Everybody is too resilient

[Gouca]

• Healers shouldn't be able to single-handedly outheal a DPS, healers shouldn't be able to output damage
• DPS shouldn't be able to heal at all, nor take much damage
• Tanks shouldn't be able to output damage

Three roles that made the game excessively great and interesting a decade ago. Why is everybody healing, dealing and taking damage these days? Even the shortest battle takes freaking ages. Why are you given the same gear others worked for? Who cares if people one shot each other? It's not balanced, no, but it's really really fun. And everybody can work and progress towards being on the dominant side.

[Deleted]

BAAAAWWWW, I can't pop reck bladestorm and tunnel people to death in 2 globals, how do I melee nao?! BAAAAWWWW!!!

Here, I fixed that for you.

Infracted.

[Mirishka]

• Healers shouldn't be able to single-handedly outheal a DPS, healers shouldn't be able to output damage
• DPS shouldn't be able to heal at all, nor take much damage
• Tanks shouldn't be able to output damage

Three roles that made the game excessively great and interesting a decade ago. Why is everybody healing, dealing and taking damage these days? Even the shortest battle takes freaking ages. Why are you given the same gear others worked for? Who cares if people one shot each other? It's not balanced, no, but it's really really fun. And everybody can work and progress towards being on the dominant side.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but yours is quite stupid.

[Justpassing]

ITT: shoulda coulda woulda

[Soisoisoi]

• Healers shouldn't be able to single-handedly outheal a DPS, healers shouldn't be able to output damage
• DPS shouldn't be able to heal at all, nor take much damage
• Tanks shouldn't be able to output damage

Three roles that made the game excessively great and interesting a decade ago. Why is everybody healing, dealing and taking damage these days? Even the shortest battle takes freaking ages. Why are you given the same gear others worked for? Who cares if people one shot each other? It's not balanced, no, but it's really really fun. And everybody can work and progress towards being on the dominant side.

So, you want to one shot people, as @Rurts aptly put it, with a swifty macro? Because that's what you're saying here.

Healers NEED to be able to outheal one DPS, at least for a limited amount of time, else they'd never be able to keep their team mates up.
DPS need to be able to have some survival, else games would literally just be whichever class deals most damage wins. Some classes heal, some classes take less damage.
Tanks, I agree. They should be an annoyance in PvP and that's it. They should not be doing anywhere near the damage they currently deal. Luckily, they are not close to viable in arena anyway.

[Gouca]

So, you want to one shot people, as @Rurts aptly put it, with a swifty macro? Because that's what you're saying here.

As a DPS, yes. That's how it was back in the day until Cataclysm and that's where people enjoyed the game the most.

DPS need to be able to have some survival, else games would literally just be whichever class deals most damage wins.

Wait what, damage dealers.. need not deal the most damage? Now this is the whole point of the topic. They're damage dealers. Their only output should be damage and CC. The combination of those two would result in life or death.

Some classes heal, some classes take less damage.

And why is that? It worked very well in the past that cloth users had the least health points and armor. Not everybody needs damage reduction.

[Hhavok]

I would've agreed with a thread title that said everyone is more resilient, but I'm not sure I'd say too resilient. There's just more time and strategy involved in your fights, which is fun for some. Warlocks on the other hand, they're too resilient, lol.

[Saberstrike]

The problem is two-fold:

A) 1v1 / BGs -- people are indeed too tanky. Rogues / Druids / Warlocks / Healers being the worst offenders, those classes should die faster. On the other hand DK / Warrior flops down like a sack of potatoes, and need to be brought up in survivability. Just a little.

B) Arena. When 2/3 people blow their burst there's very little even a good healer can do to save a druid or a rogue caught in a stun; On the other hand, CC and hard immunities like bubble / ice block shine once again because burst is still tied to long cooldowns.

So... I don't know. I feel like a nerf is needed, but arena people will whine if it happens.

[Soisoisoi]

As a DPS, yes. That's how it was back in the day until Cataclysm and that's where people enjoyed the game the most.

Enjoyed the game most in Cata? Are you high? Other than WoD, most people regard Cata as awful, if not the "downfall" of WoW itself. It is the common choice for worst expansion. Not my opinion, but it is the majority polled on here and... apparently other places after a quick Google search:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/poll.php...do=showresults
http://www.strawpoll.me/4750474/r
http://www.strawpoll.me/1091799/r

Wait what, damage dealers.. need not deal the most damage? Now this is the whole point of the topic. They're damage dealers. Their only output should be damage and CC. The combination of those two would result in life or death.

No. Try reading that again. I never said anything about DPS not needing damage, I said if they have no survival then whoever does the most damage wins no matter what.

And why is that? It worked very well in the past that cloth users had the least health points and armor. Not everybody needs damage reduction.

No, but everyone DOES need some way to survive, be it higher base damage reduction, heals, cooldowns or otherwise. Just because you can't one shot people doesn't mean they need less survivability. You actually have to use your brain a little more than way back then.

[Snegovik]

Here, I fixed that for you.

off topic, but i loved ur post

[Charge me Doctor]

Healers shouldn't be able to single-handedly outheal a DPS, healers shouldn't be able to output damage

Well that's a clueless PvPer for you

- - - Updated - - -

As a DPS, yes. That's how it was back in the day until Cataclysm and that's where people enjoyed the game the most.

Wow 5 ele shamans arenas were so much fun, because that's epitome of what you want and what it will be if you gut healers (why bring a healer if he can't outheal damage of a single damage dealer) and gut tanks (why bring a tank if he can't be a threat). Yeha, you stuck with people stacking DPS classes with quick burst damage.

