Republican Election 2016 - Donald Trump Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[DeadmanWalking]

People would say voting third party is selfish. Everyone has their own ideas of how you should vote and shouldn't. Cruz is the only one that really said it well in his speech at the RNC - you know, that guy everyone just loathed. He said to vote your conscience and that's the only way you really can vote and feel good about it at the end of the day.

As for Trump's motives and financials, I personally cannot say. It's hard though to beat on that drum while the Democrat's nominated candidate is backed by the biggest corporations within this country and they far outweigh Trump.

Yeah but Trump is the one who baited Romney into releasing his and now in typical hypocrisy won't do it himself. The point of Taxes is to prove that foreign powers don't have their fingers in your piggy bank, which we already know that Trump sold some property to a member of Putin's inner circle. There is nothing illegal about corporations giving money to candidates so long as they stay within the rule of law, while it is morally reprehensible it is not illegal. People like Hillary jump sheer cliffs to make sure it all stays legal.
Getting rid of Citizens United would be a great start and should never of existed in the first place. But finding out your potential leader has Foreign governments influencing him with profits is entirely illegal and can cost you an election AND your freedom.

- - - Updated - - -

The constant race-baiting shit is getting old though. No one is privileged more or less by their skin tone. The truly limiting factors are things like income(or inherited wealth) and culture. This narrative of systematic racial discrimination has, unfortunately, not only made decent people resentful but has helped to empower some of the more shitty elements within our society - like the actual racists.

My grandfather always said while taking me on fishing trips that, "A fish wouldn't get caught if it kept it's mouth shut." Race baiting? Don't bite. Good advice for Trump as well, but he won't listen.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Yeah but Trump is the one who baited Romney into releasing his and now in typical hypocrisy won't do it himself. The point of Taxes is to prove that foreign powers don't have their fingers in your piggy bank, which we already know that Trump sold some property to a member of Putin's inner circle. There is nothing illegal about corporations giving money to candidates so long as they stay within the rule of law, while it is morally reprehensible it is not illegal. People like Hillary jump sheer cliffs to make sure it all stays legal.
Getting rid of Citizens United would be a great start and should never of existed in the first place. But finding out your potential leader has Foreign governments influencing him with profits is entirely illegal and can cost you an election AND your freedom.

- - - Updated - - -



My grandfather always said while taking me on fishing trips that, "A fish wouldn't get caught if it kept it's mouth shut." Race baiting? Don't bite. Good advice for Trump as well, but he won't listen.

Fair enough distinction I suppose.

As for the "baiting". All I've heard and read lately is how whites should give reparations, land, and essentially shut the fuck up. Often, ironically, by people who see their own race as somehow culturally superior. I am baffled by this mentality. So it's not okay for whites to take land, take wealth, quell opposition, and see their race as the superior one; yet another can do it because reasons? I was raised to believe that shitty ideals are shitty ideals, doesn't matter who espouses them and for what motivations.

Maybe I've been exposed too much to what is likely a hilariously meaningless minority(I hope that's the case) but I could definitely see tensions rising within people who otherwise are typically pleasant individuals being exposed similarly to this sort of reverse racism. Then they see that, extrapolate it to the greater political arena, and start connecting dots that perhaps aren't there to begin with. Like with BLM and by greater extension, the DNC. Not only that but there is people out there actively feeding into this narrative which only fosters more anger.

Obama coming out in support of X or Y being shot before even all the facts are revealed if any. That doesn't help things.

So there seems to be a lot of tumultuous shit churning up in the mix that appears intent on creating racial divide, something as a child and even through all of my teenage years I wouldn't have considered as reality nor possible. Hell, one could argue I was nearly blind to color until within the last decade. Had black boyfriends and everything and didn't think much of it. Now, you can't escape the subject of race.

