What doomed, in your opinion, the Star Wars Old Extended Universe ?

[Poopymonster]

It was doomed on May 25th, 1977, and everything went downhill after that.

[Shadowferal]

Considering that Lucas is has said flat out that "The Empire Strikes Back" is the worst movie of the lot says something about Lucas and his huge ego.

Obviously he had different ideas for "The Empire Strikes Back" (Probably didn't help that his ex-wife helped make it) The reason the first three films were so awesome (from what I can tell) is that a lot of different people's imaginations went into them. The first three films were as much a collaboration of the individual actors (C3PO invented his way of moving/acting I think.) and other people working on the show as much as it was George.

In episodes 1-3 George is given the world. Creative control to do whatever the fuck he wants because he made Star Wars. And he fucks it up royally because he has a bunch of shitty ideas and no one to tell him "no."
The more I learn about how the films were actually made, the more I'm pissed that George Lucas takes sole credit for the 70's trilogy. Those films are clearly not "George Lucas" films IMO, they are "George Lucas and a ton of dedicated, creative and ambitious people working together" films. Episodes 1-3 are George Lucas Films, because he had a lot more control. And we see what that gets us; Jar-Jar Binks and midichlorians...damn.

[Orange Joe]

I have a theory about George Lucas. It's a theory I've had for years.

I think GL likes Star Wars, but not the Star Wars fans love. We love the Sci-fi, fantasy, action part of it.


He wanted it to be a space opera/love story.

[Deleted]

I would've at least liked to see Old Republic time period as canon. That to me is more interesting than the movie saga and there were some great stories in there. As far as the EU being redundant, too messy and too convoluted.

WoW has a lot of shit stuff as well but since its a video game series with most of the backstory told through an MMO, it doesn't matter as much.

[zealo]

I find it unlikely that George Lucas would hate star wars, if he did he wouldn't have personally bankrolled things like the clone wars, that even in the earlier seasons had multiple million dollar budgets per episode. That show weren't profitable when being made, yet it was done anyway. Its why Rebels looks so much worse in terms of animation quality when done by Disney.

[Slant]

I have a theory about George Lucas. It's a theory I've had for years.

He's a shitty director and he knows it (at least compared to his contemporaries like Steven Spielberg and Francis Ford Coppola). He just hit it big relatively early in his career and has ridden the wave since the unexpected success of the original Star Wars.

It's weird that between Star Wars Episode IV and the Phantom Menace, George Lucas did a whole lot of nothing. He produced / oversaw ESB, RotJ. He did a couple of specials. He collaborated on Indian Jones through the late 80s. And when when Steven Spielberg was cranking out Jurassic Park, Schindlers List, Hook, Saving Private Ryan and Amistad... he was basically sitting at home.

Apparently Star Wars was a pretty personally miserable experience for him, but one that made him a tremendously wealthy man. I think he figured his limitations and quality and decided to just live off his success for a while. The Prequel trilogy, critically panned as it was, was a merchandise grand slam. He got tremendously wealthy again off of that.

I honestly wonder if Geroge Lucas even likes Star Wars. Comments he made pre-sale over the years gives me the impression he views his entire creation with a kind of cynical contempt that it was a story filled with ridiculous aliens with ridiculous names and silly fantasy in space form, that made him rich - a director who got his start in rather Avant Garde filmmaking. My guess is, he's always somewhat hated Star Wars... but boy does he love the house it bought, to paraphrase Michael Caine.


Star Wars has always been better in hands other than Lucas's. The highs of the EU at times are almost subversive of Lucas' pure Star Wars. There is Empire Strikes back of course, and parts of Return of the Jedi. I think that's what makes Rogue One exciting. I thought I was excited about the sequel trilogy. Turns out, from seeing some Sandtroopers on a tank patrolling a city, the truly sprawling Galactic Empire at it's height may be even more interesting, especially if there is no Jedis in sight. We've gotten this in spades in Rebels to a degree.

I think there's no reason for him to hate it, the phenomenon. The movies, perhaps. But that's the curse of professionals, they look at their own work differently. I agree that he had a lot of luck, but it's easy to say things like that in hindsight. It's not easy to have an idea that simply cannot fail. And look at it as you want, SW couldn't fail. What else was around at the same time? 2001, a movie that is more arts than plot. Alien, a movie that was considered an actual horror movie instead of the brilliant dark scifi that it is. And a whole wagonload of cheap 70s productions. Just look at Battlestar Galactica... my god. As much as I like the series, it is pure trash even by those standards. They have like two combat animations that get rehashed throughout all episodes. BS:G is a good example of how fans love the concept more than the execution. It has great scifi ideas, a great universe... and fans like it because of that, despite the shitty special effects and acting. Lorne Greene and his black second in command, I don't even know his name, those are the only people actually giving a shit about acting in those.

