1. #1301
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracos854 View Post
    I would say unless something major happen I do not see either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton lasting more than 4 years, Paul Ryan and several more reasonable conservatives would have no problem beating Clinton. On debt republicans tend to increase debt more with wars and increasing the military, also Donald Trump economic plan will more than double the debt according to several studies. Immigration I think that is all image, Obama has done more evictions than any other president and illegal immigration is the lowest it's ever been.

    Donald Trump's plan to evict all illegal immigrants is simply not feasible logistically, the best path would be a revision to our broken immigration system and checks and balances for illegals which will require bipartisan agreements. There is no fear of republicans being in power but Donald Trump is not a conservative or republican he is a different beast and if he wasn't running against Clinton democrats would win by a landslide.

    Of course I am assuming you care about policy, I find that many people who vote for Trump either always vote republican or just want the country to burn. Those who argue that they vote for him due to policy usually are not being genuine since his policies are rather horrible which is why he often stays away from the subject and rather stick to one liners and controversies.
    Right, they are trying to beat clinton for 30 years now.

    How is that working out

  2. #1302
    Gary Johnson 2016

  3. #1303
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    Again, if I wanted to serve my PERSONAL ends - I'd vote Democrat, down the line. This election I wouldn't have voted Bernie if he get into the national election; again, a very obvious choice for me if I wanted help managing my own issues considering his proposed policy plans.
    But, you are voting Trump because he will slow down the country? Your example is that you want the country to sink with you, not that it would be better for either of you. You are just thinking that it will get better after the slowing, for no apparent reason.

    Instead, I'm voting for people that don't put me first and are sometimes, in the immediate sense, a negative influence on my current situation. Instead I considered the long-term effects of our conflicts and "nation building" initiatives, both on a financial and security level.
    But, Trump not only states on his site that he will bolster troops near China, claims to support nuclear proliferation and to bomb Middle East and give their oil, to exon. You are not doing what you claim.
    Entropy won't yield to you.
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  4. #1304
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    Because I want to buy time. Chances are, if Hillary gets in, it's 8 more years. I don't know if we can continue mounting the debt as we are, further opening up our trade policies as we have been, and bringing in more refugees/illegals into this country.
    Deficit has been going down under Democrat presidents and up under Republican presidents.

    If you want to lower the deficit, you have to raise some taxes and/or (mostly and) cut a bit of spending. Since neither Democrats NOR Republicans want to cut many of their programs, we're stuck with raising taxes, which Republicans don't like. Government programs aren't just some black hole for money either. Money spent by the government ends up in the hands of the private sector. The money circulates.

    Trump has surrounded himself with pro-TPP people, meanwhile Clinton has a mixed bag of both for and against. Trump has also delegated basically running the entire country onto his VP pick too, who is very pro TPP.

    A small schadenfreude part of me wants to see Trump stop sinking his campaign, so that if he were elected, all of the people who projected their image of an ideal leader can watch that delusion shatter into a million pieces, only to continue defending him of course. Much like the Bush years. "If you question glorious leader Bush, you are a traitor!"
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  5. #1305
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    But, you are voting Trump because he will slow down the country? Your example is that you want the country to sink with you, not that it would be better for either of you. You are just thinking that it will get better after the slowing, for no apparent reason.



    But, Trump not only states on his site that he will bolster troops near China, claims to support nuclear proliferation and to bomb Middle East and give their oil, to exon. You are not doing what you claim.
    Primary concern this election isn't stopping conflict abroad.

    It's to limit power acquisition. There's only one party I see potentially gaining much from this. It doesn't mean I don't care about other issues, it's just this one is the biggest considering my hopes for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    Deficit has been going down under Democrat presidents and up under Republican presidents.

    If you want to lower the deficit, you have to raise some taxes and/or (mostly and) cut a bit of spending. Since neither Democrats NOR Republicans want to cut many of their programs, we're stuck with raising taxes, which Republicans don't like. Government programs aren't just some black hole for money either. Money spent by the government ends up in the hands of the private sector. The money circulates.

    Trump has surrounded himself with pro-TPP people, meanwhile Clinton has a mixed bag of both for and against. Trump has also delegated basically running the entire country onto his VP pick too, who is very pro TPP.