[ringpriest]

Apologies if this was already mentioned upthread and I missed it, but it appears that Trump and his supporters are now openly embracing their hatred for America, functional public government, history, and the rule of law - protestors who silently held up pocket copies of The Constitution of the United States were booed by crowd before being ejected by Trump's security, the crowd cheered once the Constitution-wielders had been removed.

"Constitution-Wielding Protesters Ejected From Trump Rally"

"Protesters Wield Pocket Constitutions At Trump Rally"

Youtube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...h2nVk4Os#t=142

I'm under no illusions that America, past or present, has been perfect; and I'm not a big fan of the United States "civil religion"; there is absolutely change needed, and quickly. But this - Trump and his followers - is not it; Trump (and everything he stands for) needs to be decisively rejected at the polls this fall by the American people, or one of the greatest nations in the history of the world is going to find itself on a swift train to ruin.

[Felya]

People would say voting third party is selfish. Everyone has their own ideas of how you should vote and shouldn't. Cruz is the only one that really said it well in his speech at the RNC - you know, that guy everyone just loathed. He said to vote your conscience and that's the only way you really can vote and feel good about it at the end of the day.

It depends why they are voting third party, to be selfish. I didn't say voting for Trump is selfish, I said voting for the worst candidate is selfish. Voting for third party, because you think it will get the worst candidate elected, is selfish. As much as you are sticking a needle in the eye of the RNC by voting Trump in primaries, you are doing the same to the country in general elections.

Yes, Cruz, just like everyone else, has positives and negatives about them. For me his positives are his principles, not what they are, but his adherence to them. His negatives are the lengths he is willing to go, to push his principles. Lying and misconstruing facts, is the line that turns principled from a positive, to a negative. The problem with Trump, his positive exists in self promotion, which is not something you want in a president.

As for Trump's motives and financials, I personally cannot say. It's hard though to beat on that drum while the Democrat's nominated candidate is backed by the biggest corporations within this country and they far outweigh Trump.

Trump is a corporation... You cannot say the motives of a corporation, but can about motives of a candidate who gets money from them? Trump is that corporation. Trump is the one who complained his million to McCain didn't win him the presidancy.

- - - Updated - - -

Apologies if this was already mentioned upthread and I missed it, but it appears that Trump and his supporters are now openly embracing their hatred for America, functional public government, history, and the rule of law - protestors who silently held up pocket copies of The Constitution of the United States were booed by crowd before being ejected by Trump's security, the crowd cheered once the Constitution-wielders had been removed.

"Constitution-Wielding Protesters Ejected From Trump Rally"

"Protesters Wield Pocket Constitutions At Trump Rally"

Youtube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...h2nVk4Os#t=142

I'm under no illusions that America, past or present, has been perfect; and I'm not a big fan of the United States "civil religion"; there is absolutely change needed, and quickly. But this - Trump and his followers - is not it; Trump (and everything he stands for) needs to be decisively rejected at the polls this fall by the American people, or one of the greatest nations in the history of the world is going to find itself on a swift train to ruin.

I would love some statistics on how many people are voting for Trump because he is the worst candidate. The 'vote for Trump because we want America to burn' crowd needs to be exposed.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

It depends why they are voting third party, to be selfish. I didn't say voting for Trump is selfish, I said voting for the worst candidate is selfish. Voting for third party, because you think it will get the worst candidate elected, is selfish. As much as you are sticking a needle in the eye of the RNC by voting Trump in primaries, you are doing the same to the country in general elections.

Yes, Cruz, just like everyone else, has positives and negatives about them. For me his positives are his principles, not what they are, but his adherence to them. His negatives are the lengths he is willing to go, to push his principles. Lying and misconstruing facts, is the line that turns principled from a positive, to a negative. The problem with Trump, his positive exists in self promotion, which is not something you want in a president.



Trump is a corporation... You cannot say the motives of a corporation, but can about motives of a candidate who gets money from them? Trump is that corporation. Trump is the one who complained his million to McCain didn't win him the presidancy.

