Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Spiralphoenix]

Going by what Effin has posted and extrapolating the bonus to your cleave damage, it'll probably be even or slightly better at 2 targets already and easily be better for 3+ targets.

I thought for sure it would be better for even single target (mostly just going off of the typical % of damage I see the potion count for in my skada) but obviously it is hard to gauge deadly grace off of just looking at it without it being static stats and all.

Also, another thing to consider is that Deadly Grace only gets its full duration with no enemies nearby you (though I've never tested/read about how that works precisely), and it might not be possible to always fulfill that. I assume simcraft uses the full duration always. And as you mention of course in multi-target situations prolonged power should take the lead.

Thanks for simming that effin. I think making those + 2 hr flasks perk is worth me picking up Alchemy for sure. JC (what I'd be dropping) sort of seems pointless in comparison, though switching will probably feel less important once prices drop in 7.1.

[Azortharion]

From dummy testing, Deadly Grace's "distance" for the +5s extension is just a minimum of 5 yards. So "not melee".

[Effinhunter]

Wowhead says Deadly Grace is 20 RPPM, any idea if that's accurate? If it is, and assuming I understand RPPM correctly, it makes me wonder how many targets we'll need to be hitting (and I guess how much of the minute duration we'll be hitting them) before the blood of sargeras stat potion is superior to a Deadly Grace potion, since it doesn't scale with multiple targets.

Looking over logs, I've seen the procs range for all classes from just 10 over 2 usages to 60. Hunters have a lower range of procs that can go from between 12 to as much as 35 (that's the most I've personally seen in logs). Crit rating can be highly variable if you get few procs, but for most of our recent kills, if you get 20+ hits, crit percentage has been between 25-40%.

Mages tend to get the most value out of Deadly Grace. Because of how their CDs interact, fire mage crit percentage (they gear for crit) is roughly double and they also appear to get way more procs. From looking over our mage parses, our 3 mages get between 35 and 55 procs a fight (2 potion usages) at between 65-75% crit chance. This causes a huge disparity between hunters and other classes compared to fire mages in deadly grace contribution unless you just get stupid lucky with luck streaks.

P.S. If you are looking for how many procs happened in your own logs, go to Damage Done and look at Abilities->Deadly Grace for a breakdown of your raiders.

[Thursley]

Looking over logs, I've seen the procs range for all classes from just 10 over 2 usages to 60. Hunters have a lower range of procs that can go from between 12 to as much as 35 (that's the most I've personally seen in logs). Crit rating can be highly variable if you get few procs, but for most of our recent kills, if you get 20+ hits, crit percentage has been between 25-40%.

Mages tend to get the most value out of Deadly Grace. Because of how their CDs interact, fire mage crit percentage (they gear for crit) is roughly double and they also appear to get way more procs. From looking over our mage parses, our 3 mages get between 35 and 55 procs a fight (2 potion usages) at between 65-75% crit chance. This causes a huge disparity between hunters and other classes compared to fire mages in deadly grace contribution unless you just get stupid lucky with luck streaks.

P.S. If you are looking for how many procs happened in your own logs, go to Damage Done and look at Abilities->Deadly Grace for a breakdown of your raiders.

That's all quite interesting, but not really the core of the core of the question I was getting at. It's clear Deadly Grace isn't as good for us as it is for some other classes, but that didn't matter in practice because it was our only option regardless of the situation. But 7.1 gives us an alternative. I'm not surprised by your results that show it as less effective on single target (I'm guessing part of the reason blizzard made it is to be a budget option for potion usage, similar to cheap enchants or gems), but since it's a simple stat boost instead of the unusual proc of Deadly Grace, it actual scales with multiple targets (and my earlier question was really just about if Deadly Grace was actually RPPM, which would mean it doesn't scale with more targets). So the question was if you're going to use a potion during cleave or AOE, how many targets need to be getting hit over the course of the minute duration for the new potion to beat out Deadly Grace?

[Effinhunter]

You asked about the RPPM and if it was accurate. Someone already posted about the number of targets. I was trying to address your question about the RPPM and what we actually tend to see in raids.

I'll do sims on the breakpoints when I get time (maybe today).

[Thursley]

You asked about the RPPM and if it was accurate. Someone already posted about the number of targets. I was trying to address your question about the RPPM and what we actually tend to see in raids.

I'll do sims on the breakpoints when I get time (maybe today).

Apologies, I must have missed it.

[Effinhunter]

New potion in 2-5 target scenarios for MM.