    A small schadenfreude part of me wants to see Trump stop sinking his campaign, so that if he were elected, all of the people who projected their image of an ideal leader can watch that delusion shatter into a million pieces, only to continue defending him of course. Much like the Bush years. "If you question glorious leader Bush, you are a traitor!"
    I hope you aren't assuming I see him as an "ideal leader".

  6. #1306
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    Donald Trump will also be beholden to the party and if he is not, it'll be civil war - which can be advantageous as well. I do not see a Trump presidency being a threat much like I don't see it being good either. I have very mixed feelings concerning him and the future after. Hillary though, I know where I stand. I know where the DNC as a whole stands. This could end up being exceptionally destructive in the long run.

    My main focus though, is limiting power acquisition and I think that's best done with the Republicans in office. They're barely keeping themselves together as is.

    I know it's shitty but I don't really ever find politics terribly pleasing.
    You have to face reality, there is civil war now as we speak people assumed the same thing that he would be beholden to the party once he became the nominee that has not happened. Donald Trump will not change who he is when he becomes president. This election we can all agree that we are facing really horrible choices but Donald Trump is a loose cannon he always has been and the damage he will do to the country is simply not worth the risk.

  7. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I do love your signature...
    It's my first ever btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  8. #1308
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracos854 View Post
    You have to face reality, there is civil war now as we speak people assumed the same thing that he would be beholden to the party once he became the nominee that has not happened. Donald Trump will not change who he is when he becomes president. This election we can all agree that we are facing really horrible choices but Donald Trump is a loose cannon he always has been and the damage he will do to the country is simply not worth the risk.
    He can be stifled and kept low at every corner by a coordinated effort from the congress and senate. I honestly, am not afraid of him. He's also surrounding himself with a lot of people that tend to work closely with the Republicans versus against, which will only serve to chain him further. Sure, he might be a barking dog but he'll be a dog on a leash among a pack that is on the verge of collapse and has a most uncertain future. Again, for someone with 3rd party aspirations, that's not such a bad deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    It's my first ever btw.
    Don't know why people get a kick out of what I said. That's my issue with most discussion of politics. I realize that politics really is much more pragmatic and difficult to work with than simply, "Well if you don't believe in this you must hate X and Y!" etc... I don't think I am better than the next person for my stances. I just hope that I am actually considering all of my angles and trying to make the best decision possible which goes beyond moral posturing.

    Hence how I can vote for Trump even though his tone and rhetoric isn't ideal to me. I like his ability to speak up and not be stifled but it doesn't mean I necessarily like the words that actually come fumbling out of his mouth or his incessant need to continuously do so at all times. I also do not like his vague policy stances among other issues.

    It's just, Hillary and the DNC is the enemy I know versus one that looks like its about to implode upon itself anyway.

  9. #1309
    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaIsForLovers View Post
    He chose to stay out of one to make a point. That point raised money for vets, was the lowest rated debate in this cycle for the gop and gained him points in polls. He attended every debate after that.

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    Again how does that = "I'm not doing them"?
    You mean the rally that he claimed he raised $6 million for vets and then didn't give it out for over 5 months? That he didn't give it out until reporters started digging? Yeah. You aren't helping your argument here. And that it was for a fake charity? https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2015/...terans-issues/

  10. #1310
    Scarab Lord Naxere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Obama came out yesterday and said, "I am president and I am for TPP." Hillary on the other hand said at the DNC that Bernie had changed her mind on the TPP and was against 'deals that would enrichen the 1% at the expense of the rest of the middle class' which was directed at the TPP. Wether she was being honest or just saying what she had to to get bernie votes, I can't tell you.
    I think we all know which answer it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by nôrps View Post
    I just think you retards are starting to get ridiculous with your childish language.

  11. #1311
    It's because the sentence, "I don't need to play the role of holier than thou," is directly proceeded by, "I'm above that," a phrase that is holier than thou.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  12. #1312
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    It's because the sentence, "I don't need to play the role of holier than thou," is directly proceeded by, "I'm above that," a phrase that is holier than thou.
    I think you read a bit too much into the "above that".