- - - Updated - - -

As a DPS, yes. That's how it was back in the day until Cataclysm and that's where people enjoyed the game the most.

Wait what, damage dealers.. need not deal the most damage? Now this is the whole point of the topic. They're damage dealers. Their only output should be damage and CC. The combination of those two would result in life or death.

And why is that? It worked very well in the past that cloth users had the least health points and armor. Not everybody needs damage reduction.

What? People actually enjoyed getting killed in a global? Are you nuts? I bet you that people who got poly>pyro>pom>pyro'd to death by me in world pvp weren't having any fun, and looking back, i wouldn't have fun either because it's 0 challenge.

damage dealers should be dispensing damage and CC? Why having other roles then?

Sure warlocks had least health and armour kappa. It was so much better back then when i had 2k health on my mage.

[NatePsy]

The change they went with in this expansion made it so that everyone was on the same level playing field, meaning that skill is now the determining factor behind who wins a fight. That's how it should be, PvP should be enjoyed and apparently it wasn't very enjoyed by the people that wanted to jump into it, only to be presented with a painful fact that someone in much better gear is going to crush you within a few seconds.

[Lucetia]

The problem is two-fold:

A) 1v1 / BGs -- people are indeed too tanky. Rogues / Druids / Warlocks / Healers being the worst offenders, those classes should die faster. On the other hand DK / Warrior flops down like a sack of potatoes, and need to be brought up in survivability. Just a little.

B) Arena. When 2/3 people blow their burst there's very little even a good healer can do to save a druid or a rogue caught in a stun; On the other hand, CC and hard immunities like bubble / ice block shine once again because burst is still tied to long cooldowns.

So... I don't know. I feel like a nerf is needed, but arena people will whine if it happens.

If you are going by right now in it's current state things will be completely messed up. All classes are currently balanced for 110. Level 100's are balanced with artifacts in mind since we'll be able to obtain them at 98 here soon. Pre-patches will always do that. It's just the wave we have to ride until then. If it still happens at 110 then yeah things can be changed some.

[Saberstrike]

Trust me when I say 'it's balanced at 110' doesn't work as an argument because mechanically things stay the same, people just do more damage. So to that end for example an outlaw rogue is VASTLY tankier than majority of melees, and it only gets worse with artifact (get healed for absorbing spells in cloak of shadows, generate 5 combo points per attack like during dragon soul op tier, etc etc.)

[Deleted]

• Healers shouldn't be able to single-handedly outheal a DPS, healers shouldn't be able to output damage
• DPS shouldn't be able to heal at all, nor take much damage
• Tanks shouldn't be able to output damage

Three roles that made the game excessively great and interesting a decade ago. Why is everybody healing, dealing and taking damage these days? Even the shortest battle takes freaking ages. Why are you given the same gear others worked for? Who cares if people one shot each other? It's not balanced, no, but it's really really fun. And everybody can work and progress towards being on the dominant side.

If tanks can't do any damage then wtf are they good for in Pvp? You can't force people to hit you

[XangXu]

Here, I fixed that for you.

Infracted.

He may have been interacted by your horrible moderators, but he's right.

Boo hoo.

[solarfallz]

I agree with the subject line but not the actual OP.

I play this game to kill other players, not to tickle each other until one of us runs out of defensive cooldowns. There is nothing wrong with people dying fast.

[Seneca]

I agree with the subject line but not the actual OP.

I play this game to kill other players, not to tickle each other until one of us runs out of defensive cooldowns. There is nothing wrong with people dying fast.

In legion everyone is less tanky, or so it seems.

Pre-patch wise everyone seems a bit too tanky, yeah.

I know that I refuse to attack a warlock if I am alone in a bg/arena and just look for another fight if possible (pre-patch wise). Having played a balance druid this week didn''t help surely, considering that warlock healing power is higher and pressure is too LoL (cc and survivability too, now that I think about that boomkins look like a lesser form of affli locks).

[aysatsana]

Agreed. Healers are almost impossible to kill as a DPS, only if you're teamed up on him or if you are lucky with your burst. Try 1v1ing a healer as a survival hunter, nearly impossible to kill him and he will kill you over time with his damage because you have no heals (other than 1 30% heal every 3min). A healer shouldn't beat a dps in 1v1, it's supposed to be a support class. It's been like this for a while and sucks. Also, DPS, especially classes like warlocks, shouldn't be so tanky and have so much healing. It's ridiculous that someone can just drain life through my damage and have so many heals as a dps.

I thought BGs were a lot better when there was a gear difference, you could be fully geared and actually kill stuff which was really fun. Who cares about balancing the gear for regular BGs? They're not meant to be competitive, just make gear standerized for RBGs and arenas. If you put in the time to get better gear you should be rewarded. The damage output right now makes for boring gameplay in BGs. The best times was when you were fully geared with some PVE trinkets back in wrath and could go in there and destroy things. Unfair? Yes, but I never complained about it when I was undergeared and on the receiving end. It's not rated, who cares?

Not only have they made the gear difference irrelevant, but they also greatly reduced the skill cap with the pruning, so it's hard to differentiate yourself with other players. There's almost no difference between a good hunter and a bad hunter now, which is terrible design. Shouldn't we strive to become better at our class? I remember beating other hunters easily because I actually used all those spells that most casual hunter's didn't bother using. Now, how the hell can I be better than another hunter if there are like 8 spells total to use, and they're all so straight forward to use? It feels like every player is on the same level now, since that level is so easy to reach.

At the end of the day I don't think it will change. Blizzard has decided this is how they want to make the game and I doubt they will revert changes like this.

[solarfallz]

Getting one shot makes competitive pvp completely zero fun. You must not do that much.

Don't get hit.