Got Killed By A Monk, So I Rolled One!

[Krusza]

DK / WW wasn't 'relevant'?

Like most people here, he probably gets his idea of PvP balance from random BGs.

[Biowned]

WW has been the best and most dominant melee in the beta for a while. Dafuq you guys saying about it not being strong. As a Monk player myself, I'm expecting a nerf.

[Super Kami Dende]

DK / WW wasn't 'relevant'?

If they only work with 1 specific combination, no, they aren't relevant and are niche.

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Like most people here, he probably gets his idea of PvP balance from random BGs.

A feral talking about PvP balance, oh my

[JoshuaNLG]

WW is good but far from a top melee. I'd put it at 4th spot under rogue > demon hunter > feral. Note how all 4 top melees are leather-wearers with insane mobility -- I count stealth as mobility!

Meanwhile survival, warrior and DK are the laughing stock of PvP world because they can't get close to anything, they die in seconds, their healing is terrible, AND they do less damage than the leathers.

I guarantee you that you only put DH in that spot because of Meta, outside of meta they're shit. Even inside it they're easy to shutdown.

[Deleted]

Fake casting should be more rewarding in general. If you miss your interrupt it should be put on double the original cooldown for melee and x1.5 for casters.

[Cempa]

WW has been the best and most dominant melee in the beta for a while. Dafuq you guys saying about it not being strong. As a Monk player myself, I'm expecting a nerf.

What about casual PvP as in random BG's and solo PvP server questing?

[Krusza]

If they only work with 1 specific combination, no, they aren't relevant and are niche.

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A feral talking about PvP balance, oh my

Exactly my point, you're judging off of BGs and duels, otherwise you wouldn't be calling Feral OP.

Even if it was, why does that affect what I say? I don't know anything about PvP because you seem to think my spec is OP? Alright then.

[Deleted]

Sub rogue and WW monk are the top 2 melees, you guys who put feral and DH above... really? Lmao

[BannedForViews]

Your point is? read my post again, do I mention skill in fake casting anywhere? please refrain from throwing random shit at people .

Saying fake casting should be done to avoid being interrupted does not mean I'm talking about fake casting and skill, and fake casting 2 melee on u is something any decent caster can do, unless kickbots are in play.

"just fake cast so neither you nor your healer can get interrupted." from your original post and bold above. You clearly think that fake casting is no big deal. That it is somehow easy to force others to use an interrupt and not only guess when they are going to us it during your cast so that they waste it, but beat any latency issues (even with 70 ping I frequently get "interrupted" after I have already cancelled my fake cast). Kicking is mind numbingly easy. you hit a button that isn't on the global and will go off right away, when dealing with a 1.5 second or longer window. It might as well be 10 seconds because it isn't close enough to a humans reaction time to separate slow from fast. Fake casting on the other hand is more guessing than anything. You may catch bads by just throwing it out there but you can't know, you can only hope, and when you are dealing with these shorter interrupt times, 3 seconds in most cases, the amount of time wasted by fake casting moving and recasting, or double fake casting if necessary, might as well have just been used eating the interrupt.

it is also hilarious that you didn't even go with 1 melee, but jumped to fake casting 2, like it's a scripted PvE encounter where you are guaranteed that not only will both kick at the exact same time but that they will do so after you've already cancelled so you won't actually eat the interrupt. Nice try bud.

[wholol]

"just fake cast so neither you nor your healer can get interrupted." from your original post and bold above. You clearly think that fake casting is no big deal. That it is somehow easy to force others to use an interrupt and not only guess when they are going to us it during your cast so that they waste it, but beat any latency issues (even with 70 ping I frequently get "interrupted" after I have already cancelled my fake cast). Kicking is mind numbingly easy. you hit a button that isn't on the global and will go off right away, when dealing with a 1.5 second or longer window. It might as well be 10 seconds because it isn't close enough to a humans reaction time to separate slow from fast. Fake casting on the other hand is more guessing than anything. You may catch bads by just throwing it out there but you can't know, you can only hope, and when you are dealing with these shorter interrupt times, 3 seconds in most cases, the amount of time wasted by fake casting moving and recasting, or double fake casting if necessary, might as well have just been used eating the interrupt.

it is also hilarious that you didn't even go with 1 melee, but jumped to fake casting 2, like it's a scripted PvE encounter where you are guaranteed that not only will both kick at the exact same time but that they will do so after you've already cancelled so you won't actually eat the interrupt. Nice try bud.

