocrystal as my second trinket. I am trying to see which one is better to be my second equipped trinket?

  12. #1012
    Felguard's damage increased by 20% on the ptr. Looks like service will be strong

  13. #1013
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkith View Post
    Felguard's damage increased by 20% on the ptr. Looks like service will be strong
    Sounds a lot
    Live legion Felquard with Synergy spec, Felguard damage =47k over 2 mins
    Play test with Service as above Felguard damage =59k

    So not worth talking about really. Sadly.

  14. #1014
    A very large portion of my damage is Demonbolt anyways, and the nerf to synergy will nerf that, while we only get a 20% felguard buff in return, which isn't that great because it's more damage tied to a pet with travel times and the usual AI issues.

  15. #1015
    Deleted
    I thought i would share my opener that most times gives a 10 imp Thal'Kiels as an opener.
    Pre Pull
    DE - POT - DB|start|DB-DG-Hand(this also gets Doom up fast)-DE-DB-DB-DB-DB(by now(6) you should have DE proc)-DS-Hand-DE-Thal'
    Last edited by mmoc105d7ec9fd; 2016-12-08 at 01:41 PM.

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx174 View Post
    I thought i would share my opener that most times gives a 10 imp Thal'Kiels as an opener.
    Pre Pull
    DE - POT - DB|start|DB-DG-Hand(this also gets Doom up fast)-DE-DB-DB-DB-DB(by now(6) you should have DE proc)-DS-Hand-DE-Thal'
    The opener in the guide already has 10 imps, 2 dreadstalkers and doomguard...

    Also regarding PTR and grimoires:

    Synergy: 3+ Targets
    Service: 1-2 Targets
    Supremacy: Never

  17. #1017
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    The opener in the guide already has 10 imps, 2 dreadstalkers and doomguard...

    Also regarding PTR and grimoires:

    Synergy: 3+ Targets
    Service: 1-2 Targets
    Supremacy: Never
    Yes it does but I dont cast doom and always wait till 4 SS for DS-Hand-DE-Thal', just a little diffrent Not

    Very interesting about the grimoires.

  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by murdax View Post
    Hi there Not I was wondering your opinion as it relates to two trinkets Chrono Shard vs Unstable Arcanocrystal as my second trinket. I am trying to see which one is better to be my second equipped trinket?

    Unstable Arcanocyrstal is BiS so it should be your #1.

  19. #1019
    Deleted
    Hi there. So first off sorry for what will follow. Really.

    I decided to brush up the ol' undead warlock from times of yore, and got him to lvl 110 this morning (14 hours ago now). Eager to be over with the grind, I start grinding WQs and emissaries, just in time for morning reset, so I get 4 caches and 2 WB to kill. So I obviously get a legendary because why the fuck not. Pillars of the dark portal it is, I'm happy jumping around in my instant spacetime portals, all is well. I get some gear, and off to LFR I am. After clearing the 3 EN wings, ToV it is, Helya dies, and I get Recurrent Ritual while running around in demo loot spec for a shot at all the relics, not knowing what I'll play. So now I know. All of this in the span in 8 hours play in game.

    Again, sorry.

    Now that story time is over, I had a quick question : now that my Dreadstalkers are at worst shard neutral, at best generators, should I still play with Demonic Calling ?

    I feel like I should, so my main question is this : I'm at 3 shards, dreadstalkers coming off CD. I demonbolt, and immediately cast dreadstalkers to go into dreadstalkers -> imps> empowerment. If I see Demonic Calling procced (often mid cast due to travel time, lag be it game or brain, etc), do I carry on with my cast and end up wasting a shard cause it will cap me at 5, or should I interrupt my cast, guldan then dreadstalkers and benefit from the full demonic calling proc ?

    I feel like carrying on is the best call, so as not to delay dreadstalkers nor basically waste a gcd, but I'd appreciate some guidance here

    Thanks a lot guyz.

  20. #1020
    Deleted
    Firstly, you either had a shitty previous life or your next one is going to be terrible, because 2 legendaries in 8 hours? It took me 20 days of played time to get my second - and I have been *blessed* with the legs and ring.

    Depends on your exact situation - if you have 3 shards as Call DS comes off CD you shouldn't push for the 4th shard - DS is your best shard spender, and it's perfectly acceptable to go DS - (3) HoG - DE, rather than feeling you have to go DB - DS - (4) HoG - DE every time. That way you don't ever risk wasting a shard with a proc anyway. It also depends where on your rotation you are - if you're in the general rotation phase you'll find breaking your cast is fine. I doubt it's a significant DPS impact either way - I've not done the maths, but the extra imp casting for 12s is probably a small DPS gain for a single GCD.

    However, if you're in the midst of your TKC set-up it's very different. You should have this section of time optimised down to a GCD, so that you are able to cast TKC +/-0.5s of it's CD. Breaking a cast during this section of the rotation costs you a GCD, and it's a GCD you already have ear-marked for something else, so you're likely facing adapting your most important cast sequence on the fly, without breaking your stride. If you drop 4 empowered imps out of your window because of a lost GCD you tried to squeeze back in that hurts a lot more than wasting a shard. If you end up with 4 imps and 2 DS (+2 imps) all unempowered, rather than 3 imps, 2DS (+2 imps) empowered, I suspect it's also going to be a DPS loss.

