1. #2021
    Legendary! TZucchini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherise View Post
    No, there is no if. Stop with the slippery slopes. Accidents happen and no system can ever be 100% foolproof.
    I'm not hypothesizing a slippery slope scenario. I'm discussing the very real outcomes of mass deportation. One of those outcomes is the deportation of American citizens. By the hundreds, if not thousands.

    Its like saying that if you support punishing criminals, you also support punishing innocents cause sometimes the justice system makes mistakes. Rather just refine the process to minimize such errors instead of tolerating law breakers.
    Well you're correct. We have a very refined process for the criminal justice system. And if we adopted that system for mass deportation, it would cost trillions upon trillions of dollars in legal fees alone.

    Each person alleged to be an alien would have their day in court. There would be a jury trial that would determine their illegal status. Then they'd have several avenues for appeals. More jury trials, etc.. And finally, after 10 or 15 years, after they've gone through the process, we could deport them. Now do that 11 million times. Is that what you'd like to implement?
    Eat yo vegetables

  2. #2022
    Same people said Rubio was closer and he got leveled against trump. I mean 500 random phone calls doesn't really prove that much but I guess some take it as a vote of confidence? Then again they could be right about this one?

  3. #2023
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    Source for that? According to one of Sweden's leading political experts on the US Trump has 42% in Florida vs Clinton's 45%. Which, while still being quite a gap, still isn't "badly behind" to me.
    I've got one better than what Skroe posted! As timing would have it... The chief spokesman of the Florida Republicans just resigned his chair sighting he can't support Donald Dump as the reason. It's lighting up on FB trending whatevers right now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Same people said Rubio was closer and he got leveled against trump. I mean 500 random phone calls doesn't really prove that much but I guess some take it as a vote of confidence? Then again they could be right about this one?
    See my above post

  4. #2024
    Quote Originally Posted by Watain View Post
    Trump explicitly noted that the deportations would be done in the most humane way.

    And what, deporting illegals is now a question of morals? It is a question of the law, and a country that does not follow its owns laws has no word on moral. Deporting illegals is simply the execution of law, as it should be.
    It absolutely is a question of morals. You're talking deporting people who do jobs that Americans by and large don't want. These people bus your tables, clean your house, work in the fields.

    You want to deport these people? Nobody is saying that if you're a violent criminal who is here illegally, that you should get a pass. Of course they should be deported. But the vast majority of these people are NOT violent criminals.

    And what happens to their children? Because they are US citizens. So now we're talking about breaking up families? What does that look like? What does it look like when the gestapo come to the door of your kid's nanny and drag her off through the threat of deadly force in front of her children? Because yes, most of these people will NOT want to go, so force, or the threat of it, will be necessary.

    It absolutely is a moral issue.

    And, as others have said, this would take HUGE swaths of money and resources. Considering that many crimes that are reported don't even get investigated because police departments don't have the resources to look into them, how do you expect us to actually round up all these people? How is it that our congress can't manage to increase funding for the Zika virus, a MUCH more serious problem than illegal immigrants, because they are deathly afraid of raising taxes, but will spend (waste) all their money on deporting millions of hard working people?

    And that isn't even getting into all the other points in terms of how this affects our national image, how this affects the economy (ours and Mexicos'), etc.

  5. #2025
    Well, there were a couple of times in US history that the government literally gathered everyone they thought illegal and chucked them across the border. And where the judicial system was...wasn't relevant. This was literally a case of telling judges "I see you've made your decision, now lets see you enforce it." Even worse, the public was in favor of what the gov did.

  6. #2026
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    First of all, you definitely failed to prove me wrong, considering it's impossible to be wrong about what I stated.

    Secondly, it's not just your petty insults or elitist (albeit seriously misguided elitism) attitude in every single post about politics. Forgetting considering views outside your bubble, you won't even acknowledge their existence. It shows a serious lack of maturity. So ill just leave it at that.

    And yeah I know, you don't care what I think because Im wrong and you're right and blah blah some witty remark about my ignorance
    You are wrong with what you stated. Unfortunately for you, but fortunately for those who appreciate factual information, your acceptance of reality isn't a requirement for it to exist or not.

    Now you've made yourself the victim of "elitism"...on a message board. You seem to have some preoccupation with being a victim. All I can tell you is to get over it.

    As for your assertion regarding my "elitist views" and "bubble", well, if emphasizing facts and information that actually exists is considered elitist, I'll take that hit. However, it doesn't even apply to this discussion because your stance isn't simply another view; it's fabricated and projected bullshit. It has zero basis in fact. You don't get to attribute statements to people because you wish it was so. Its really just that simple.

