[Legion] Terryn's guide to Affliction Warlock

[Halwyn]

So... Given the buff to T21, is there any changes of how it is supposed to be treated now? I mean, if going full council mode, with 4t21, Sacrolash, Hood and SL, is it worth it to try and keep the tier bonus rolling through the fight, like a maintaineance debuff?

[FroztSpectre]

My post keeps getting deleted in the "Fix-My-DPS" thread, so i've decided to post here instead.

Hi guys, I'm trying to get a hang of Aff lock rotation (MG/Contagion),

however i can't seem to constantly hit my simdps in a patchwerk setting, against a dummy.
Here's a fight log against a dummy: (Add in the www infront of the link)
warcraftlogs.com/reports/MgZTFwr83nkf4c1X#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=1

And here's a report of my simulated dps: (Add in the www infront of the link)
raidbots.com/simbot/report/aRmCvFrjApiwpooyF6nD4X/simc

More often than not, I'm not able to maintain that 80% uptime on Deadwind harvester,
Usually hitting between 40-70% uptime on Deadwind Harvester only.
Here's some example (scaled to 120secs):
warcraftlogs.com/reports/nRBp4vr72VygWjNK/#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=1&start=924786&end=1044965
warcraftlogs.com/reports/ztxC27h1W93QJmVp#type=damage-done&fight=last&source=1
warcraftlogs.com/reports/WVgmBwYzG7jP4acR/#fight=last&type=auras&source=1

(Ignore my other logs, I'm still trying to do a proper rotation on patchwerk before being able to dps in raid environment)

Another problem is, somehow even if I was able to hit my SimDPS. That'll only give me a whooping blue parse. Any idea where I might have gone wrong?
(Nope i do not have the Netherlord ring legendary. I have Master Harvester/Powercords/Sacrolash/Prydaz/Pillars/KJ trinket)

[Biomega]

Any idea where I might have gone wrong?

Thinking sims are applicable as guidelines for absolute numbers within the game is where you went wrong.

Sims have first and foremost COMPARATIVE value. If you want to know which piece of gear to take or which talent to switch, comparing two sims is a great way to go about things. What sims are NOT for is going "my sim says 2 million dps on patchwerk, so I should be pulling 2 million on Varimathras"; that is a very poor use of sims, because there are too many variable factors involved in actual encounters that sims don't model correctly. They'll be an approximation of sorts, but the margin for error is way too large to be truly useful in that respect.

Comparing against other people's real logs within close ilvl brackets is about as good as it gets in terms of objectively gauging performance, but even that method has an entire catalog of flaws and caveats attached. Part of that is due to the disproportionate impact of legendaries, trinkets, and relics, as those can cause staggering differences even at comparable ilvls. And there's general gear optimization to take into account as well, since ilvl doesn't care about WHICH stats you have just how many - and depending on class/spec you can get considerably more out of certain stats compared to others. So you may find yourself in a green parse in your ilvl, simply because your gear has poor stats on it - or you may rank orange simply because every piece you have has the perfect stat allocation for its slot (a problem especially pronounced at lower ilvl brackets).

If you want a truly in-depth analysis of a log, that takes a ton of work. You'll have to look in detail at mechanical issues (what did they get hit by? what did they make use of?), effect uptimes (not just flat percentages, but taking into account fight timings, number of casts, etc.), cooldown usage (what was lined up? was it timed for optimal overall use? around mechanics?) and so on. There are tools like Wow Analyzer that can help and automate this to some degree, but in the end there is no substitute for elbow grease and really digging around in logs - sometimes including failed attempts, as that may be of particular interest to people like officers trying to recruit people. But since this is hard work, people aren't exactly lining up to do it without much of an incentive.

I would suggest you analyze your logs yourself. Take the theorycrafting resources into consideration, and check for inconsistencies between your log and what you should be doing. Compare the finer details of your own log to those of other high-ranking people, and try to identify discrepancies (and/or similarities). If you stumble upon questions, ask those in places like here, being specific and providing data in easily digestible bits - just posting a log with 'what am I doing wrong?' will not attract a lot of people willing to answer, but I suppose there are nice people out there who will take the time, too.

