[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[dcc626]

I'm not talking about a spec either being FoTM or not.

I'm literally talking about the spells and toolkit a brewmaster has, literally can change from worthless to broken good on a boss to boss basis.

im also not talking about specs being FoTM or not. im talking about blizzards inability to find a middle ground in anything. its either too good or not useful.

[Geodude07]

It's almost like no one at blizzard actually plays and understands brewmaster.

Oh wait, that's exactly the case which is why everything a brewmaster has is either brokenly good or completely worthless depending on the situation. There is no middle ground.

Remember when they actually thought that capping stagger at 100% was a good way to balance brewmaster? That wasn't just an off hand mistake either, it got published publicly and took quite a few pages of discussion before it could even be overturned.

Honestly i'm just happy the class works when I think about things like that. It doesn't really make me feel too great about the tier set though. I don't really understand the logic behind "let's try and invalidate a legendary everyone really wants/has" over doing something dynamic and possibly even fun or at least desirable.

[dcc626]

Remember when they actually thought that capping stagger at 100% was a good way to balance brewmaster? That wasn't just an off hand mistake either, it got published publicly and took quite a few pages of discussion before it could even be overturned.

Honestly i'm just happy the class works when I think about things like that. It doesn't really make me feel too great about the tier set though. I don't really understand the logic behind "let's try and invalidate a legendary everyone really wants/has" over doing something dynamic and possibly even fun or at least desirable.

just pretend BfA starts 1 tier sooner. thats what im doing.

[Felixphaeton]

Remember when they actually thought that capping stagger at 100% was a good way to balance brewmaster? That wasn't just an off hand mistake either, it got published publicly and took quite a few pages of discussion before it could even be overturned.

100% stagger cap
18 second BoS
T21 4pc bonus
ISB uptime

Considering how many times Blizzard has proven themselves to have literally zero understanding of this spec, it's a miracle we're as good as we are.

[dhays]

Is there a break point where I take the T21 set over the T20 tier set? I know for right now content feels so much.... not necessarily easier but smoother when using T20 and was wondering if anyone has done any exploration in it yet.

[A-sayo]

The only T21 pieces that are nice to get are the pants and the head which have good stats. The 4T21 is useless if you have the chest.

[Tech614]

Is there a break point where I take the T21 set over the T20 tier set? I know for right now content feels so much.... not necessarily easier but smoother when using T20 and was wondering if anyone has done any exploration in it yet.

If you have lego chest 4 piece is a complete waste in all situations, and only 2 pieces of the set have good stat optimization so no, there is never a point where you will ever want 4 piece. Even in a niche situation where you're not using the chest or don't have it the 4 piece still isn't that good.

I think most are going to hope to get 2 strong TF pieces of t20. 4 piece isn't that big of a deal to replace once you get a big enough ilvl jump but playing without t20 2 piece just feels terrible after having it.

[dhays]

If you have lego chest 4 piece is a complete waste in all situations, and only 2 pieces of the set have good stat optimization so no, there is never a point where you will ever want 4 piece. Even in a niche situation where you're not using the chest or don't have it the 4 piece still isn't that good.

I think most are going to hope to get 2 strong TF pieces of t20. 4 piece isn't that big of a deal to replace once you get a big enough ilvl jump but playing without t20 2 piece just feels terrible after having it.

I know T21 is useless. Before we started handing tier out I told them WW right away, BrM in the garbage can. I main WW and tank on optional nights or if a main tank is absent for whatever reason so I have both 4 T21 and 4 T20 available to me. As of right now they are both close in iLvL so I use T20 as it feels better like you said. There has to be situation where ilvl trumps whether it is 50ilvl, 100ilvl or 200ilvl or something in between.

BTW I do not have leggo chest. I usually use Prydaz/Stagger Ring.

[Deleted]

I need help with brewmaster strat for Varimatras HC
Our BrM just got demolished in normal on the first week, to the point of someone raging and stepping in as a tank(warrior)
And he is a kind of person who does not want to research in advance....which drives me mad.
So what is the best advice of a strategy i can suggest to him? (we don't have a Disc Priest)He has all the legendarys and trinkets from ToS.

[Deleted]

Pause stagger when missery hits.

[A-sayo]

Do you have any logs so we can see what he's doing wrong ?

Aside from that, since you're in normal, tell him to do the following :
- Tanks always stack on each other and never move for the entire fight ;
- Use Class ring (Mystic Vita + Dampen Harm) and Chest/Archimonde legendaries (Trinket if he really doesn't feel confident as an extra cooldown).
- Take Blackout Combo talent.
- Tankswap should happen as soon as the debuff is applied on the tank ;
- Keep ISB up whenever he tanks the boss (although he shouldn't have any problem having near 100% uptime on it).
- When getting swiped, don't use Expel Harm yet : wait for the debuff to drop.
- After getting swiped, use Blackout Kick into ISB. This will stop the stagger bleeding for 3 sec. Doing it once should be enough to survive until misery drops, but he can BoK > ISB one more time if he's really low.

Apart from that, the boss is a tank&spank.

[PinDrop]

I need help with brewmaster strat for Varimatras HC
Our BrM just got demolished in normal on the first week, to the point of someone raging and stepping in as a tank(warrior)
And he is a kind of person who does not want to research in advance....which drives me mad.
So what is the best advice of a strategy i can suggest to him? (we don't have a Disc Priest)He has all the legendarys and trinkets from ToS.

