[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Reith]

Deal with what?
With you trying to squelch unhappy and sceptical opinions?

Flat-earthers are not skeptics, no matter how skeptical they are of the fact that the Earth is an oblate spheroid.

[Gohzerlock]

1 : "It's only alpha bro, stop with the sky is falling attitude."

2 : "It's only beta, there are so many changes to be made... these ones will never go live."

3 : "They'll fix x and y before release, no need to complain."

4 : "I really hope they patch these things, I guess they didn't get enough feedback in alpha or beta."

5 : "I hear warriors are doing well."

[Morally Grey Storm]

Flat-earthers are not skeptics, no matter how skeptical they are of the fact that the Earth is an oblate spheroid.

Irrelevant analogy.

Please do point me at a time our concerns regarding retribution were unjustified and didn’t come true.
Would you please kindly.

[Reith]

1 : "It's only alpha bro, stop with the sky is falling attitude."

2 : "It's only beta, there are so many changes to be made... these ones will never go live."

3 : "They'll fix x and y before release, no need to complain."

4 : "I really hope they patch these things, I guess they didn't get enough feedback in alpha or beta."

5 : "I hear warriors are doing well."

Sorry, I'm not on that side of the fence, either. Poor irrational guys with no one to argue against. I feel sorry for you. :/

[Swampmoose]

There is no point in talking with a whiteknight he just is not going to see things for what they are and have been since the game came out. I personally cant see why people even bother playing ret in Legion anymore its horrible to play(just in terms of gameplay) and somehow they let the only thing that made ret bearable to play in Legion not a part of the base which was the T20 4P.

I don't understand why some of you are still here if the game/class has been so unbearable for so long. Ret is a functional spec right now. It certainly needs tweaks if it were to keep it's current style, but it's playable. The lack of raid utility, iconic functions (seals, auras), etc may suck as well, but none of that makes the class unplayable. Go pick a new class if you find it so horrible and have zero faith that it will change. Plenty of options, although judging by your signature, you're just a pessimist in general and that wouldn't please you either.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I don't understand why some of you are still here if the game/class has been so unbearable for so long. Ret is a functional spec right now. It certainly needs tweaks if it were to keep it's current style, but it's playable. The lack of raid utility, iconic functions (seals, auras), etc may suck as well, but none of that makes the class unplayable. Go pick a new class if you find it so horrible and have zero faith that it will change. Plenty of options, although judging by your signature, you're just a pessimist in general and that wouldn't please you either.

playable =\= enjoyable
playable =\= good
playable =\= strong
playable =\= interesting

[Swampmoose]

playable =\= enjoyable
playable =\= good
playable =\= strong
playable =\= interesting

Enjoyable and interesting are subjective. Like I said, if you find the class to be neither, go play something you do find interesting or enjoyable rather than crying about every. single. thing. about the class. I personally have always and will always enjoy playing a Paladin.

As for strong...WoW players live by the same words as idiot Nascar driver Ricky Bobby. "If you're not first, you're last." Everyone can't be at the top. Ret is middle of the road. If you can't handle that and have to be at the top, again, go play whatever is at the top. No one is forcing you to play something that most of you apparently can't stand in any way, shape, or form.

The fact that you're still here though implies you either do find the class somewhat enjoyable, good, whatever, or you have hopes that it will be made better in BFA, despite the fact that you constantly say otherwise. No one in their right mind would continue to do something they hate and are certain will never improve.

[Jester Joe]

Dude, quit your crying when they haven't even made a development pass on ret yet. When it's near launch and it's still crap, then you can start whining. What you should be doing is discussing things on the WoW forums right now if you want anything done.

I would agree more with this if it wasn't for the fact that Holy Wrath went live, and stayed there for an entire expansion at this point.

I have nothing against current Ret in terms of hate, my gripes are more of Divine Steed is still on the GCD and that they copy and pasted Arms mastery.
But I don't think it's fair to say 'wait til launch', because speaking up sooner is better than when its too late.

[Reith]

I would agree more with this if it wasn't for the fact that Holy Wrath went live, and stayed there for an entire expansion at this point.

That was a special situation where particular developers were really stubborn about it. It wasn't even viable to use anyway (small consolation, but still).

But I don't think it's fair to say 'wait til launch', because speaking up sooner is better than when its too late.

I didn't say wait 'til launch to discuss things that you'd like to see changed and/or improved, I said wait 'till launch to whine about it. It's right in my post you quoted:

What you should be doing is discussing things on the WoW forums right now if you want anything done.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Enjoyable and interesting are subjective. Like I said, if you find the class to be neither, go play something you do find interesting or enjoyable rather than crying about every. single. thing. about the class. I personally have always and will always enjoy playing a Paladin.