...but the MOST important thing you should be doing is spamming raids, M+0s, and Argus invasion points so you get yourself the right legendaries. Welcome to Legion.

[xuros]

You guys bothering with mythic t20 2pc to go along with the t21 4pc for extra shard gen from corruption?

[Sting]

You guys bothering with mythic t20 2pc to go along with the t21 4pc for extra shard gen from corruption?

No. It's not that great to begin with in most situations, and with 4p21 you really want to be running the lego helm for a lot of fights.

[Biomega]

You guys bothering with mythic t20 2pc to go along with the t21 4pc for extra shard gen from corruption?

I believe the only real choice is between 4p20+2p21 and 4p21. Depending on fight and content (i.e. raid vs. M+).

[Agartha]

I can't really find up to date information for 2 target fights, is soul conduit or siphon life better?

[Biomega]

I can't really find up to date information for 2 target fights, is soul conduit or siphon life better?

They're close and it can vary with gear, but if it's really a STRICT 2-target fight then SL is better. However, that's only Hounds this tier. That doesn't mean you don't take SL on some other fights, too though - Kin'garoth, Argus, even ST fights like Varimathras or Imonar with the 4pc.

[SpikeySquad]

I can't really find up to date information for 2 target fights, is soul conduit or siphon life better?

What Biomega said but https://www.raidbots.com/simbot and do a "Talent Compare" sim. Without T21 SL will probably be slightly ahead. With T21 for me SL is actually 6% ahead though the LOSS sim profiles has it much closer together.

Not sure what difficulty you are doing but overall for 2T my preference is WiA-AC-SH-SL. Contagion may have a higher top end but statistically people tend to do better with AC below that and the results are close enough that I choose the easy life.

[Count Zero]

I just really love how right now a lot of different setups are pretty viable (talents, leggos, etc, etc), depending on the encounters and your play strengths/weaknesses..

On the other hand that makes it pretty hard to do good tests. Sims are all well and good but they don't do a great job of replicating real situations. LFR is barely better. Running heroic over and over would be the best but that's very time-consuming, and unless you're running with the same group (good luck on that) fight times will be wildly different, maybe strats will be different, etc, etc.

[Biomega]

Sims are all well and good but they don't do a great job of replicating real situations.

They're not meant to. They're used as a comparison tool for setup variants within one spec. As soon as you go outside of that the errors accumulate and make the data more and more unreliable (which is why things like class sim ranking are fairly silly).

While sims have their limitations, of course, they are fairly accurate for many, many scenarios. Much more accurate than eyeballing things or going by "log data" (which is subject to tremendous distorting effects). If you want to know if item X or item Y is better for you, there's basically no more optimal way to determine that than running Simcraft.

[SpikeySquad]

I just really love how right now a lot of different setups are pretty viable (talents, leggos, etc, etc), depending on the encounters and your play strengths/weaknesses..

On the other hand that makes it pretty hard to do good tests. Sims are all well and good but they don't do a great job of replicating real situations. LFR is barely better. Running heroic over and over would be the best but that's very time-consuming, and unless you're running with the same group (good luck on that) fight times will be wildly different, maybe strats will be different, etc, etc.

While sims do have their limitations Affy/trinket procs/other buffs/tier procs are far too RNG to really compare one of my parses to another in my opinion even with the same group set up, kill time and tactics.

When you have 10k+ interations in a sim or the 40k public Affy parses on Heroic Felhounds you get a much better picture of what can work. Then of course you need to apply it to yourself. If you don't play with Contagion that well and/or let Corruption drop then that 1% extra is not obtainable. Or if you have only have say 75% uptime on Agony or Corruption then it would be rather silly to add in SL.

[Biomega]

if you have only have say 75% uptime on Agony or Corruption then it would be rather silly to add in SL.