Purify right after the swipe hits, twice if he has the charges and stagger is still high. Even if its not red. If stagger is higher than his current health after the hit, purify. He won't die, and will save healer mana and stress. Use Fortifying proactively too, it'll last the whole duration of him tanking, hitting it after or just before the swipe will do next to nothing, right as he taunts is best. As I explained above, pausing is a waste of a brew in this situation, and only delays the damage instead of removing it. Suddenly taking heavy ticks while the other tank is already getting hit will panic the healers, have him take care of it himself with purify. Expel right after Misery ends(or strafe if tanks are stacked, harder to do this in heroic) and they'll be even happier.

[Gorsameth]

I need help with brewmaster strat for Varimatras HC
Our BrM just got demolished in normal on the first week, to the point of someone raging and stepping in as a tank(warrior)
And he is a kind of person who does not want to research in advance....which drives me mad.
So what is the best advice of a strategy i can suggest to him? (we don't have a Disc Priest)He has all the legendarys and trinkets from ToS.

Archimond trinket, Prydaz. Another absorb trinket if he has it.

Purify after the shadow strike.

[Tech614]

I can see Vari causing issues for a few pulls on heroic for brewmasters but normal?

If he is really dying on normal Var there is probably bigger issues then him not understanding how to play the fight. While people are giving good advice for the fight, literally none of that is necessary for the normal version and he has to be messing up something vital to playing the class for normal to even be an issue.

[Raiz]

Purify right after the swipe hits, twice if he has the charges and stagger is still high. Even if its not red. If stagger is higher than his current health after the hit, purify. He won't die, and will save healer mana and stress. Use Fortifying proactively too, it'll last the whole duration of him tanking, hitting it after or just before the swipe will do next to nothing, right as he taunts is best. As I explained above, pausing is a waste of a brew in this situation, and only delays the damage instead of removing it. Suddenly taking heavy ticks while the other tank is already getting hit will panic the healers, have him take care of it himself with purify. Expel right after Misery ends(or strafe if tanks are stacked, harder to do this in heroic) and they'll be even happier.

Care to elaborate why is it a waste ? A lot of BRM I know use TP after BoS, so there is no brew's waste. Unless I'm missing something ?

[PinDrop]

Care to elaborate why is it a waste ? A lot of BRM I know use TP after BoS, so there is no brew's waste. Unless I'm missing something ?

If you pause, you don't get the buffed TP, because the BoS combo is used by ISB in order to pause. So that's firstly a dps loss. Using the brew to pause stops your stagger for 3 seconds, then the stagger still hits you. Pausing is typically only worthwhile when you can use it while you are taking heavy damage, to make a following purify remove much more. With Varimathras, your co-tank will taunt right after the swipe, so you stop taking outside damage, your stagger will not get any higher, and in this situation, purifying away what you have will do much more for your survival than a scant 3 seconds of delay, when misery lasts for 8. That's why I consider it a waste.

[Caprix]

I have not tanked it yet as i only do very occasionnal off tanking as second spec, but i think the point is that you are going to spend these 2 ISB each 16s anyway so why not cast them empowered under the heal debuff? You're "only" wasting dps by doing so. Can still purify too if if feels needed. So same damage taken but almost never when you can't be healed.

Unless you plan to not keep 100% isb uptime (not up when the boss doesn't hit you) for more purifies of course

[Deleted]

If you pause, you don't get the buffed TP, because the BoS combo is used by ISB in order to pause. So that's firstly a dps loss. Using the brew to pause stops your stagger for 3 seconds, then the stagger still hits you. Pausing is typically only worthwhile when you can use it while you are taking heavy damage, to make a following purify remove much more. With Varimathras, your co-tank will taunt right after the swipe, so you stop taking outside damage, your stagger will not get any higher, and in this situation, purifying away what you have will do much more for your survival than a scant 3 seconds of delay, when misery lasts for 8. That's why I consider it a waste.

You can easily stop stagger for 6 seconds on every swap and 2 seconds of stagger without healing won't kill you, but 8 seconds usually will after already taking such a big hit. Also using BoS TP costs you only a little bit of damage, while purifying costs you brews which, without a special setup will probably have you run dry if the fight goes moderately long.

[Lord Baz]

Anyone tanked felhounds on mythic ? struggling here to survive on when having opposite debuff

hits so fucking hard

[PinDrop]

You can easily stop stagger for 6 seconds on every swap and 2 seconds of stagger without healing won't kill you, but 8 seconds usually will after already taking such a big hit. Also using BoS TP costs you only a little bit of damage, while purifying costs you brews which, without a special setup will probably have you run dry if the fight goes moderately long.

I mean, both strategies work, use whatever makes you feel comfortable. My raid's healers need all the relief they can get, so I prefer to remove the damage myself. I still pause if my health is dangerously low after the hit, however. I wouldn't call Black out Brew a 'special setup', either, as that's all you need to keep ISB up, even with one or two purifies every swipe. This fight is actually a real good one to monitor your ISB timers, and try to 'not' refresh it if it will expire just after the swipe, as you don't need it until you taunt again, and that will free up more brews.

I originally thought this fight was terrible for Brewmasters, now I'm starting to think it is actually one of the most fun, as there's room for more optimization and buff management rather than "keep ISB up, gj boss is dead."