Havoc in Legion: 7.2.5 Guide

[Vanyali]

Yes its on demand and thats great. But its 4 seconds. And that 4 second window involves you jumping around the screen before needing to get back into proper position. Any loss of coordination or control. Any lag. Any slow button press. And mixup in priorities of what ability you should press in those 4 seconds (more realistically 2-3 seconds for the average player) and you've lost your window. Doing all that and doing boss mechanics correctly which most players struggle with already... Not going to happen

Except.. no, it's not.

Seriously, you need to try momentum before you make posts like this; you don't lose any melee uptime doing it properly, and all that involves is "turn your camera away from the boss". Unless you're talking FR lag, which requires a massive lagspike.. which would really screw you over for raiding whether or not you're playing momentum.

The prio list also isn't that difficult, nor different fro any other class on live currently.

If your complaint is that half the players won't do it optimally.. I guess? but that has nothing to do with the highest optimal talent selection; that has to do with players being unable to execute. Which is true right now for.. a lot of classes. The average person? Won't play feral correctly, or snapshot correctly, or do a lot of things correctly. Good players? Will, and will do very well with feral. That doesn't mean the optimal choice for feral is bad because players can't use it correctly, it just means that players can't use it correctly.

I think I'm getting a feel for your actual complaint now, which is that momentum is too complex for the average player, so won't be optimal, but.. that's now how sims work. Sims tell you what is best if you play right. They don't give you the ability to play it right, nor particularly care. The vast majority of wow players will pick nem, fe, or momentum and never play it optimally anyway, but they're also not much caring about stat weights, priority lists, or BiS because their focus isn't raiding and min-maxing.

[kaelleria]

If history is any guide looking back to DK and Monk release, I take all this pre general release "this is the best DPS talent based on sims" thing with a very very large grain of salt. Invariably learning from experience is we all get excited about the sims based on beta testing and then when the class gets released to the general player population and thousands of raid logs go up, we start to realize that the best players in the world are using builds completely different than predicted due to both sim calculation inaccuracies and actual raid encounters not matching up to simmed encounters.

So anyone getting too excited about this simmed "best" talents should really hold off until release of the class. I will go on record right here predicting that anyone who thinks that a momentum build that involves jumping all over the screen and somehow making full use of the buff while maintaining maximum uptime on the boss while negotiating raid mechanics is going to be very very disappointed to see their performance way way behind Nemesis and FE players who will stay in one place and only move for necessary fight mechanics.

Likewise I would hold off on any judgement on 110 talents until the raids are released.
TLDR: These pre release simmed best talent guides are almost always wrong based on DK and Monk experience. Choose the talents you enjoy the most and when raid logs come out, we are going to find out what the best performing talents are. They almost certainly will not be what is being predicted

But the thing is people are on Beta and using them on different fights. Your concern about sims being wrong aren't being validated by real world data.


Will they get changed via tuning once Legion comes out? Most definitely.


Will different fights require different talent set ups? Absolutely.

[Deleted]

Does anyone have the stats weights in a format I can import into Pawn? Pawn uses stat weights that at 0.xx rather than 8.xx etc and I don't know how to convert them.

[Vanyali]

Does anyone have the stats weights in a format I can import into Pawn? Pawn uses stat weights that at 0.xx rather than 8.xx etc and I don't know how to convert them.

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...t_weights.html

Open the sections for Talent; they have the Normalized stats as well in the first opening.

[Deleted]

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...t_weights.html

Open the sections for Talent; they have the Normalized stats as well in the first opening.

Thank you. I didn't know this. Will certainly help in the future.

[Vanyali]

Thank you. I didn't know this. Will certainly help in the future.

Not a problem! SimC is full of hidden things I keep finding xD

[neck deep]

Does anyone have the stats weights in a format I can import into Pawn? Pawn uses stat weights that at 0.xx rather than 8.xx etc and I don't know how to convert them.

pawn can use stat weights of either type. you just check the normalize values box underneath the scale with large numbers and it'll treat it as the fractional values.

[Demoniacal]

Thanks for putting this guide together, I've been searching for something similar the past few days.

[troqu]

Yes its on demand and thats great. But its 4 seconds. And that 4 second window involves you jumping around the screen before needing to get back into proper position. Any loss of coordination or control. Any lag. Any slow button press. And mixup in priorities of what ability you should press in those 4 seconds (more realistically 2-3 seconds for the average player) and you've lost your window. Doing all that and doing boss mechanics correctly which most players struggle with already... Not going to happen

As someone who loathes the Momentum playstyle I can say that Van is right. It's NOT hard to do and our priority isn't so complicated that really needs to be a concern for anyone who actually comes to look up a guide(aka wants to be better). Everyone else who sucks at playing Momentum isn't a concern anyway. Personally I just hate using my movement abilities frivolously so I'll be playing Nemesis when I DPS.

[Deleted]

pretty good guide for your average LFR player. bit misguided for more advanced play

Very tunnel vision on what you think is right with no variation allowed. there is still a month before live and the slightest changes could affect rotation so as a mythic raider will wait before finalising a spec even though on my DH i am topping charts consistently. it would be silly to think a guide on what is best is possible at this time.

but well done for putting the time in to write it all.