  7. #2027
    Warchief Bollocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    And laws tend to change when they are questionable. There is also the severity of the law as well, which warrants different levels of repercussions. You don't send people who go over the speed limit to prison, that would be silly.

    Beyond what can be endlessly argued over morality, there is also the question of costs. Too many downsides and too much effort to pull off a deportation of an 11 million integraded population. Thinking this move will pass easily with our calculating government is wishful at best.
    It doesn't make sense economically either
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  8. #2028
    Quote Originally Posted by Bushtuckrman View Post
    No but it lets the rest of the world laugh at America a little bit more
    /image
    That's actually how I do basic math in my head. What's 12 * 15? Ok I have a 120 + 12*5. Ok, I have a 120 + 50 + 5*2. Ok, I have 180.

    I do similar things with more advanced math, but that's more about dropping constants to simplify then remembering how to bring them back.

    It wasn't taught to me. Just how my mind works.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  9. #2029
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I think of it like this. A room full of Republicans grilled Hillary during the Benghazi hearings earlier in the year, for about 8 hours straight, trying to get her to crack or make a mistake. They didn't even come close. They had months to prepare and blew it. Not many people could have gotten through those hearings as unscathed as her. In fact, she came out looking rather good.

    Two hours with Donald Trump? George Will put it best yesterday: anyone who dislikes Hillary because of Benghazi, because of emails, because of "dishonesty" already has factored that in by now. There isn't some new crop on the fence waiting for the one Trump line that pushes them into the Anti-Hillary Camp. At this point, more of the usual anti-Hillary notes doesn't get Trump anything.

    By Contrast Donald Trump has actually managed to find new was to alienate people and make enemies in just the last two weeks. In just the last few days!

    All Hillary has to do is lay traps for Donald Trump to walk into, because he is not a smart man and thinks with his balls and not his brains. All she has to do is keep getting Donald Trump to be Donald Trump. The more he is that person, the more unlikable he is and the more people swing against it.

    And remember, Trump doesn't become President without winning Florida. He can win Ohio and Pennsylvania (he'll win neither), and if he doesn't win Florida, where he is badly behind, he'll lose.

    So expect Hillary to do everything and anything to get Trump to disparage Latinos, particularly Cubans. She will try and maneuver him into saying terrible things about the Sunshine state. It's a very low bar for victory.
    And to expand on tgis, Trump is constantly alienating his own party that nominated him. Although he was nominated as a republican, many are witholding and even denying hum support. Some even voting Hillary.

    There are the people who are not conservatives. They are the Trump voters. They are anti PC, anti feminist, anti liberal, anti minority, and a lot of them openly bigot or racist. They don't stand FOR anthing like a true conservatives who has values. Their entire belief system is based on being AGAINST things. Those are the ones who are cheering on Trump insulting everyone as a "platform".

    Meanwhile conservatives who stand for conservative values are leaving. Trump's insults are hemorrhaging him support of his own party. As his numbers continue to bottom out, the Trump legion is releasing "fixed" polls that account for "liberal bias" because they believe that Trump's insults should be gaining him support, not bleeding it like a slaughtered cow. They can give themselves fake hope all they want. Republican senators and congressmen are distancing themselves from Trump in their own campaigns because Trump's shenanigans are affecting down ticket elections big time.

    At this point republicans are playing damage control so that they can attempt to prevent democrat majorities in both the house and senate. Which is a very real possibility if Trump keeps behaving the way he is.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
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  10. #2030
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC17 View Post
    You are wrong with what you stated. Unfortunately for you, but fortunately for those who appreciate factual information, your acceptance of reality isn't a requirement for it to exist or not.

    Now you've made yourself the victim of "elitism"...on a message board. You seem to have some preoccupation with being a victim. All I can tell you is to get over it.

    As for your assertion regarding my "elitist views" and "bubble", well, if emphasizing facts and information that actually exists is considered elitist, I'll take that hit. However, it doesn't even apply to this discussion because your stance isn't simply another view; it's fabricated and projected bullshit. It has zero basis in fact. You don't get to attribute statements to people because you wish it was so. Its really just that simple.
    Am i the only one who sees the Hypocracy in him when he acuses others of "elitism" right after he states "it's impossible to be wrong with what i stated"?

    But then again, the guy has proven to be politically ignorant for the past few weeks... Particularly on the impact Dump's comments had on his campaign when he criticized the Hold Star fanily. Christ... Stomped was so ignorant he suggested they just "shrugged off" the insults!