So, give the man some credit. He pulled off something amazing for its time, that still doesn't look cheesy. And getting the right people to do the job is part of what makes a great producer. Say what you want, GL is a good producer, if not a director. His collaborations with Spielberg have been milestones.

[zenkai]

How come this post hasn't been moved yet?

[Shadowferal]

George Lucas didn't hate Star Wars. But he didn't like Empire Strikes Back...

...and he did say his favorite character was Jar-Jar Binks.

I have to wonder if he's insane.

[Gracin]

I'll admit I have never read any of the books or comics, but I have played several of the now "Legacy" games, and have read up on lore about characters I've heard about. Honestly, what seems to have doomed the all the Legacy content was lack of oversight. It looked like to me that any fan fiction writer who could throw together a 300 page manuscript that was readable, got the approval to release it. And tbh I think this lack of oversight lead to an ridiculously incoherent story line, which hurt the franchise. Everyone who wasn't a die hard fan like the OP admits, couldn't just pick up a book because the lore was so convoluted it was off-putting, and made readers lose interest in the franchise.

Disney made the correct decision on what the cut and what they didn't. From here the can expand upon the brand, and will damn sure keep closer tabs on what is released. The best part is they can use some of these characters/plots that fans enjoyed from the Legacy content, but make them more manageable and useful.

[Jotaux]

I'll admit I have never read any of the books or comics, but I have played several of the now "Legacy" games, and have read up on lore about characters I've heard about. Honestly, what seems to have doomed the all the Legacy content was lack of oversight. It looked like to me that any fan fiction writer who could throw together a 300 page manuscript that was readable, got the approval to release it. And tbh I think this lack of oversight lead to an ridiculously incoherent story line, which hurt the franchise. Everyone who wasn't a die hard fan like the OP admits, couldn't just pick up a book because the lore was so convoluted it was off-putting, and made readers lose interest in the franchise.

Disney made the correct decision on what the cut and what they didn't. From here the can expand upon the brand, and will damn sure keep closer tabs on what is released. The best part is they can use some of these characters/plots that fans enjoyed from the Legacy content, but make them more manageable and useful.

I don't know I read only the Thrawn Trilogy and then later jumped to the Star Wars: Legacy of the Force series and continued from there skipping all of the Vong war stuff and who knows what else.

[Slant]

I'll admit I have never read any of the books or comics,

Do yourself a favour, if you read nothing else, read the Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn. That's as cool as Star Wars gets. It felt like a natural continuation of RotJ.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know I read only the Thrawn Trilogy and then later jumped to the Star Wars: Legacy of the Force series and continued from there skipping all of the Vong war stuff and who knows what else.

Haha, great minds...

[sarahtasher]

The Vong War was not such a bad idea-but 19 books with plotlines decide by comittee, it shows (the characterization was very off from book to book)

[Jotaux]

The Vong War was not such a bad idea-but 19 books with plotlines decide by comittee, it shows (the characterization was very off from book to book)

I noticed that with the Star Wars: Legacy of the Force. There were times where I was like "I hope the next author is so and so and not that other guy, he sucks!"

[Yvaelle]

George Lucas didn't hate Star Wars. But he didn't like Empire Strikes Back...

...and he did say his favorite character was Jar-Jar Binks.

I have to wonder if he's insane.

He also thinks the target audience is kids and pre-teens, he has criticized the original series for being too mature. All in all, he's got some weird views (about everything).

With all that said - I don't think it's the case that he hates SW - but consider that it is something that has overshadowed so much of his career: he wants to be remembered for his other work, THX 1138 and American Graffiti and etc. Nobody will ever remember his other accomplishments - ones that he likely feels are better demonstrations of his artistic capability - because Star Wars will outlive him ten times over.

It's not hatred, but it's a sort of contempt for overshadowing any other merit he had or will have as an artist. From the artists perspective, art is about reshaping yourself, and then portraiting your new self in your art. The enormity of Star Wars has defined him, made him immalleable - we cast him into carbonite for all time, and struggle though he might - he will never be remembered for anything else. By elevating him for his accolades, we also demoted him from 'artist'.

I feel like he doesn't truly get the Star Wars fandom either, he isn't a fan of his own work, in the way that his fans are.