Like I said , I am not playing this shitstain of a spec.
But you are free to realise there is a difference between crying and providing criticizm.
I personally will always provide said criticizm and perspective whether you like it or not.

As for strong...WoW players live by the same words as idiot Nascar driver Ricky Bobby.

as for generalisation...do not generalise.

Ret is middle of the road. If you can't handle that and have to be at the top, again, go play whatever is at the top.

Ret is never around the top.
Ret is never in a good shape. Even you did not argue that enjoyable does not equal good.
Ret is never top-viable unless you work like a coal miner.
Ret is never decently balanced in PvP.

The point is not to play "whatever is at the top", if you so fail to realise.
The point is to make this one spec better , more enjoyable and more viable and simply, actually, good.

No one is forcing you to play something that most of you apparently can't stand in any way, shape, or form.

Quite otherwise - someone is forcing me to play "whatever is at the top".
Someone is forcing me to stop providing criticizm and perspective.
This certain someone will not succeed.

The fact that you're still here though implies you either do find the class somewhat enjoyable, good, whatever, or you have hopes that it will be made better in BFA, despite the fact that you constantly say otherwise. No one in their right mind would continue to do something they hate and are certain will never improve.

No. It is only implication. I do not find this epitome of decently balanced balance to be even slightly enjoyable or, God-Emperor forbid, good.
No, I do not hope for it to get better in BfA. Not anymore.

Which is why I am not playing Ret for half a year already. After 9 years of being Ret and Ret only.
I am playing Arms, which is actually around the middle of the road, and feel great.

- - - Updated - - -

That was a special situation where particular developers were really stubborn about it. It wasn't even viable to use anyway (small consolation, but still).

Doesn't change the fact they are really professional, hardcore professionals which are always keen to listen to Ret players feedback as a whole.

I didn't say wait 'til launch to discuss things that you'd like to see changed and/or improved, I said wait 'till launch to whine about it. It's right in my post you quoted:

Why would you deny us the right to provide opinions till launch?

Also, please do not mistake opinions and criticizm with whine.

What you should be doing is discussing things on the WoW forums right now if you want anything done

Hence us discussing it on this very WoW forum.

[Deleted]

Past experience has shown that blizz doesn't give a single fuck about rets. Yes it's still alpha, but experience has shown that alpha ret will most liekly be our live ret, with some -not really good- adjustments. It's not crying, it's facts. Even if it is, sometimes crying leads to actual changes soo, why not?

"Why do you still play ret?" Well, i suppose noone cares why i do still play ret but the reason is that it has been my main since vanilla, has all the reps exalted, all quests done, plenty of achievements (even feat of strength) and i just can't be arsed changing classes.

I have all the other classes levelled to 110 and still don't wanna change mains. Not that i don't enjoy other specs but i have invested so much time on my paladin that i really don't wanna see it go to waste.

[Reith]

Why would you deny us the right to provide opinions till launch?

Also, please do not mistake opinions and criticizm with whine.

Hence us discussing it on this very WoW forum.

If you want to cry about it effectively, do it on the official WoW forums, not this one - although they're not likely to listen to antagonistically-sarcastic whining anyway, no offense but you know that's your forte lol. Do I want Seals back? Yeah, I'd like Seals back. Do I want Hammer of Wrath back? Yeah, I want it back - but they're not going to just roll the clock back and implement everything we had in a previous expansion exactly as it was. We should focus on telling them specific things we liked about previous gameplay that could be incorporated into ret's current gameplay without too much hassle. They don't have as many developers as they used to, it sucks, but that's how it is. Some specs got glossed over for the entire expansion, and it wasn't just ret.

[Morally Grey Storm]

If you want to cry about it effectively, do it on the official WoW forums, not this one - although they're not likely to listen to antagonistically-sarcastic whining anyway, no offense but you know that's your forte lol. Do I want Seals back? Yeah, I'd like Seals back. Do I want Hammer of Wrath back? Yeah, I want it back - but they're not going to just roll the clock back and implement everything we had in a previous expansion exactly as it was. We should focus on telling them specific things we liked about previous gameplay that could be incorporated into ret's current gameplay without too much hassle. They don't have as many developers as they used to, it sucks, but that's how it is. Some specs got glossed over for the entire expansion, and it wasn't just ret.

No.
I want you to provide your credentials over ordering me what and where I should post.
I want you to provide criteria under which you deem it plausible to belittle my feedback, tagging it with low blows like “crying” and “whining “.
I want you to provide a single reason for me to treat you like a decent person when you have already shown how you treat and view me.
I want you to provide a reason to actually bother and try to have a fruitful conversation with a “middle grounder” that is you.

[Swampmoose]

Like I said , I am not playing this shitstain of a spec.

Then why are you still here flooding this place with useless negativity?