If you're an Affliction Warlock with 75% uptime on Agony or Corruption on Hounds, perhaps it's time to consider playing another class >_>

But all jokes aside, talents especially can be a bit trickier to model through sims because of things like fight-specific mechanics. Absolute Corruption is a good example, where on fights with e.g. certain enemies out of reach for extended periods of time (think Host in ToS) you can squeeze out a lot more damage out of the talent than any (generalized) sim would suggest. Same with talents like Death's Embrace, which may skyrocket in value against special enemies that spend a disproportionate time in execute range (Eye of Azshara last boss is a very extreme example). Sims can fail to account for that - but that's okay. The most important tool is your brain anyway, and when it comes to fight-specific setups sims are only one part of a much more complex thought process.

[SpikeySquad]

If you're an Affliction Warlock with 75% uptime on Agony or Corruption on Hounds, perhaps it's time to consider playing another class >_>

But all jokes aside, talents especially can be a bit trickier to model through sims because of things like fight-specific mechanics. Absolute Corruption is a good example, where on fights with e.g. certain enemies out of reach for extended periods of time (think Host in ToS) you can squeeze out a lot more damage out of the talent than any (generalized) sim would suggest. Same with talents like Death's Embrace, which may skyrocket in value against special enemies that spend a disproportionate time in execute range (Eye of Azshara last boss is a very extreme example). Sims can fail to account for that - but that's okay. The most important tool is your brain anyway, and when it comes to fight-specific setups sims are only one part of a much more complex thought process.

Indeed, like I said sims are not everything. Going back to our original topic of 2T also something like Felhounds on mythic where if your raid group asks you to stack at melee for the soaks then you will probably often be out of range of the other mutt. Hence, that definitely changes things up, on tier 30 anyhow, which talent would be optimal. Garothi mythic I am often out of range of the boss to soak and just moving a lot so again MG would be not optimal here either. Also I'm the first to admit I'm not the best player so on progress I personally tend to take easier/lower maintenance talents anyhow.

So absolutely so that's where log statistics, other knowledgeable locks and your own brains come in handy to name a few resources you should also take into account.

[Gnomognomo]

I'm a semi-casual/hardcore raider, depending of how your point of view, since i raid on a weekend guild going 6/11 mythic.

Talking about log parses in progress (i'm normally around 85-98 percentile), i would not worry too much about them, since most top logs from aff locks have raid setups or agreements to let them paddle more. In progress, intead of focusing on doing a good log, just try to do decent dps and ease the boss mechanics to your raid, for example by having a good positioning for AHC mines, saving the interrupt for last imps instead of insta proc sephuz at portal keeper, going with prydaz +dark pact+ portal for double soak at garothi.

[Deleted]

So I finally got my hands on 4pc, do we switch to SL over SC for ST now, or is the damage buff from UA not worth it?

[Biomega]

So I finally got my hands on 4pc, do we switch to SL over SC for ST now, or is the damage buff from UA not worth it?

SL usually, yeah. SC does retain its RNG potential where you can have crazy streaks, but RNG goes both ways; so unless you're trying to gamble for a high rank because that's all that's left for you in this game, go with the more reliable option and pick SL.

Of course, things might vary with setup so sim yourself to be sure. But you should always sim yourself anyway.

[Count Zero]

I switched to SL during progress on a fight and I was so shard-starved that attempt I just had to immediately switch back. I'm sure I just had shit RNG that pull but man, it really was terrible. I need to hit the practice dummies, I guess, to get a better feel for the difference in shard management. But maaaaan I do love me those streaks w/ SC where you just can't spend your shards fast enough.

[SpikeySquad]

I switched to SL during progress on a fight and I was so shard-starved that attempt I just had to immediately switch back. I'm sure I just had shit RNG that pull but man, it really was terrible. I need to hit the practice dummies, I guess, to get a better feel for the difference in shard management. But maaaaan I do love me those streaks w/ SC where you just can't spend your shards fast enough.

There's usually not a huge difference either way however, yes RNG plays a part.

I am actually the opposite to you. I much prefer the "new" rotation though yes it took a little time to get used to.

If you are shard starved then usually you have probably dumped too many UAs or too frequently. So many people refreshed before pandemic with SC/T20.

[Biomega]

It's also possible you're running on low Haste, which can put a crinkle in your shard generation, particularly if you're also not running the Helm.

But yes, bad UA cycling is a leading cause of shard starvation. Also not pooling shards for the right opportunity, like SH or boss mechanics.