[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Sigxy]

Fantastic changes so far. Talents look like they’re actually organized and interesting, hammer of wrath is back, inq is back for those who liked it (apparently a lot did if you look at the #reverttomop thing going on). Looks amazing, super hyped to test this.

I'm actually glad it's a talent since I hated that thing. >_> But I do like Haste so I'm feeling unsure now... see if it's that or Divine Purpose for me. Anything but Crusade. ;_:

[Morally Grey Storm]

Still waiting to see anything regarding Ret mobility.
My body is so fething ready for another batch of "immovable juggernaut" crap.

[Deleted]

Hammer of Wrath is back boys! :O :O :O

[Ryuji]

Actually, it's been buffed!

Execution Sentence (New) Deliver an execution sentence, dealing [ 140% of Attack Power ] Holy damage. Your Holy damage done against the target is increased by 25% for 10 sec. Retribution Paladin - Level 15 Talent. 3 Holy Power. 20 yd range. Instant.

So while it's on the target, you'll deal more holy damage on it.

Oh whoops, didn't see that. Ehhh, I still don't like Execution Sentence though. >_>

[Sigxy]

Oh whoops, didn't see that. Ehhh, I still don't like Execution Sentence though. >_>

Yeah, me neither. But at least it's more useful now. x_x

A shame that the greater judgment was nerfed.. no extra targets and it only works for those above 60% health. Guess it'll be the Templar's Verdict talent for me unless that Judgment damage is massive.

[Ryuji]

Yeah, me neither. But at least it's more useful now. x_x

A shame that the greater judgment was nerfed.. no extra targets and it only works for those above 60% health. Guess it'll be the Templar's Verdict talent for me unless that Judgment damage is massive.

I'm assuming it'll hit hard since it's holy damage and our mastery is being change to be flat holy damage % incrase, but it's got a long-ish CD still. Probably better off with the TV talent.

I'll likely end up going for Hammer of Wrath as well, though BoJ procs help a lot when wings is up and when it's down, not sure.

Probably gonna switch between Divine Vengeance for AoE and Wake for ST, or in the case of +s, just stick with Divine Vengeance, and likely just use Inquisition as the last tier option since we're losing longer wings duration.

[Deleted]

Also, seems like no DH anymore? And as ppl say who are on alpha, the whole cleave shit is gone, u either go full st spec or full aoe (3+ targets). Regardless, seems more fun and entertaining than before, would like to experiment myself but rip invite.

With that said, Inquisition might actually be good since wings's duration is nerfed but i really really HATE that talent...

[Ryuji]

Also, seems like no DH anymore? And as ppl say who are on alpha, the whole cleave shit is gone, u either go full st spec or full aoe (3+ targets). Regardless, seems more fun and entertaining than before, would like to experiment myself but rip invite.

With that said, Inquisition might actually be good since wings's duration is nerfed but i really really HATE that talent...

Well currently you don't use Divine Hammer anyway so long as you have 2 piece Tier 21. I've tried using DH with it but there's too many gaps in the rotation, feels clunky.

As far as going full ST or full AoE, it's likely because Blizzard wants you to change talents up instead of just lock into 1 default selection of talents and stick with that for a tier. Could be problematic(and kind of has been) in +s though.

[Reith]

They're on the right track here with these talents, somewhat. Consecration still as a talent though.. maybe if it moved around with you? Like, you consecrate the ground in a radius around you as you walk for X seconds, with an X second cooldown (reduced by haste). Keeps the ability basically the same but with a new spin on it that meshes well thematically. Probably have the duration half as long as the base cooldown, whatever they want to set it to. Would make it a bit more useful overall, as any kind of movement and consecration don't go well together at all.

- - - Updated - - -

I am still kinda irked there's no movement options there though, will have to see if they add anything to baseline stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm a little concerned about our utility situation if we're not getting any in the talents..

Oh and anyone else see that Justicar's Vengeance nerf that sneaked right by? Then they changed Word of Glory to yourself and 4 targets instead of yourself and 5 targets and upped the range to 30 yards. I'm actually hoping they remove the dumb charges.. it's fine if it still costs HP, you're still sacrificing some DPS to do some healing.

[Sigxy]

They're on the right track here with these talents, somewhat. Consecration still as a talent though.. maybe if it moved around with you? Like, you consecrate the ground in a radius around you as you walk for X seconds, with an X second cooldown (reduced by haste). Keeps the ability basically the same but with a new spin on it that meshes well thematically. Probably have the duration half as long as the base cooldown, whatever they want to set it to. Would make it a bit more useful overall, as any kind of movement and consecration don't go well together at all.