    I'll give it to you though. Shitty word choices.

  13. #1313
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    He can be stifled and kept low at every corner by a coordinated effort from the congress and senate. I honestly, am not afraid of him. He's also surrounding himself with a lot of people that tend to work closely with the Republicans versus against, which will only serve to chain him further. Sure, he might be a barking dog but he'll be a dog on a leash among a pack that is on the verge of collapse and has a most uncertain future. Again, for someone with 3rd party aspirations, that's not such a bad deal.
    You are right and he has surrounded himself with those people and he also has gone right ahead dismissed, ridiculed and ignored them. I think you either ignoring or not acknowledging the amount of power the president has not to mention what he represents and stands for on the international stage. This is not Dubya he has demonstrated that over and over again, he is in control no one else.

  14. #1314
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    I think you read a bit too much into the "above that".

    I'll give it to you though. Shitty word choices.
    I mean it's impossible to take anyone seriously when they can't even parse what they themselves are saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  15. #1315
    Scarab Lord Naxere's Avatar
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    Trump for President. Embrace the chaos.
    Quote Originally Posted by nôrps View Post
    I just think you retards are starting to get ridiculous with your childish language.

  16. #1316
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    I mean it's impossible to take anyone seriously when they can't even parse what they themselves are saying.
    Yeah well, when you're arguing for pages on end it's pretty easy to say silly things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracos854 View Post
    You are right and he has surrounded himself with those people and he also has gone right ahead dismissed, ridiculed and ignored them. I think you either ignoring or not acknowledging the amount of power the president has not to mention what he represents and stands for on the international stage. This is not Dubya he has demonstrated that over and over again, he is in control no one else.
    The president only has about as much power as everyone else within the government is willing to afford him.

    ...Hence why I don't tend to trust anyone these days but in Trump's case, he is not exactly liked nor catered to by even his own. So he won't be getting an easy pass unlike many of our past presidents.

  17. #1317
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    Yeah well, when you're arguing for pages on end it's pretty easy to say silly things.
    I mean ya, practice makes perfect and all, I already said bravo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  18. #1318
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    I mean ya, practice makes perfect and all, I already said bravo.
    Thank you. I hope to give you more gems in the near future. I live to become a meme, naturally.

  19. #1319
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    He can be stifled and kept low at every corner by a coordinated effort from the congress and senate. I honestly, am not afraid of him. He's also surrounding himself with a lot of people that tend to work closely with the Republicans versus against, which will only serve to chain him further. Sure, he might be a barking dog but he'll be a dog on a leash among a pack that is on the verge of collapse and has a most uncertain future. Again, for someone with 3rd party aspirations, that's not such a bad deal.

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    Don't know why people get a kick out of what I said. That's my issue with most discussion of politics. I realize that politics really is much more pragmatic and difficult to work with than simply, "Well if you don't believe in this you must hate X and Y!" etc... I don't think I am better than the next person for my stances. I just hope that I am actually considering all of my angles and trying to make the best decision possible which goes beyond moral posturing.

    Hence how I can vote for Trump even though his tone and rhetoric isn't ideal to me. I like his ability to speak up and not be stifled but it doesn't mean I necessarily like the words that actually come fumbling out of his mouth or his incessant need to continuously do so at all times. I also do not like his vague policy stances among other issues.

    It's just, Hillary and the DNC is the enemy I know versus one that looks like its about to implode upon itself anyway.
    Donald Dump is the one arguing for the use of Nuclear Weapons, extreme torture methods and attacking families of enemies - while threatening to change laws to sue anybody who disagrees or says bad/negative things about him (he counts anything negative as "slander"), and yet you believe the Dems are more dangerous!?

  20. #1320
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Donald Dump is the one arguing for the use of Nuclear Weapons, extreme torture methods and attacking families of enemies - while threatening to change laws to sue anybody who disagrees or says bad/negative things about him (he counts anything negative as "slander"), and yet you believe the Dems are more dangerous!?
    It's become very apparent that he's not posting based on ideals or any sort of rational process, and only because he's displeased that an overall moderate Democratic voter base didn't favor Sanders. Don't really see the point of continuing any discussions with him given that he's at that point.

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