Lastly, Jar-Jar Binks is the key to all this - because he's the true lord of the Sith

[sarahtasher]

Small tidbit. Plot summary from Rogue One Catalyst.

War is tearing the galaxy apart. For years the Republic and the Separatists have battled across the stars, each building more and more deadly technology in an attempt to win the war. As a member of Chancellor Palpatine’s top secret Death Star project, Orson Krennic is determined to develop a superweapon before their enemies can. And an old friend of Krennic’s, the brilliant scientist Galen Erso, could be the key.

Galen’s energy-focused research has captured the attention of both Krennic and his foes, making the scientist a crucial pawn in the galactic conflict. But after Krennic rescues Galen, his wife, Lyra, and their young daughter, Jyn, from Separatist kidnappers, the Erso family is deeply in Krennic’s debt. Krennic then offers Galen an extraordinary opportunity: to continue his scientific studies with every resource put utterly at his disposal. While Galen and Lyra believe that his energy research will be used purely in altruistic ways, Krennic has other plans that will finally make the Death Star a reality. Trapped in their benefactor’s tightening grasp, the Ersos must untangle Krennic’s web of deception to save themselves and the galaxy itself.

(IE, Qwi Xux)

[anyaka21]

What ended it? Simply put, Disney and JJ Abrams. They wanted to be able to do their own thing, and their own story with the baggage or having to strictly adhere to the EU canon.

I didn't like, but realistically, it was probably a needed thing.

I'd also say though that the EU was continuing to become more convoluted with each long story/arc/trek/trilogy/20book vong war/etc... Don't get me wrong here, I still loved the characters, but it really was beginning to feel like they were just dragging it on, and milking Luke for all they could get even though it really started to feel like it was his time to go. I was sad and near tear when Anakin and Mara died/killed because it was more real because it felt like their stories weren't finished, and that way felt more real.

But, yeah, now that there has been distance, it was probably a good thing.

[Fargus]

The X-wing novels were pretty good as well. Them and Zahn's Thrawn stuff, nothing else matters.

[Nefarious Tea]

What doomed the old EU? If Disney used any of it, they'd have to pay royalties to the authors. Scrapping it means they got to hoard all the riches.

[Macaquerie]

He also thinks the target audience is kids and pre-teens, he has criticized the original series for being too mature. All in all, he's got some weird views (about everything).

With all that said - I don't think it's the case that he hates SW - but consider that it is something that has overshadowed so much of his career: he wants to be remembered for his other work, THX 1138 and American Graffiti and etc. Nobody will ever remember his other accomplishments - ones that he likely feels are better demonstrations of his artistic capability - because Star Wars will outlive him ten times over.

It's not hatred, but it's a sort of contempt for overshadowing any other merit he had or will have as an artist. From the artists perspective, art is about reshaping yourself, and then portraiting your new self in your art. The enormity of Star Wars has defined him, made him immalleable - we cast him into carbonite for all time, and struggle though he might - he will never be remembered for anything else. By elevating him for his accolades, we also demoted him from 'artist'.

I feel like he doesn't truly get the Star Wars fandom either, he isn't a fan of his own work, in the way that his fans are.

Lastly, Jar-Jar Binks is the key to all this - because he's the true lord of the Sith

It's kind of hard to sympathize with people who are always complaining about being defined by a single piece of work, because they always come off as ingrates for not realizing how extraordinarily lucky they have to even hit it big once. I guess Lucas just saw Star Wars as a dumb kids movie he could make to pay the bills so that he could turn around and make the kind of films he really liked, but it's his own goddamn fault for never getting around to that part.

[Yvaelle]

It's kind of hard to sympathize with people who are always complaining about being defined by a single piece of work, because they always come off as ingrates for not realizing how extraordinarily lucky they have to even hit it big once. I guess Lucas just saw Star Wars as a dumb kids movie he could make to pay the bills so that he could turn around and make the kind of films he really liked, but it's his own goddamn fault for never getting around to that part.

I suspect when he was making Star Wars, it wasn't like that at all - it was a fun space opera that he wanted to make - he brought on a lot of talent, they put in a lot of effort - and made a beautiful movie. His resentment toward it likely only started to grow after he realized just how big the original trilogy would become, and how he would never escape being a fixture of star wars, rather than the other way around.

He was lucky to have such a big hit, but he was already a very capable director and writer before Star Wars - for people who regard themselves as artists - that's probably the height of fame they seek: the ability to make anything they want (which he had before star wars). So on the one hand I agree, it seems ungrateful to cast aside his most famous and beloved work - but if he wants to be able to grow beyond it - he has to put it aside.