Abilities that you think should not have survived the ability purge, for pvp sake.

[Saberstrike]

I wouldn't mind vanilla vanish, no! This 'immune to unstealthing' '''''fix'''''' also feels like something that just needs to be removed already, given how bleeds / aoes are a lot more limited now.

I mean hell Rend is a talent. REND! The #1 reason rogue vanish fix existed in the first place. And to top it all off rogues also still have subterfuge, which effectively also fixes vanish (you wont be invisible but most good rogues use vanish offensively anyway).

Also inclined to agree about invisibility / stealth being generally dumb in this game. And that's coming from someone who plays almost exclusively night elves! Tho, with demon hunters detecting everything it might actually be the expansion where stealth feels the least comfortable -- if the class doesn't get overnerfed to a point where nobody will play it.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Spellsteals, and the like.

Because some classes rely on very specific buffs, and having literally no defence against dispels makes said classes unable to put up any kind of fight.

[Sencha]

The list would be too long.

[Alanar]

The constant resets eith rogues plus all extra they get plus op damagr makes them hated by a mile which is understandable.
Dint they get an ability which just reset it next to vanish?
Also with the teting of legendary in 110 pvp realm it heals them for 20% health over 5 sec when used with feint is rediculous op lol.

Gouge was always the thing thay i hoped to be pruned cus the cc they have is to much compared to others.
I am probb getting flamed bu a rogue here anyway.

[barrsftw]

Not really. Evasion / Riposte / Cloak / Vial are already some of the most potent defensives in the game; kidney shot / between the eyes are the strongest stun in the game, with the lowest cooldown in the game. And as I said -- it's not like you'll -lose- stealth. You'll just need to think how and when to use it, instead of going full yolo because you can just lolvanish if you get in trouble.

It may be an unpopular opinion but it is my firm belief that 'get outta sh*t for free' buttons are bad for the game. Vanish is one of them -- alongside ice block, bubble, aspect of the turtle. Much as I hate cloak I think the problem with cloak is that most rogues use it to vanish; So something needs to be done to break that combo which in 99% of cases can't be countered. Removing vanish is the easiest solution, that also won't make rogues a free kill for wizards.

IDK If I'd say a single target 5s stun is stronger than an AOE 5s stun (Chaos Nova, Leg Sweep). The shorter cooldown brings it's power up, making it more on par, and probably slightly better than the AOE stuns.

[xhisors]

Spellsteals, and the like.

Because some classes rely on very specific buffs, and having literally no defence against dispels makes said classes unable to put up any kind of fight.

Spellsteal isn't so much an issue i think as its a great niche spell that can't cause havoc forever and ever. The mage talent that steals all spells is so broken against rdruids though.

Purges on the other hand are so annoying. But I don't think they need to be removed just tweaked, maybe a short cd like 5 seconds or something.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Spellsteal isn't so much an issue i think as its a great niche spell that can't cause havoc forever and ever. The mage talent that steals all spells is so broken against rdruids though.

Purges on the other hand are so annoying. But I don't think they need to be removed just tweaked, maybe a short cd like 5 seconds or something.

Well if you discard the fact that spellsteals and dispels nullify paladin mobility(what's there to it anyway) and half of paladin defensive cds, then yes,, these are very niche spells indeed.

[shaunika123]

Well if you discard the fact that spellsteals and dispels nullify paladin mobility(what's there to it anyway) and half of paladin defensive cds, then yes,, these are very niche spells indeed.

wait
you can dispel steed?

[Morally Grey Storm]

wait
you can dispel steed?

No.
But you can snare it, cc it, thus nullifying it completely.

[A dot Ham]

Remove cloak... What?

Anti Magic Shell
Diffuse Magic
Reverse Magic
Ice Block
Divine Shield
... a few examples of similar mechanics.

As a melee, counter playing spell-casters at certain points is important. It would be ridiculous for everybody to just die to dots, or lose out to that fear that couldn't be interrupted. It's an important part of the arms race.

In fact, cloak is strong but the weakest of the mentioned abilities. It wipes dots and allows the rogue to use his own mechanics again. Diffuse, Reverse send the effects back to the originator. AMS gives the DK more damage, and if talented an explosion of damage.

Bad thread.

Wrong. These should have never been added in the first place. It detracted from traditional fantasy character archetypes and made this game homogenized trash.

A caster is weak against melee because they don't wear armor. A heavily armored melee is weak against a caster because spells ignore the metaphysical. Its a fair and equitable trade-off.

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Every man for himself only removes stun effects, it's garbage now

LULZ! Or it made it even more OP. Most people only use their trinket/racial for stuns anyway.

If that was you, you now have 2 stun breakers.

[jackofwind]

wait
you can dispel steed?

Freedom is the crux of Paladin mobility, not steed.

The fact that every single defensive and offensive CD Paladins have access to can be dispelled or spellstolen is pretty terrible.

[Deleted]

Well Cloak of Shadows is bugged so spells usually hit through it anyway.

