[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Kuriyama]

Ok trying to figure this out, I just got my 4p finally from ToS (yes my luck is horrible and guild is ass about loot). From what I've read, Zeal sounds overall like the talent to take over TFoJ. But would it be affected by legendary choices since my normal ones are belt/cloak? Or does cloak get swapped for liadrin ring instead for more HP during crusade instead of the normal TV/DS boost?

Single target fight - Zeal + BoJ
3+ target fight - TFoJ + DH

As for leggos, sim it. 2p T19 and 4p T20 is our best set so you'd use Ring/Belt, but only if the T19 pieces are high enough to be competitive with ToS gear (basically Mythic or HC TF ilevels).

Personally I find myself hardly using Zeal in my rotation, if I'm lucky with BoW procs so you definitely don't want TFoJ with 4P as you'd probably waste HP.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Zeal if you're not taking DH
that is all.

[Shavier]

I am using cape and belt so I am using TFoJ + BoW. When I was testing with my gear dmg is same, everything I loose from TVs is going to Zeal's dmg. Waste of HP? No I don't think so. When my Bow procs end I am thankful I have 2 CS charges so I can continue my cape buff (especially when +HP procs) while with Zeal there are moments where I don't have anything to press for 2sec+ which is bad. But that's my opinion and how it's working for me.

[Reith]

I am using cape and belt so I am using TFoJ + BoW. When I was testing with my gear dmg is same, everything I loose from TVs is going to Zeal's dmg. Waste of HP? No I don't think so. When my Bow procs end I am thankful I have 2 CS charges so I can continue my cape buff (especially when +HP procs) while with Zeal there are moments where I don't have anything to press for 2sec+ which is bad. But that's my opinion and how it's working for me.

Don't use Zeal with BoW unless you have T20 4P. Some people aren't thinking when responding and parrot the discord's recommendations without context.

[Deleted]

Don't use Zeal with BoW unless you have T20 4P. Some people aren't thinking when responding and parrot the discord's recommendations without context.

Even before 4 set the Zeal+boW combo can net you higher ST dps depending on your haste level assuming you arent using the legendary cloak though since with that tfoj+BoW will almost always win out for ST until you get 4 set from ToS

[Shavier]

Well, I have T20 4p and 28% haste and like I said, for my gear and lovely cape Zeal+BoW is worse than TFoJ+BoW, only time Zeal+BoW can win is when you are using Liadrin and T19 2p witch I don't use, I hate using the ring and I have very good rings and bad set cape. Like I said, sim what is better for you and try it on stormwind dummy next to rat (best place without cleave, tho rat tend to get in range of judgg sometimes, which I hate and boggles me why would they place them there)

[Ulthane]

Question: Why does Chain + Liadrins rank higher than Chain + Highlords ring? Wouldn't Crusade + Divine Purpose be a gain or is there something I am missing in regard to Liadrins?

[Reith]

Question: Why does Chain + Liadrins rank higher than Chain + Highlords ring? Wouldn't Crusade + Divine Purpose be a gain or is there something I am missing in regard to Liadrins?

Secondary stats and the extra holy power helps when you're not getting lots of BoW procs. Soul has higher peaks though, and is better for AOE in general.

[Fargus]

Any more changes down the line to make ret more competent? Or have Blizzard said "nah fuck it, let's buff other classes instead".

[Morally Grey Storm]

Retribution is balance.
Why would you ask for more changes.

[Reith]

Any more changes down the line to make ret more competent? Or have Blizzard said "nah fuck it, let's buff other classes instead".

Not recently. Even if the recent Cons buff hasn't been implemented on the tooltip, it's still only on par with live, so all we have is the small buff to all damage abilities, a slightly bigger buff for Divine Hammer and Execution Sentence, the 0.5 second decrease on AW traits and that's it. Justicar's Vengeance looks to be one of the least affected, which is kind-of a shame for a 5 HP ability that isn't affected by echos..

[lusciifi]

I'm getting the following stat weights when I sim myself:

Crit=23.65
Vers=22.87
Str=18.90
Mastery=16.66
Haste=15.13

Does it make any sense at all that haste is my lowest stat even behind mastery. Should I just ignore what the sim is telling me and stick with haste>all?

[ThePants999]

Question: Why does Chain + Liadrins rank higher than Chain + Highlords ring? Wouldn't Crusade + Divine Purpose be a gain or is there something I am missing in regard to Liadrins?

Of course Crusade + Divine Purpose is a gain - Chain+Highlord's is still great! It's just not quite as good as Chain+Liadrin's because Chain and Liadrin's both specifically boost Crusade and therefore have a sort of multiplicative effect when paired together, while Highlord's gives you smoothed-out value.

Should I just ignore what the sim is telling me and stick with haste>all?

No, why would you? Haste is not > all.

[lusciifi]

Well I thought the general consensus was that mastery was by far our worst stat so its surprising to see it not in last. I know that haste can sometimes be a volatile stat and fluctuates greatly with small changes in the amount you currently have. Are others rets seeing the same thing around 28% haste?

[Reith]

Well I thought the general consensus was that mastery was by far our worst stat so its surprising to see it not in last. I know that haste can sometimes be a volatile stat and fluctuates greatly with small changes in the amount you currently have. Are others rets seeing the same thing around 28% haste?

It'll go up again around 30-31% then it'll go back down a bit. It's fairly typical.

[Tonyman64]

Well I thought the general consensus was that mastery was by far our worst stat so its surprising to see it not in last. I know that haste can sometimes be a volatile stat and fluctuates greatly with small changes in the amount you currently have. Are others rets seeing the same thing around 28% haste?

Mastery is generally the worst, not necessarily always. And the values of the stats vary a lot and very rapidly as your stats change.

[Svetyac]

Question: Why does Chain + Liadrins rank higher than Chain + Highlords ring? Wouldn't Crusade + Divine Purpose be a gain or is there something I am missing in regard to Liadrins?

The thing is that Highlord's is not that high on secondary stats and it has Mastery on it. The sims also take into account ideal use of the Liadrin's HP generation which is not realistic as you will prolly waste few of them during crusade which brings the value of the ring down, as opposed to a DP proc which has a 8 sec window to be used and is (almost) never wasted.

Personally I prefer Highlord's over Liadrin's.

Also, with the 7.3 changes:
- buffing of mastery
- nerfing crusade (WotA) length

Liadrin's will lose more of its value while Highlord's will gain value, meaning it has the potential to become BiS (if you take into account the nerft to the belt 55% additional damage VS the current 59% additional dmg during crusade), the new BiS combo might turn out to be Back + Highlord's.

[Anardel]

I think the nerf to Crusade's duration is because with Netherlight Crucible we are going to take WotA traits so globally the duration will be the same as on Live now. Without the nerf and the Netherlight Crucible our Crusade will remain like 40 seconds xD

[killwithpwr]

I think the nerf to Crusade's duration is because with Netherlight Crucible we are going to take WotA traits so globally the duration will be the same as on Live now. Without the nerf and the Netherlight Crucible our Crusade will remain like 40 seconds xD

The Crucible does not work that way...

If you have a WoTA trait on a Relic, it will not give you WoTA again in the Crucible...

[Shavier]

I don't think we will receive any more buffs until 7.3.5 (maybe small hotfix changes) but seeing how blizz treats ret I don't have any expectations anymore, we have bubble, more dmg (or fluid gameplay) would be to op. Sad thing is my Arms 909 without bis legos is doing similar stable dmg, to be expected since they don't have burst, than my 931, it feels more fun and less punishing than Holy Power juggling with no mobility but still I'm ret in heart and will never switch main, I rather stop playing.