I can't say the motive of either, I'm merely pointing out that it's a bit silly to knock on Trump for being a corporation unto himself while the opposition is many more powerful corporations conglomerating onto one host. What you should really be picking apart is his words and actions in this instance, as attacking his source of wealth isn't going to work considering.

[DeadmanWalking]

Fair enough distinction I suppose.

As for the "baiting". All I've heard and read lately is how whites should give reparations, land, and essentially shut the fuck up. Often, ironically, by people who see their own race as somehow culturally superior. I am baffled by this mentality. So it's not okay for whites to take land, take wealth, quell opposition, and see their race as the superior one; yet another can do it because reasons? I was raised to believe that shitty ideals are shitty ideals, doesn't matter who espouses them and for what motivations.

Maybe I've been exposed too much to what is likely a hilariously meaningless minority(I hope that's the case) but I could definitely see tensions rising within people who otherwise are typically pleasant individuals being exposed similarly to this sort of reverse racism. Then they see that, extrapolate it to the greater political arena, and start connecting dots that perhaps aren't there to begin with. Like with BLM and by greater extension, the DNC. Not only that but there is people out there actively feeding into this narrative which only fosters more anger.

Obama coming out in support of X or Y being shot before even all the facts are revealed if any. That doesn't help things.

So there seems to be a lot of tumultuous shit churning up in the mix that appears intent on creating racial divide, something as a child and even through all of my teenage years I wouldn't have considered as reality nor possible. Hell, one could argue I was nearly blind to color until within the last decade. Had black boyfriends and everything and didn't think much of it. Now, you can't escape the subject of race.

Like I said, people can bait you all they want but if you don't bite then you can't be eaten. Let them talk about reperations, they are allowed to talk. Doesn't mean they are going to get what they want and you yourself have no say in it either way so fighting back against their comments only opens you up to the perception that you might be a racist, "If you are not with us you are against us." Nod your head, say, "That's interesting." and then go hang out with people you would rather talk to. You don't have to fight them, you don't have to hang out with them. You don't have to do jack. Acknowledge their right to free speech and then get on with your life, you need not fight every battle and you need not agree or disagree with everything everyone says. If you don't allow it to get under your skin it can't affect you.

[ringpriest]

So there seems to be a lot of tumultuous shit churning up in the mix that appears intent on creating racial divide, something as a child and even through all of my teenage years I wouldn't have considered as reality nor possible. Hell, one could argue I was nearly blind to color until within the last decade. Had black boyfriends and everything and didn't think much of it. Now, you can't escape the subject of race.

Conflict generates ratings, so mass media generates conflict instead of actually doing journalism (the heart of which is getting people to understand, both intellectually and viscerally, what's being reported on) - the entire mass media machine in the US is at least as big a disgrace as Trump (whose rise they have aided and abetted, from the left-wing to the right-wing, with precious few exceptions). After watching US "news" (faux or otherwise) this summer, I'm truly at the point where I think almost anything, even state-controlled media, would be better (not good mind you, but damned near anything is better than having media who do the zeitgeist equivalent of splashing petrol all over the theater and then handing out matches to everyone).

[Felya]

I can't say the motive of either, I'm merely pointing out that it's a bit silly to knock on Trump for being a corporation unto himself while the opposition is many more powerful corporations conglomerating onto one host. What you should really be picking apart is his words and actions in this instance, as attacking his source of wealth isn't going to work considering.

It's not, when the argument becomes 'put a corporation in charge, because we are sick of having them pay politicians to do it'. It misses the point of why money influencing government is wrong. It's not the fact that someone is being bribed, but what the bribe is intended to do. By handing the presidancy over to a corporation, the only thing you fix is the amount that corporation needs to spend on lobbying. As far as the influence, you are handing over the presidancy directly... There is nothing more that a corporation can do to influence government, than be president.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Like I said, people can bait you all they want but if you don't bite then you can't be eaten. Let them talk about reperations, they are allowed to talk. Doesn't mean they are going to get what they want and you yourself have no say in it either way so fighting back against their comments only opens you up to the perception that you might be a racist, "If you are not with us you are against us." Nod your head, say, "That's interesting." and then go hang out with people you would rather talk to. You don't have to fight them, you don't have to hang out with them. You don't have to do jack. Acknowledge their right to free speech and then get on with your life, you need not fight every battle and you need not agree or disagree with everything everyone says. If you don't allow it to get under your skin it can't affect you.