[ItachiZaku]

It's garbage because there is no way you would use it over your trinket, since they share a cooldown.

It's an upgrade since you have more frequent CC break and allows you to pick another tier option.

I'd remove Divine Shield, no one should ever be immune and still able to hit for over 100K in PVP.

[rogoth]

They lost prep, but it was obvious this would be an anti rogue thread before I clicked it.
What else makes them avoid damage from magic specifically? Rogues lost double sprint, evasion, vanish, smoke bomb (sub pvp talent), burst of speed, etc.
Assassination doesn't have blind or gouge.

Cloak of shadows was put in during TBC and is an iconic ability now.
You gave pretty much no compelling reasons for your argument. I know it's just your opinion and you're entitled to that, but I don't think anyone would really agree with you.

army of the dead was added in wrath as one of the major selling points of the DK class, and was an iconic ability that was used by all specs for one purpose or another, an that got pruned for fuck knows what reason.

decurse had been in game as a mage specific tool to remove harmful magic since classic, being the wielders of pure magic it fit the class fantasy that they were the ones that could also undo harmful magic (curses specifically in terms of gameplay) but that was deemed too much of a niche ability for fucks knows what reason.

there are a huge list of spells and abilities that have been removed for no good reason other than "we felt like it" which should have remained, and another long list of spells and abilities that have remained that should have maybe seen change or removed flat out instead, i personally think they have gone too far this time around, and the classes i play feel nothing like the original classes i started playing back in classic, many of the awesome class buff are gone, all of the class specific tools have either been blanket removed, or have been given to other classes because fuck knows why, can you tell i'm bitter about it yet?, furthermore many of the changes have no thought into how it affects older gameplay, and makes some mechanics impossible to handle now that some of these spells and abilities were removed.

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Spellsteals, and the like.

Because some classes rely on very specific buffs, and having literally no defence against dispels makes said classes unable to put up any kind of fight.

if you are losing a pvp match because of spellsteal, you are doing it wrong, it costs 20% of a mages total mana bar, that means 5 spellsteal casts and he is oom, which means 0 damage, which means a useless defenceless mage, shaman have purge, does the exact same thing sans giving the buff effects (which in 99% of cases are useless to the mage anyway), yet nobody every complains about purge because shaman have many other annoying abilities that counter people that others tend to whine over more.

[Morally Grey Storm]

if you are losing a pvp match because of spellsteal, you are doing it wrong

If only I have stated such thing.
GJ on assuming .

spellsteal costs 20% of a mages total mana bar

it costs 21% of BASE mana, not total.
Get you facts straight kthx.

that means 5 spellsteal casts and he is oom, which means 0 damage, which means a useless defenceless mage

obviously totally false.

shaman have purge, does the exact same thing sans giving the buff effects (which in 99% of cases are useless to the mage anyway), yet nobody every complains about purge because shaman have...

... never been as strong or viable as Mages IN ADDITION to purge/spellsteal.

Good day sir.

[rogoth]

If only I have stated such thing.
GJ on assuming .

since you made a blanket statement without any context what more are we expected to do with such an asinine comment.

it costs 21% of BASE mana, not total.
Get you facts straight kthx.

at 110 "base mana" and "maximum mana" are EXACTLY THE SAME FOR ALL CLASSES AND SPECS THAT USE MANA, the only exception to this is arcane mages due to mastery and talents, and by my maths at 110, having a "BASE MANA POOL" of 1.1M mana, that makes spellsteal empty the mana bar after 5 casts kkthnxbai.

and just to be extra pedantic it is just under 21% base mana, the game rounds up, but i guess you knew that already?

obviously totally false.


... never been as strong or viable as Mages IN ADDITION to purge/spellsteal.

so i should just ignore the fact that KFC/LSD/Shadowplay/Shatterplay/Beastcleave/RLS/WMS and Angelcleave comps exist and have all been very competetive at one point in time or other an all involve shaman being a mandatory member of the comp, oh wait...........

Good day sir.

thank you, it has been a good day.

[Morally Grey Storm]

thank you, it has been a good day.

it would be somewhat even better if certain someone took time to learn his shit before trying to step into discussion.

5 spellsteal casts = oom mage.
/rofl

[xhisors]

Well if you discard the fact that spellsteals and dispels nullify paladin mobility(what's there to it anyway) and half of paladin defensive cds, then yes,, these are very niche spells indeed.

This is an issue with paladins not the design of spellsteal.

Purge as I said before needs to be tweaked.

No.
But you can snare it, cc it, thus nullifying it completely.

Again an issue with paladin design which I have to agree this is a serious problem. People are going to be playing prot pally more than ret at this point purely on utility that prot is brining at 110.

[Demsi]

Spellsteal and Ice block.

[xhisors]

Spellsteal and Ice block.

What defensive do you think mages should have if you remove ice block? Do you think they are good without a major defensive CD such as Ice block?