    You can't reason with an elitist who is burued deep in their own ignorance. It's more worth your time debating actual informed people than those who make crap up and believe, in their own words, it's impossible for them to be wrong.

  11. #2031
    Warchief Bollocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushtuckrman View Post
    No but it lets the rest of the world laugh at America a little bit more

    I don't get this. If the idea is to use estimates why not round up to 400 and 300 respectively

  12. #2032
    Quote Originally Posted by Bollocks View Post
    I don't get this. If the idea is to use estimates why not round up to 400 and 300 respectively
    I've seen this sort of forced equation in my little brother's math book from the prior year. I was genuinely baffled.

    It is essentially forcing you to go contrary to typically utilized methods. You're right, why the fuck would you not just used the standard means of estimation? Not to mention 500 = 645 does not, they're not remotely close.

    American logic at its finest.
    Last edited by Rudol Von Stroheim; 2016-08-09 at 02:32 PM.

  13. #2033
    I am Murloc! Pangean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Now you're ignoring what you said because it was wrong and justifying it by other means, sorry just be honest with me and yourself for once.
    Lol. You claimed to speak for others. It's even in the post you replied to. If you don't intend to, then stop writing that you do.
    What are we gonna do now? Taking off his turban, they said, is this man a Jew?
    'Cause they're working for the clampdown
    They put up a poster saying we earn more than you!
    When we're working for the clampdown
    We will teach our twisted speech To the young believers
    We will train our blue-eyed men To be young believers

  14. #2034
    Quote Originally Posted by Pangean View Post
    Lol. You claimed to speak for others. It's even in the post you replied to. If you don't intend to, then stop writing that you do.
    Where did I say I speak for others?

  15. #2035
    I am Murloc! Pangean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Where did I say I speak for others?
    "And just like the Olympics, most people don't care."
    What are we gonna do now? Taking off his turban, they said, is this man a Jew?
    'Cause they're working for the clampdown
    They put up a poster saying we earn more than you!
    When we're working for the clampdown
    We will teach our twisted speech To the young believers
    We will train our blue-eyed men To be young believers

  16. #2036
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYC17 View Post
    You are wrong with what you stated. Unfortunately for you, but fortunately for those who appreciate factual information, your acceptance of reality isn't a requirement for it to exist or not.

    Now you've made yourself the victim of "elitism"...on a message board. You seem to have some preoccupation with being a victim. All I can tell you is to get over it.

    As for your assertion regarding my "elitist views" and "bubble", well, if emphasizing facts and information that actually exists is considered elitist, I'll take that hit. However, it doesn't even apply to this discussion because your stance isn't simply another view; it's fabricated and projected bullshit. It has zero basis in fact. You don't get to attribute statements to people because you wish it was so. Its really just that simple.
    Calling something a fact doesn't make it so. You really need to look up the difference between fact and opinion and I think then maybe you'll understand how you have no basis for calling me right or wrong. Until then this argument is literally between me and a brick wall.

  17. #2037
    Quote Originally Posted by Pangean View Post
    "And just like the Olympics, most people don't care."
    Yes, using an expressive opinion is exactly the same as saying I speak for many people.

  18. #2038
    I am Murloc! Pangean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Yes, using an expressive opinion is exactly the same as saying I speak for many people.
    LOL. You can dance if you want to...
    What are we gonna do now? Taking off his turban, they said, is this man a Jew?
    'Cause they're working for the clampdown
    They put up a poster saying we earn more than you!
    When we're working for the clampdown
    We will teach our twisted speech To the young believers
    We will train our blue-eyed men To be young believers

  19. #2039
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Calling something a fact doesn't make it so. You really need to look up the difference between fact and opinion and I think then maybe you'll understand how you have no basis for calling me right or wrong. Until then this argument is literally between me and a brick wall.
    It is factual that Kasich didn't say, nor even imply, what you stated. It is your opinion that he did, and to support that opinion you have to ignore what was actually stated.

    The brick wall you are arguing with is factual information. It is immovable and unforgiving. It is something you can't mentally gymnastasize your way around.

    Tough luck.

  20. #2040
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYC17 View Post
    It is factual that Kasich didn't say, nor even imply, what you stated. It is your opinion that he did, and to support that opinion you have to ignore what was actually stated.

    The brick wall you are arguing with is factual information. It is immovable and unforgiving. It is something you can't mentally gymnastasize your way around.

    Tough luck.
    This right there proves you have no idea what a fact actually is. Implication is not something factual, it's inferred through reasoning. You can think I imply something from a sentence while someone else thinks I imply something else. Neither can be right or wrong since it's an opinion.

    This. is. not. hard.

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