Why would you deny us the right to provide opinions till launch?

Also, please do not mistake opinions and criticizm with whine.

"Spec shadow or demonology." "It's only alpha, don't you worry". - Whining, not useful criticism.

Ret is never in a good shape. Even you did not argue that enjoyable does not equal good.

"Good" is vague and subjective as well. Not going to try and guess what "good" means to one person. Judging by the 8.0 wishes thread, most people think that adding Hammer of Wrath back to the game will make the class "good."

Ret is never around the top.

It was in Wrath which is why people constantly reference that expac as where they want Ret to be. As I said, they can't handle being anywhere lower than the top.

Which is why I am not playing Ret for half a year already. After 9 years of being Ret and Ret only.
I am playing Arms, which is actually around the middle of the road, and feel great.

The difference between Arms and Ret is so little it's not even significant. If it feels better and that's why you chose it, great, but let's not pretend the difference in dps is game changing.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

If you want to cry about it effectively, do it on the official WoW forums, not this one - although they're not likely to listen to antagonistically-sarcastic whining anyway, no offense but you know that's your forte lol. Do I want Seals back? Yeah, I'd like Seals back. Do I want Hammer of Wrath back? Yeah, I want it back - but they're not going to just roll the clock back and implement everything we had in a previous expansion exactly as it was. We should focus on telling them specific things we liked about previous gameplay that could be incorporated into ret's current gameplay without too much hassle. They don't have as many developers as they used to, it sucks, but that's how it is. Some specs got glossed over for the entire expansion, and it wasn't just ret.

Stop being logical. You're making heads explode.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Then why are you still here flooding this place with useless negativity?

Then why should I not be here?
Define useless negativity, please.
Define useful negativity.
Please do point me at an example of criticizm and perspective you personally will allow here to float.
Please enlighten me.

"Spec shadow or demonology." "It's only alpha, don't you worry". - Whining, not useful criticism.

Sarcasm, not useless negativity.
Question: did you ever, ever even try to provide criticizm, much less - useful criticizm?
Then why would you criticize my approach to it?

"Good" is vague and subjective as well. Not going to try and guess what "good" means to one person. Judging by the 8.0 wishes thread, most people think that adding Hammer of Wrath back to the game will make the class "good."

Your judgement is flawed, then.

It was in Wrath which is why people constantly reference that expac as where they want Ret to be. As I said, they can't handle being anywhere lower than the top.

No, it was not.
Not in PvP, not in regards to Slaying of Scripted Dragons.
Check your facts before spewing lies, please thank you.

The difference between Arms and Ret is so little it's not even significant. If it feels better and that's why you chose it, great, but let's not pretend the difference in dps is game changing.
.

Let's not pretend I said anything about how game changing a difference in dps can be.

Stop being logical. You're making heads explode.

He was being one?
Anyone else aware of this fact?

[Swampmoose]

Then why should I not be here?
Define useless negativity, please.
Define useful negativity.
Please do point me at an example of criticizm and perspective you personally will allow here to float.
Please enlighten me.


Sarcasm, not useless negativity.
Question: did you ever, ever even try to provide criticizm, much less - useful criticizm?
Then why would you criticize my approach to it?


Your judgement is flawed, then.



No, it was not.
Not in PvP, not in regards to Slaying of Scripted Dragons.
Check your facts before spewing lies, please thank you.


Let's not pretend I said anything about how game changing a difference in dps can be.



He was being one?
Anyone else aware of this fact?

Lol.

/10char

[Morally Grey Storm]

Lol.

/10char

Thank you for relieving me from duty of trying to view and treat you like a decent opponent.

[Malthanis]

Let's take a step back and calm down, please.

[Swampmoose]

Thank you for relieving me from duty of trying to view and treat you like a decent opponent.

If you're going to try and play off "spec shadow or demonology" as anything other than "useless negativity" especially when in response to someone looking for genuine help, I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of, or responding to that wall of BS. Carry on with your delusion.

[Tijuana]

Flat-earthers are not skeptics, no matter how skeptical they are of the fact that the Earth is an oblate spheroid.

Flat earthers aren't even real. They are all trolling.

- - - Updated - - -

I would agree more with this if it wasn't for the fact that Holy Wrath went live, and stayed there for an entire expansion at this point.

I have nothing against current Ret in terms of hate, my gripes are more of Divine Steed is still on the GCD and that they copy and pasted Arms mastery.
But I don't think it's fair to say 'wait til launch', because speaking up sooner is better than when its too late.

Yeah, waiting until it launches to give feedback is a ludicrous idea. You could not be more correct, that now is the time.

On a side note, Holy Wrath being bad is one thing, but the fact that they used that name, of a formerly GLORIOUS spell that was taken away, is adding insult to injury.