Concerned this insanity might end up mainstream, grew a lot larger than I would've suspected.

That being said, I agree with you, somewhat. I'm not entirely confident in leaving unabashed racists unchecked but I do understand the need for care and tact. With this notion in mind, Trump is definitely not the man of the hour.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not, when the argument becomes 'put a corporation in charge, because we are sick of having them pay politicians to do it'. It misses the point of why money influencing government is wrong. It's not the fact that someone is being bribed, but what the bribe is intended to do. By handing the presidancy over to a corporation, the only thing you fix is the amount that corporation needs to spend on lobbying. As far as the influence, you are handing over the presidancy directly... There is nothing more that a corporation can do to influence government, than be president.

Oh there is. POTUS is not an imperial status. They're actually quite limited should the congress, senate, and court choose them to be. Don't get me wrong. I see your concern and it is valid. Forget the current election. Forget the immediate. Consider what might happen in the future if what could be construed as special interests simply and directly install their own people, or themselves outright, into positions of power throughout our governance. Though one must argue at the end of the day, what's really the difference with how things are now? Only... in one instance you can see the face of the one directly putting the screws to you. The other, you can't, it's a farce.

Neither are really a greater evil nor lesser evil. Both are quite plainly corrupting and problematic. I still don't think it's an area worth getting into a conflict about if you're a Hillary supporter. Better to again, attack him on other facets and there are plenty to do so with.

[ringpriest]

It depends why they are voting third party, to be selfish. I didn't say voting for Trump is selfish, I said voting for the worst candidate is selfish. Voting for third party, because you think it will get the worst candidate elected, is selfish. As much as you are sticking a needle in the eye of the RNC by voting Trump in primaries, you are doing the same to the country in general elections.

I think that people who vote third party solely to ease their own conscience are also being selfish - I'm looking at the Green Party in particular; it's one thing to vote for the third party because you honestly believe they have a shot at winning, or even gaining influence. But voting third party just so you can feel good about your vote is really nothing more than bailing on a tough decision; the Greens in particular are bad on this front - I like a lot (but by no means all) of the Green Party platform, but building an effective political party is work, work that (in most most states) the Greens have no ability or desire for.

Trump is a corporation... You cannot say the motives of a corporation, but can about motives of a candidate who gets money from them? Trump is that corporation. Trump is the one who complained his million to McCain didn't win him the presidancy.

Trump is also heavily indebted, to the tunes of hundreds of millions - I can understand those who don't like how much money Clinton has accepted from corporations (and other nations); Trump is in debt, for similar (if not larger) amounts to similar groups (though most huge US banks won't deal with him anymore... itself a warning sign). Why is Trump's debt acceptable to his supporters? (At least Clinton can give her donors the middle finger, take the money they've already given her, and walk if she chooses - Trump is stuck with his debt, and no one should pretend it won't influence his decision-making.)

[Spectral]

Jeffery Lord is also a raging unaware white supremecist. He is constantly saying things on CNN that would make any decent white person cringe, like, "I am tired of being told that white people are the cause of all the problems from minorities, they are obviously ignoring that white people have made the greatest contributions in western history!"

Could you be specific about your objection to this quote?

and Lord says things like "Trump may have said something racist but it was designed to draw out the real racists, the left wing anti-racists." which is some spine snapping backflips that defy the laws of physics to continue to support madness.

Now this I do object to. The enthusiasm for exposing the "real racists" is a pants-on-head retarded strategy.

[Edge-]

This was an interesting read. She is not a fan of Hillary either.