[Jbzzz]

Anyone know what is the best opener ?

[Whosbouncin]

Question regarding professions, most say they are irrelevant come raiding, pre raid(leveling up and gearing) is it beneficial to do for example leather working /skinning to get gear or would your efforts be better suited doing alchemy or inscription for use once raiding is primary?

[jayinjersey]

As someone who loathes the Momentum playstyle I can say that Van is right. It's NOT hard to do and our priority isn't so complicated that really needs to be a concern for anyone who actually comes to look up a guide(aka wants to be better). Everyone else who sucks at playing Momentum isn't a concern anyway. Personally I just hate using my movement abilities frivolously so I'll be playing Nemesis when I DPS.

Except you'll still be needing to Fel Rush on CD though...



The way the talents work now, Fel Mastery is really the ONLY choice...and that means Fel Rush Ave in Movement City with a population of you.

[BurningBurns]

Would just like to know what kind of number I should be doing. On beta, on training dummy, in 846 gear. Using your build, but subbing DB for Prepared, after 4 minutes I was pulling 211k. Does that sound about right? Or should I be doing more?

[jayinjersey]

Based on SimC default profile


1130111 is 240k
1130112 is 233k

[BurningBurns]

Based on SimC default profile


1130111 is 240k
1130112 is 233k

Do you know what gear that is simming in?

[jayinjersey]

here's the profile summary:

# Gear Summary
# gear_ilvl=840.00
# gear_agility=9632
# gear_stamina=17140
# gear_crit_rating=11452
# gear_haste_rating=4358
# gear_mastery_rating=526
# gear_versatility_rating=1193
# gear_armor=1957
# set_bonus=tier19p_leather_2pc=1

head=vigilant_bondbreaker_headdress,id=134446,bonus_id=1727/1492
neck=breathless_choker,id=137461,bonus_id=1727/1492,enchant_id=5439
shoulders=crashing_oceantide_mantle,id=137364,bonus_id=1727/1492
back=cloak_of_manaspun_silk,id=134410,bonus_id=1727/1492,enchant_id=5435
chest=vest_of_rupturing_diamonds,id=137336,bonus_id=1727/1492
wrists=adorned_guardians_bracers,id=133621,bonus_id=1727/1492
hands=guileful_intruder_handguards,id=137480,bonus_id=1727/1492
waist=ravens_veil_belt,id=139243,bonus_id=1727/1492
legs=ashen_satyr_leggings,id=134448,bonus_id=1727/1492
feet=tunnel_trudger_footguards,id=137397,bonus_id=1727/1492
finger1=band_of_callous_dominance,id=134528,bonus_id=1727/1492,enchant_id=5427
finger2=utgarde_royal_signet,id=133637,bonus_id=1727/1492,enchant_id=5427
trinket1=chaos_talisman,id=137459,bonus_id=1727/1492
trinket2=faulty_countermeasure,id=137539,bonus_id=1727/1492
main_hand=twinblades_of_the_deceiver,id=127829,bonus_id=719,ilevel=840
off_hand=twinblades_of_the_deceiver,id=127830,ilevel=840

[Vanyali]

Question regarding professions, most say they are irrelevant come raiding, pre raid(leveling up and gearing) is it beneficial to do for example leather working /skinning to get gear or would your efforts be better suited doing alchemy or inscription for use once raiding is primary?

It's really up to how lucky you feel.

If you're looking for post-raid relevance, inscription, JC, and Alchy are always solid.

If you're not wanting to depend on luck crafting with LW can provide a nice "promised" piece that can be upgraded.

[Deleted]

Demon Blades

Demon Blades gives players access to another playstyle, but you are pressing less buttons.

The goal is for it to be the second or third best talent in that tier. The team will do another tuning pass to make sure that this is the case.

Demonic Appetite will be the go-to for Demonic encounters, Indirectly may be a chance of it becoming mainstream. I like this guide don't get me wrong and with all this DH coming 9th of August it was great to get your flag planted. Tuning pass inc (Read up) don't be surprised if you may have to re-think your "perspectives"

[Vanyali]

Demon Blades

Demon Blades gives players access to another playstyle, but you are pressing less buttons.

The goal is for it to be the second or third best talent in that tier. The team will do another tuning pass to make sure that this is the case.

Demonic Appetite will be the go-to for Demonic encounters, Indirectly may be a chance of it becoming mainstream. I like this guide don't get me wrong and with all this DH coming 9th of August it was great to get your flag planted. Tuning pass inc (Read up) don't be surprised if you may have to re-think your "perspectives"

This guide will cover whatever is the current best.

As that is future content that's not implemented (and has already been said and failed to touch the actual reason that you take it) this guide will continue to suggest demon blades.

Demonic Appetite has the problem of not proc'ing 20% off demons right now. Could be hotfixed, could not be hotfixed. Even without that, Prepared will still be a better talent in that row, as it once again gives you the most essential thing about damage buffs: control.