Thread: Roll the bones

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  1. #1
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    Roll the bones

    Hey guys. I'm setting up some weak auras for myself and i want to know the priority of the RtB buffs.

    So far i know the cd reduction one is pretty much what we are fishing for, but what about the rest?

  2. #2
    This is my general idea of it right now:

    1. CD reduction with Adrenaline Rush off cooldown
    2. Crit
    3. Higher chance of free pistol shot
    4. Energy regen
    5. Extra combo points
    6. CD reduction when Adrenaline Rush on cooldown
    7. Attack Speed

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordAmbrosia View Post
    This is my general idea of it right now:

    1. CD reduction with Adrenaline Rush off cooldown
    2. Crit
    3. Higher chance of free pistol shot
    4. Energy regen
    5. Extra combo points
    6. CD reduction when Adrenaline Rush on cooldown
    7. Attack Speed
    Am i missing something or did you list some weird buffs?

    1. Cd Reduction
    2. Crit
    3. Saber Slash
    4. Attack speed
    5. Combo Points
    6. Energy Regen

    Also if these where the right buffs:

    CD reduction when adrenaline rush is in cd would certainly be the best one? It makes 0 sense having a cd reduction when adrenaline rush is ready to use.
    Last edited by mmocfe2bab4c21; 2016-08-03 at 02:49 PM.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! WskyDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nupomaniac View Post
    Am i missing something or did you list some weird buffs?

    1. Cd Reduction
    2. Crit
    3. Saber Slash
    4. Attack speed
    5. Combo Points
    6. Energy Regen

    Also if these where the right buffs:

    CD reduction when adrenaline rush is in cd would certainly be the best one? It makes 0 sense having a cd reduction when adrenaline rush is ready to use.
    He didn't list weird buffs. And his priority is generally correct.
    Attack speed is the least important single buff to have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nupomaniac View Post
    CD reduction when adrenaline rush is in cd would certainly be the best one? It makes 0 sense having a cd reduction when adrenaline rush is ready to use.
    You want to have Adrenaline Rush to activate when you roll a True Bearing because you spend twice as many combo points during Adrenaline Rush, making True bearing reduce twice as much. It puts the cooldown of Adrenaline Rush at about 0.5-1.5 minutes depending on if you got any other buffs on the roll. Outside of AR you will get only about a minute off of AR and if it comes up with <15 seconds remaining on TB then you won't get the full effect if you use it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordAmbrosia View Post
    You want to have Adrenaline Rush to activate when you roll a True Bearing because you spend twice as many combo points during Adrenaline Rush, making True bearing reduce twice as much. It puts the cooldown of Adrenaline Rush at about 0.5-1.5 minutes depending on if you got any other buffs on the roll. Outside of AR you will get only about a minute off of AR and if it comes up with <15 seconds remaining on TB then you won't get the full effect if you use it.
    Ok that makes sense. Thx for info

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! WskyDK's Avatar
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    To explain the rest of the list
    Crit- obvious, increases damage of everything
    Pistol shot- with quick draw talented this is a pretty significant damage increase
    Energy regen- self explanatory
    More combo points- again, self explanatory
    Cd reduction without AR on cd- reduces mark for death as well
    Attack speed - leech does nothing in raid, and attack speed != haste
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  8. #8
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    Do you fish for True bearing before you activate AR then?

    Icy veins lists swords master over Quick draw atm.(i dont know where else to get any info). Is this wrong then?

    Also if you have the crit buff, do u use Between the eyes instead of Run through(on the tooltips it would seem it does a lot more damage when it chrits then run through does)
    Last edited by mmocfe2bab4c21; 2016-08-03 at 03:13 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nupomaniac View Post
    Do you fish for True bearing before you activate AR then?

    Icy veins lists swords master over Quick draw atm.(i dont know where else to get any info). Is this wrong then?

    Also if you have the crit buff, do u use Between the eyes instead of Run through(on the tooltips it would seem it does a lot more damage when it chrits then run through does)
    I don't bother fishing for anything at this point outside of the pull. I'll pop marked for death and if I don't like the first roll, I'll build and re-roll. I pop ar on pull too.

    I had sword master at first, and didn't really notice any difference. The buff for free proc a coupled with the damage boost seems much better.
    I do use BtE with the crit buff, but only because I don't have class trinket
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  10. #10
    It not so much that you should fish for something in particular, just try to get a roll that's "good enough". Any 3 buff is good enough, and most 2 buffs as long as they aren't both low on the priority list. Keeping a 1 buff it needs to be true bearing if AR is off cooldown or coming off cooldown, or it needs to be the crit. I believe you are supposed to re-roll any of the other single buffs, I would be tempted to keep jolly roger though since it feels so strong to me.

    I should also add that the artifact ability combos with true bearing in a way similar to AR, and in some cases it will get TB up in enough time to use Adrenaline rush for the second half of the TB buff.