Back when we still used Glyphs to effect our spells in useful ways, there was a glyph that did make Consecration move around with us. So, yeah, if it's baseline it should be stuck on the spot - but if it's a talent, it should definitely be something that moves with you, I think.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Through the power of Wishful Thinking I command you to reveal thyself, Movement Tier!

[Reith]

Through the power of Wishful Thinking I command you to reveal thyself, Movement Tier!

If I were in the alpha..

Also anyone notice they halved the duration of the Retribution passive? At least they did SOMETHING to it..

[Deleted]

If I were in the alpha..

Also anyone notice they halved the duration of the Retribution passive? At least they did SOMETHING to it..

Yeah but, well, not enough. Just delete that spell already.

[Reith]

Yeah but, well, not enough. Just delete that spell already.

Would rather just see the damage component go away. I won't say no to 30% damage reduction, nobody sees that as a problem, and in fact it can let you live a little longer to potentially "avenge your fallen comrades," as they intended.

[Redblade]

Would rather just see the damage component go away. I won't say no to 30% damage reduction, nobody sees that as a problem, and in fact it can let you live a little longer to potentially "avenge your fallen comrades," as they intended.

Make it even stronger like 70-80% DR for 10 seconds so you can survive a boss hit or two. But yeah, remove the damage component it's stupid as fuck.

[Sigxy]

Selfless Healer (New) Row 6, Column 1. Spell: Selfless Healer

Selfless Healer is back, booooiz.

[Reith]

Selfless Healer (New) Row 6, Column 1. Spell: Selfless Healer

Selfless Healer is back, booooiz.

Good riddance to Judgment of Light as a talent. 30% extra seems a bit lackluster though, unless its base healing is more significant than in legion. Also the mana cost is not reduced? What the heck?

[Sigxy]

Good riddance to Judgment of Light as a talent. 30% extra seems a bit lackluster though, unless its base healing is more significant than in legion. Also the mana cost is not reduced? What the heck?

I'd still rather pick that talent over the rest, since JV got nerfed (Always loved using it on stunned targets with the +100% damage) and Word of Glory costs Holy Power. I guess the mana reduction could've been nice but, given how long it takes to cast 3 Judgments, I'm fine with it.

[Reith]

I'd still rather pick that talent over the rest, since JV got nerfed (Always loved using it on stunned targets with the +100% damage) and Word of Glory costs Holy Power. I guess the mana reduction could've been nice but, given how long it takes to cast 3 Judgments, I'm fine with it.

Selfless Healer was good because it was 60%. At 30%, it's not even worth using when you consider that Supplication (100% crit and 50% extra healing on a honorable or experience kill) is not here either, on top of a higher Judgment cooldown so you'll be having access to it less often, though that's not as big a deal.

The old Flash of Light was a bit stronger than the current one, probably around 20% more, so that's already 20% stronger. Then you factor in Supplication, that's 50% extra healing and 100% crit, 360% more effective than the current Flash of Light by itself. With Selfless Healer, that's 600%, with the current Flash of Light with Selfless Healer at 130% (260% IF you crit, probably 1/4 chance of that happening or less). Not worth using in PVE at all as it stands.

EDIT: Totally wrong about old Selfless Healer being 100%, it was actually 60%. Still, Supplication made it what it was.

[Astardiel]

Selfless Healer was good because it was 60%. At 30%, it's not even worth using when you consider that Supplication (100% crit and 50% extra healing on a honorable or experience kill) is not here either, on top of a higher Judgment cooldown so you'll be having access to it less often, though that's not as big a deal.

The old Flash of Light was a bit stronger than the current one, probably around 20% more, so that's already 20% stronger. Then you factor in Supplication, that's 50% extra healing and 100% crit, 360% more effective than the current Flash of Light by itself. With Selfless Healer, that's 600%, with the current Flash of Light with Selfless Healer at 130% (260% IF you crit, probably 1/4 chance of that happening or less). Not worth using in PVE at all as it stands.

EDIT: Totally wrong about old Selfless Healer being 100%, it was actually 60%. Still, Supplication made it what it was.

I'd like to point out that you should not compare values of previous expansions to what is about to come. You should notice how different HP pools and power scaling is going to be, so you cant make talents with same 'power'.