Two Targets, 450s +/- 20%, 50k iterations


Three Targets, 450s +/- 20%, 50k iterations


Four Targets, 450s +/- 20%, 50k iterations


Five Targets, 450s +/- 20%, 50k iterations


Same source as earlier. As someone noted earlier, 3 targets is where the new potion pulls ahead. Not a bad potion to bring with you in Mythic+, especially.

[Whiskeyriver]

Effin,

Do you have the sims for pots/food for BM available?

Thanks

[Deleted]

Having problem finding straight answer

Is it worth it replacing haste (545) / mastery (1362) ring with Sephuz's Secret - 1552 crit / 620 haste ?

[Spiralphoenix]

Having problem finding straight answer

Is it worth it replacing haste (545) / mastery (1362) ring with Sephuz's Secret - 1552 crit / 620 haste ?

https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/pawn

+

http://pastebin.com/EpdZ5Y3D

[Echion]

Effin,

Do you have the sims for pots/food for BM available?

Thanks

He doesn't sim BM anymore. He's switched to the dark side after being somewhat of a proponent at the start.

[Amko]

Hi,

World Quest Item Level 835 Agility+Mastery + 150 Mastery Gem vs Oakhearts Gnarled Root Item Lvl 860?

Simcraft saying, oakheart is like 13k DPS better at single target.

What do you guys think?

The other trinket slot is bloodthirsty instinct itemlevel 860 + Gem Socket! This one is staying of course!

[Krazzorx]

He doesn't sim BM anymore. He's switched to the dark side after being somewhat of a proponent at the start.

Hmm? Aren't the ones on page 1 fully updated? For both BM and sv.

[Finbezz]

Hi,

World Quest Item Level 835 Agility+Mastery + 150 Mastery Gem vs Oakhearts Gnarled Root Item Lvl 860?

Simcraft saying, oakheart is like 13k DPS better at single target.

What do you guys think?

The other trinket slot is bloodthirsty instinct itemlevel 860 + Gem Socket! This one is staying of course!

oakheart and it's not even close

[Mackk]

Is there knowledge of how well the new kara trinkets are going to do?

[Agiliter]

last improvements for 7.0.3 mm apl.
pastebin.com/b6HraRYz

[Effinhunter]

He doesn't sim BM anymore. He's switched to the dark side after being somewhat of a proponent at the start.

I've kept the main sims for both SV and BM updated. However, I'm in a bit of a time crunch in real life that requires more of my time than I had at the start of the expansion. I'll try to get BM potion sims soon. Since agility is more powerful for BM, I expect the new potion to be very powerful for BM.

Before the start of an expansion, I look at all specs with a fresh set of eyes and sim each thoroughly, and I continue to look at them throughout the expansion. I never was a proponent of BM. I was just never against it. I'm very neutral about specs. If the numbers are there, the numbers are there.

- - - Updated - - -

BM potions, single target, 450s +/- 20%, 50k iterations, Simcraft Source


Simcraft appears to be working with the 7.1 settings/abilities now. So, I did not have to use a custom tabard for the potion. As I said before, the new potion should be best for BM in all target configurations, scaling in the way you should expect from scale factors (it's a very simple stat interaction with agility, with zero RPPM involved).

[Yhcti]

Guys with 7.1 insight, is Survival in any way shape or form viablew in some way coming 7.1? The whole idea of the spec looks great, just a shame its poor performance atm...

[Renley]

Are the sims for Fishbrul based on it scaling with mastery or not(tooltip VS actual), since it doesn't appear to actually scale.

[Jayeazy]

it seems that barrage is a waste on opener considering its cast time and low DPET, when we are still pretty much overfocused

I think there is some merit to this, like a 600dps difference over a fight or 4k in a 15 sec opener sim. Obviously still better to open with it on more than 1 target.

last improvements for 7.0.3 mm apl. pastebin.com/b6HraRYz

I was splitting my apl into ps and non ps groups to simplify some of the lines for each and included the changes, one already mentioned being the barrage move.

Dropped some groups that were now easier to work into the split groups but the behavior should be the same unless I found something else working better. Looked more into the Patient Sniper alternatives anticipating the patch, some builds are closer now but nothing jumped ahead of PS/SW. Didn't include sims since the latest simc has the wrong stack count on the new Vulnerable which made all the non patient sniper builds way higher than they should be.

Also figured out a way to cleanly check other targets for vulnerable times without getting warnings by using cycle_targets, so it won't be hacked out this time and pretty much every build benefits from it.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Ja...ter/mm_apl.txt