    As for DC as a talent... baseline haste is relevant.

    At 39% (12.5k) haste - about as good as it gets right now - you're going to have time to hit 2x4 shard HoG and a call dreadstalkers (with DC if have no shoulders, or with shoulders), but you're not going to have time to benefit from the extra two shards as there's no time to hit another HoG before you have to hit TKC.
    At around 11k haste, you'll probably find you can hit a 4 & 4 when DC procs (and have an extra shard you can't use) or a 4 & 3 when it doesn't, so the benefit is... about half what it could be. The only time DC becomes relevant at this point is during the hero phase. You'll be able to push from 12 imps (including Imp DS imps) and 2 DS to 14 imps and 2 DS.
    While you're down below 10k haste, you're probably going to want DC all the time, because it's essentially buying you two extra imps/shards with no real wastage when it procs, there may be a sub-optimal haste bracket for hero phases, but meh you'll get 4/4/DS minimum.

    For the record I despise DC - it's a 20% proc chance that goes on scream-inducing cold-streaks far too often in those windows where you're setting up TKC - I've fired off five consecutive 4xHoG without seeing a proc (I make this about a 0.7% chance, so the odds of it happening at the exact worst moment that it always seems to happen in - <10s left on TKC - is somewhere around 0.2%). And there's no balance to this as there's no such thing as a hot-streak - it just procs while on CD without any ability to use the proc any sooner, and all a subsequent proc will do is extend the DC window. As such, as soon as you have the combination of shoulders and sufficient haste, it's worth dropping it. Hell, just run without a talent in T15 instead and remember what your life was like when you were a happy young warlock with none of these concerns.

    A simple redesign of this talent to work like Agony shard generation (i.e. you get a proc guaranteed if you generate 5 shards during its CD, and at worst, you're only ever 5ish casts away), would do a lot to smooth out its inherent RNG bullshit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx174 View Post
    I thought i would share my opener that most times gives a 10 imp Thal'Kiels as an opener.
    Pre Pull
    DE - POT - DB|start|DB-DG-Hand(this also gets Doom up fast)-DE-DB-DB-DB-DB(by now(6) you should have DE proc)-DS-Hand-DE-Thal'
    There's not exactly a fixed opener because the DC proc is a bit RNG, and because your haste is relevant to how much you can squeeze in, and whether or not Hero/TW has been popped.

    As a general rule though, stand as max range and it should be feasible to get in two DBs before the pull (the second should fire off just before the timer hits 0), every extra one you cast is an extra 20% chance for the proc.

    As for the other stuff. If you really want to get doom in earlier drop it into your rotation before the DG, don't force a hand in out of place.

    The first part of the opener should always be the same - DE, Pot, pre-cast DB (x2) - start - DB to 5 - (doom) - [GoServ/Darkglare] - DG - DE - DB to 5 - Call DS (I'd cast is here even w/o DC proc) - HoG - DE - then it depends on haste/hero for how much more you can do.

    With 12.9k haste and TW I can comfortably hit 3xHand for 4/4/2 shards if DC procs or 2x4 with Call DS if it doesn't, giving me a baseline of 12-14 imps, 2 DS and a DG for my initial TKC.

    However, there's a wrinkle here. If you run GoSyn, then the proc from that becomes not just relevant but the ONLY IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD EVER. Your pet should hit at roughly 0s, and it usually procs synergy on you which (if it doesn't refresh) expires 15s into the fight. Look at that opener, it's basically 12s from when you hit the initial HoG (+Call DS), because that's how you optimise your 12s window that imps / DS live for, and you've got a minimum of 2 DBs (2s baseline), DG (GCD), DE (1.5s) plus the HoG / Call DS cast (because the 12s window doesn't start until it finishes) - even with ~40% haste, that's 1.45x2, 1.08x2 + 1.08 / 1.45 before your 12s starts - i.e. Synergy has gone.

    So basically, you have the option to cut your opener short, drop approximately 2 imps (DB casts) from a hand of Gul'dan and cast it within a synergy window or cast TKC without synergy:

    8x Imp (468k) + 2x Dreadstalker (1250kx2) + DG (1250k) + FG (1563k) = 9057k of demonic health * 8% = 724k * 1.4x damage = 1.01m
    OR
    10x Imp + 2x Dreadstalker + DG + FG = 9993k * 8% = 799k

    since each empowered imp is worth about 37.5k there will be a cross over point where synergy is worth losing, but it's the point at which TKC is dealing 187k damage without synergy. The Felguard alone is worth 131k to a TKC, and you'd need between 1 and 2 imps (1.6ish) to make the Synergy worth more extra damage than 2 more imps.

    Of course, that's not an argument for casting TKC with 2 imps only, but it shows just how important it is to synchronise TKC with synergy whenever possible. In fact, it's better to skip a whole HoG (ie you could cast Call DS + a shard HoG for a total of 4 imps with imp DS), and it'd do more damage with the synergy buff up than a 10 imp TKC without it.

    Hitting it with the full pet army is nice, but it is incredibly bad to prioritise it.
    Last edited by mmoc048f0e1535; 2016-12-09 at 03:14 AM.

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