    Swordmaster and Quick Draw are very similar in terms of damage.
    Last edited by LordAmbrosia; 2016-08-03 at 04:15 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordAmbrosia View Post
    Swordmaster and Quick Draw are very similar in terms of damage.
    While true, the benefit of quickdraw really shines when you get jolly rodger. Many more procs of PS, which if you can get broadsides and/or TB makes the spec really fly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LordAmbrosia View Post
    This is my general idea of it right now:

    1. CD reduction with Adrenaline Rush off cooldown
    2. Crit
    3. Higher chance of free pistol shot
    4. Energy regen
    5. Extra combo points
    6. CD reduction when Adrenaline Rush on cooldown
    7. Attack Speed
    This list is out-dated by a couple weeks. Sim's were ran and found that SiW (the crit buff) is the top buff to have and fish for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    I did some Roll the Bones tests:
    840 gear with balanced stats, no special proc trinkets, full artifact (no relics). You can see the character setup toward the bottom of the report (expand it to see the gear, etc).



    (The 4th line is "ReRoll any 2 buff combo if you get Grand Melee, but keep 1 buff if you have Shark Infested Waters").

    For links to the reports, I have a full blog post.

    Also, in case you find it useful... never rerolling has you apply the buff about 11 times in a fight. The rest apply the buff 20-30 times in a fight.

  13. #13
    Looking at the rotation used for that simulation, it actually doesn't factor in the timing of adrenaline rush at all, it just uses it on cooldown and doesn't switch priority of TB based on it, so I'm not convinced its accurate. Its a spec thats pretty difficult to sim.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by LordAmbrosia View Post
    Looking at the rotation used for that simulation, it actually doesn't factor in the timing of adrenaline rush at all, it just uses it on cooldown and doesn't switch priority of TB based on it, so I'm not convinced its accurate. Its a spec thats pretty difficult to sim.
    Because it doesn't matter.

    It's not ever worth delaying AR, and true bearing + any other buff that increases CP generation (Broadsides, Jolly Roger, Buried Treasure) is just as good at reducing the cooldown on AR/MfD/DfA/KS/CB while they are on cooldown.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kindath View Post
    Because it doesn't matter.

    It's not ever worth delaying AR, and true bearing + any other buff that increases CP generation (Broadsides, Jolly Roger, Buried Treasure) is just as good at reducing the cooldown on AR/MfD/DfA/KS/CB while they are on cooldown.
    Yeah, I generally try not to delay AR for TB. When I see the cooldown coming up, maybe 20 seconds left, I'll fish for either TB+something good or just a solid 3-roll and pop it when it comes up.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by kindath View Post
    It's not ever worth delaying AR
    You don't delay it, im talking about what you are looking for when A Rush is coming off cooldown soon.

    Edit: I misread your second point. I agree with what Tellof says, thats all im saying all along.
    Last edited by LordAmbrosia; 2016-08-03 at 06:17 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LordAmbrosia View Post
    You don't delay it, im talking about what you are looking for when A Rush is coming off cooldown soon.

    Edit: I misread your second point. I agree with what Tellof says, thats all im saying all along.
    If you're fishing for Sharks, though - 40% crit (+ misc other buffs) on top of adrenaline rush is a pretty huge DPS increase, and you still get CD reduction (less, of course) when you do happen to roll TB.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by LordAmbrosia View Post
    Looking at the rotation used for that simulation, it actually doesn't factor in the timing of adrenaline rush at all, it just uses it on cooldown and doesn't switch priority of TB based on it, so I'm not convinced its accurate. Its a spec thats pretty difficult to sim.
    You don't delay AR for TB. You don't delay it at all, as is said above.

    You use AR as a filler when you don't have a buff that speeds up resource gen(CP or energy). Now that doesn't mean you should delay it, it means if you happen to come up with a GM/TB/SiW combo and AR is there, use it to coast until you can get one of the other three buffs to prop up your resource gen.

    You want a fast fast fast pace...+SiW.

    As an example, my favorite combo is SiW+Broadsides+Buried Treasure, put in TB/GM for BT and it's just as potent. (6 proc is of course, the best)

    Edit: it should also be noted that with SiW, i'm sitting at 86% crit...Let that sink in, there's never been a point in the game's history where a player could maintain 80%+ crit on all damage for minutes on end.
    Last edited by elfporn; 2016-08-03 at 07:35 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kindath View Post
    I tried it out:

    Reroll unless you have Sharks or 3+ buffs, keep True Bearing if you have 2+ buffs and AR is currently up or coming up within 20s

    (Keeping TB by itself was a pretty big loss)

    Original results from S/3+

    Results:
    S3+, TB2+AR 221104 DPS MoE 96,
    S3+ 221135 DPS MoE 104

    In other words, no statistical difference between the two.

    Keeping TB gives an average of 5.1 uses of AR, not keeping it gives an average of 4.8.

    I'm now realizing that I probably should have tried testing with MfD, I didn't think about it since the original test was using DfA.
    That's actually encouraging to hear, because it tells me that I can continue to play with this variation based on how it feels rather than doing something unpleasant for the sake of min-maxing.

    When I first started fishing for SIW/3+/Etc I felt like it was way too much fishing, so I started running with Alacrity and MFD to try and smooth that out. I liked it a lot and it felt more natural to me.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellof View Post
    That's actually encouraging to hear, because it tells me that I can continue to play with this variation based on how it feels rather than doing something unpleasant for the sake of min-maxing.

    When I first started fishing for SIW/3+/Etc I felt like it was way too much fishing, so I started running with Alacrity and MFD to try and smooth that out. I liked it a lot and it felt more natural to me.
    i also like to do MfD much more than DFA, i prefer cannonball barrage/alacrity for aoe/ST, especially with SiW fishing.

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