There are points where, after a certain rating you will find casters generally are able to fake cast 2 melee interrupts ,on high end pvp level some healers more than casters I'd say, but both healers and casters nonetheless.

Don't get me wrong, it is perfectly fine to struggle with interrupts as that is the point of an interrupt's existence and over the years the importance of fake casting has become less and less relevant at lower ratings and when kickbots are involved.

Thought I must say assuming others are unable to fake cast 1-2 melee simply because you find it hard on your level does not make mean they are few and rare.

All I'm trying to say is that there is a way to beat a WW monk ... I simply stated how, if a person is able/unable to do it is entirely up to them.

[BannedForViews]

There are points where, after a certain rating you will find casters generally are able to fake cast 2 melee interrupts ,on high end pvp level some healers more than casters I'd say, but both healers and casters nonetheless.

Don't get me wrong, it is perfectly fine to struggle with interrupts as that is the point of an interrupt's existence and over the years the importance of fake casting has become less and less relevant at lower ratings and when kickbots are involved.

Thought I must say assuming others are unable to fake cast 1-2 melee simply because you find it hard on your level does not make mean they are few and rare.

All I'm trying to say is that there is a way to beat a WW monk ... I simply stated how, if a person is able/unable to do it is entirely up to them.

I have gotten gladiator multiple times. I am well aware of what fake casting is and how to do it, and when you will find it most. The fact stands that it is still very difficult and by no means a guarantee, where as kicking is extremely easy. You just tap a button the moment you see a cast start. Fake casters still get hit through all the time they waste fake casting, and they also allow other things to come off cooldown, like stuns, gouges, etc. They allow mage/priest/warlock to get into range to fear, or allow other teammates CS to come off cooldown (shaman can shear). My argument has never been about how hard I find fake casting, or my skill cap. My argument is about the relative skill caps of two competing actions; kicking and fake casting. It is just fact that it is significantly more simple to kick, while continuing to pump out full damage, than it is to fake cast, while eating damage and not doing anything.

I don't care who you are. If you want to stand there and try and fake cast me 100 times and see how many times I actually waste my kick as opposed to interrupting you, I'm gonna kick you a hell of a lot more frequently than you are going to fake me, and it will have very little to do with how amazingly fast I am at kicking you. This completely ignores all the times when you can't even risk fake casting because you or your teammate are too low and might die anyway.

[wholol]

I have gotten gladiator multiple times. I am well aware of what fake casting is and how to do it, and when you will find it most. The fact stands that it is still very difficult and by no means a guarantee, where as kicking is extremely easy. You just tap a button the moment you see a cast start. Fake casters still get hit through all the time they waste fake casting, and they also allow other things to come off cooldown, like stuns, gouges, etc. They allow mage/priest/warlock to get into range to fear, or allow other teammates CS to come off cooldown (shaman can shear). My argument has never been about how hard I find fake casting, or my skill cap. My argument is about the relative skill caps of two competing actions; kicking and fake casting. It is just fact that it is significantly more simple to kick, while continuing to pump out full damage, than it is to fake cast, while eating damage and not doing anything.

I don't care who you are. If you want to stand there and try and fake cast me 100 times and see how many times I actually waste my kick as opposed to interrupting you, I'm gonna kick you a hell of a lot more frequently than you are going to fake me, and it will have very little to do with how amazingly fast I am at kicking you. This completely ignores all the times when you can't even risk fake casting because you or your teammate are too low and might die anyway.

You aren't the only multi-glad/R1 on these forums you know friend?

But I guess I do see your point, kicks are easier to land but why are we talking about which is easier kicks vs fake casting ? that's not even what we're originally talking about.