Trump eating up news cycles with one debacle after another as actually one of the best things that could happen to Hillary. It keeps her out of the media spotlight so she's not getting grilled as much and when she is it's not covered as much.

Because stories about her trying to defend the email nonsense aren't going to get as much traffic/eyeballs as another story about the latest Trump related drama.

Seriously, if Trump went dark for a few weeks and let attention shift back to Hillary that would probably be one of the best things for his campaign/worst for hers.

[Deleted]

A part of me thinks that Trump is a Hillary plant to ensure she wins the White House... I know it's a Conspiracy Theory but it makes more sense than what Trump is doing (to himself).

I've said this from the start. Trump used to play golf with Bill Clinton fgs.

[Pangean]

The Week They Decided He Was Crazy
Trump inflicts one wound after another on his campaign.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-week...azy-1470354031



This was an interesting read. She is not a fan of Hillary either.

No she is not. I am impressed she stayed sober enough to write this.

[DeadmanWalking]

Trump eating up news cycles with one debacle after another as actually one of the best things that could happen to Hillary. It keeps her out of the media spotlight so she's not getting grilled as much and when she is it's not covered as much.

Because stories about her trying to defend the email nonsense aren't going to get as much traffic/eyeballs as another story about the latest Trump related drama.

Seriously, if Trump went dark for a few weeks and let attention shift back to Hillary that would probably be one of the best things for his campaign/worst for hers.

Yes, 'If' he went dark, but we all know that Trump won't go dark because he needs the cameras like an elderly wrestler who shouldn't be wrestling needs an audience to continue breathing. He seeks the camera out and thinks everything he says and touches turns to solid gold. He is a text book narcissist, he not only seeks out the camera but he craves it. He has to get it, going dark is not an option. Hillary on the other hand is completely capable of disapearing for weeks on end because she knows it is politically advantageous to let Donald keep burying himself.

Donald is the Chaos candidate and you can't control Chaos. It isn't a matter of 'if' he says something damaging to his party and campaign, it isn't a matter of 'when' he does it, rather it is a matter of 'how often' he does so. Not if, not when, but how often. Could you imagine if I said that about a Volcano in your town? "We wonder how often this year that Volcano will erupt?" Not only can it happen, or that it will happen but it will repeatedly happen with no end in sight. Nobody would live near that Volcano.

[Pangean]

A part of me thinks that Trump is a Hillary plant to ensure she wins the White House... I know it's a Conspiracy Theory but it makes more sense than what Trump is doing (to himself).

Appreciate the comedy of the conspiracy theory and all but we are really seeing is the competence of his campaign and the very serious personality issues he has. He is running, as he says, his campaign like he run his business. Haphazard, unplanned and staffed with sycophants as opposed to the best people. This topped with his NPD where he cannot abide criticism gets us where we are now. He is in it to win. He really is. He is simply incompetently doing so.

[DeadmanWalking]

Appreciate the comedy of the conspiracy theory and all but we are really seeing is the competence of his campaign and the very serious personality issues he has. He is running, as he says, his campaign like he run his business. Haphazard, unplanned and staffed with sycophants as opposed to the best people. This topped with his NPD where he cannot abide criticism gets us where we are now. He is in it to win. He really is. He is simply incompetently doing so.

He is starting to get more competant people in his campaign, my wife, a life long democrat saw one of his advisors on CNN yesterday and said, "They were smart to hire him, he is very good, seems very sincere and knows what he is talking about and how to talk about it."

But that all points to the talking point of, "Dont worry, he will hire the smartest people to work for him." That is great and all, BUT you can hire all the smartest people that you want but it will do no good if you are incapable of listening to the smart people and incapable of not running off script or even remembering what the script is.

Which brings me to another point, 8 years ago the GOP said that Obama didn't have the experience to be president and you can't learn on the job. But when the inexperienced guy is -your guy- then it's okay because he will "Hire the smartest people to tell him how to run the nation."