In a duel you can still try to fake cast, each person kicks are their own pace and rarely alters that pattern, you can start with a standard mid cast fake and see how they react, if they are fast kickers we can shorten the fake casts and most of the time they will miss a lot of kicks, vice versa applies some people wait until 70-85% of the cast ( due to latency it is hard to stop a 85-90% cast ) but can still fake around 75% and bait the kick.

I do agree that pressing interrupts is much easier if that was your point but I somewhat get the vibe that you're trying to say something else ?

[Tart]

Dont know if he was bad but i absolutely butchered one on my SV hunter.

[BannedForViews]

You aren't the only multi-glad/R1 on these forums you know friend?

But I guess I do see your point, kicks are easier to land but why are we talking about which is easier kicks vs fake casting ? that's not even what we're originally talking about.

In a duel you can still try to fake cast, each person kicks are their own pace and rarely alters that pattern, you can start with a standard mid cast fake and see how they react, if they are fast kickers we can shorten the fake casts and most of the time they will miss a lot of kicks, vice versa applies some people wait until 70-85% of the cast ( due to latency it is hard to stop a 85-90% cast ) but can still fake around 75% and bait the kick.

I do agree that pressing interrupts is much easier if that was your point but I somewhat get the vibe that you're trying to say something else ?

The OP was lamenting how much easier it feels on his WW as opposed to his lock. I was commenting how as long as this has been a game, interrupting casts has been significantly easier than getting a cast off when someone is hitting you. Back in TBC there was no cap on pushback. For a while there was no diminishing returns either. Now days it is a lot better, but it is still way too easy to interrupt as opposed to actually getting the cast off. When I used to PvP in Guild wars for example, most casts were .75 to 1 second. It took a lot more reaction time and even anticipation to kick. In WoW it is almost an afterthought. "oh, he is almost done casting, better kick it now.zzzzzz".

[nocendi]

Actually, this stuff needs normalization badly.

Why? Why does it all have to be the same?

[Charge me Doctor]

The OP was lamenting how much easier it feels on his WW as opposed to his lock. I was commenting how as long as this has been a game, interrupting casts has been significantly easier than getting a cast off when someone is hitting you. Back in TBC there was no cap on pushback. For a while there was no diminishing returns either. Now days it is a lot better, but it is still way too easy to interrupt as opposed to actually getting the cast off. When I used to PvP in Guild wars for example, most casts were .75 to 1 second. It took a lot more reaction time and even anticipation to kick. In WoW it is almost an afterthought. "oh, he is almost done casting, better kick it now.zzzzzz".

It's double edged sword, it's always one or another which will be "easier". In case of GW - it's easier for caster, in case of WoW - it's easier for interrupter

[BannedForViews]

It's double edged sword, it's always one or another which will be "easier". In case of GW - it's easier for caster, in case of WoW - it's easier for interrupter

That is true, you had less worry of interrupt, but they balanced in different ways. Mana was a much more valuable resource and people could easily blow their wad if they weren't careful and managed it properly. I'm not suggesting it be that way, I'm just saying it'd be nice if they could adopt a method that would bridge the gap a bit.

For example, if interrupts were on a longer cooldown but did a fair amount of damage if you actually did interrupt the skill. If interrupts were on the GCD (this would also take care of kickbots). If more classes and specs had access to the new pvp talents were you gain immunity after being interrupted, so as to prevent chain kicking, which while good team coordination, strongly proves my point about how different the skill caps are. making mana a scarcer resource could help balance out a shift in "ease" gained by casters through protecting them more from interrupts.

[Noocta]

Why? Why does it all have to be the same?

There's really no reason why it's like that. When you look at the whole thing, its not because of flavor, and certainly not because of balance. Rogues has the most stuns and ways to prevent spellcasting on them, why do they have the longest Kick as well ?

[Northy]

WW pretty unstoppable. Working as intended.

[Saverem]

my friend the heal has x2 charges .. so 30% every 30sec

Simple maths is hard.

It's 30s PER CHARGE, each CHARGE is 30s. The second charge only starts counting down AFTER the first charge is refreshed, so:

30s + 30s = ???



If you think WWs are strong in PvP. Try out UDK and enjoy being immortal while 3 shotting everyone.