*note, 'you and your' refers to the GOP in this case and not the person I am quoting*

[Lenonis]

A part of me thinks that Trump is a Hillary plant to ensure she wins the White House... I know it's a Conspiracy Theory but it makes more sense than what Trump is doing (to himself).

I recognize this possibility but I have such an incredibly hard time thinking this would actually happen -- not to mention the political fallout if this were to be discovered and leaked -- which given all the hacking and people who can't seem to keep a secret seems that it would have been discovered in some for or another.

I think Trump's actions after the election will be a good indicator on just what his ultimate motivations for running were.

Here are a few of my theories:
1) An actual, legit bid to become president tapping into a very populist anti-establishment message.
2) Running to increase his brand, was more successful than imagined and thus is now trying to ensure he loses without being completely obvious about it.
3) Hillary plant.
4) Very very bored rich guy who decided "what the heck" and is just basically the ultimate political troll.

What I think is striking is that he isn't actually spending his own money or really running much of a campaign. He loaned his campaign money which he'll get back (likely with interest) and is making money by using his properties and other items for campaign events (not sure how that's even legal honestly) and last but not least is relying on the free media coverage. I mean...has he spent any money in media at all at this point?

[Masark]

I've said this from the start. Trump used to play golf with Bill Clinton fgs.

Ginsberg and Scalia used to go to the Opera together, but you'd still find a lot of disagreement between them legally and politically.

[Pangean]

Theeeeiiiir back!!! The skewed poll folks. They are removing the "bias" of the polls to show Trump actually winning. In fact I had one of the Auzzie Trumpsters post one of these nonsense polls to support his claims the mainstream media is part of a conspiracy to elect Clinton. President Romney is so happy to see this.

Donald Trump’s poll numbers are so bad his supporters are making up new ones

The polls don’t look good at all for Donald Trump right now. The RealClearPolitics average of the polls has Hillary Clinton up by 6.7 points. The Huffington Post Pollster has Clinton up by 7.4 points. The New York Times gives Clinton an 80 percent chance of winning the election, and FiveThirtyEight gives her an 81.7 percent chance.

In the face of all this bad news, some Trump supporters have taken it upon themselves to, essentially, make up poll numbers that look favorable for Trump. This is Long Room, the website dedicated to changing poll numbers so they’re “unbiased”:



These poll numbers are total bullshit. The website’s methodology page claims that the tracker incorporates state data to accurately reflect the demographics of voters. But it seems that, in reality, if a pollster consistently gets results that favor Clinton, it’s deemed more “biased” — and Long Room changes the number further in Trump’s direction.

Of course, this misses the possibility that the great majority of polls aren’t biased at all and Clinton really is far ahead of Trump in the election.

Still, Trump supporters — especially at r/The_Donald on Reddit — are promoting this site to give themselves a bit of hope.

Now, there are problems with some of the polls out there. FiveThirtyEight, for example, grades all pollsters based on methodology and how well they accurately predicted election results in the past, and not all of them get good grades. Research 2000 and TCJ Research, for instance, get F's. But these aren’t the big polls showing Clinton way ahead — the A-grade Marist, for example, recently found Clinton 15 points ahead.

This isn’t the first time something like this has happened. Back in 2012, when the poll averages showed President Barack Obama ahead of Republican candidate Mitt Romney, conservative activist Dean Chambers started the now-defunct UnskewedPolls.com to “unskew” polls in Romney’s direction. But it turned out that the polling averages were right, and Obama won the election. (Chambers later said he was only wrong because he didn’t account for voter fraud — even though voter fraud is vanishingly rare.)

Maybe this is just a part of modern elections now. As more and more polling averages pop up and accurately predict elections, people on the losing side are going to look for some measure of hope that their candidate can really will win. So they’ll “unskew” or “unbias” the real polls, no matter how ridiculous it may seem.
http://www.vox.com/2016/8/5/12386128...n-biased-polls