Vengeance Tuning done?

[Varlak]

The words on beta is they are mid pack right behind DK with Bear beeing OP and both prot spect beeing really strong so I guess we will see some tweaking.

[Vakna]

I get that and I run last resort when I am pugging. But in a solid group, the general expectation is that I am not gonna die. It still happens sure, and when we are learning something I run last resort as well. There are two reasons I like soul barrier when I have a group I trust. First is it allows me to pull faster. The biggest oh shit moment I face on a regular basis is pulling AoE packs. So I like to use this shield on the last mob of a pull when I have built up some soul fragments. Then I jump into the next group. I only need about 2-3 seconds of the shield till I can get pain enough to start pushing my mitigation buttons. In other words I can somewhat safely keep my pace up with it since it's cooldown is so short. Also I have found that it helps in situations where incoming damage spikes. Like tank switching. I can build up a shield for when damage spikes come in. I find it incredibly good.

When you start regularly running high end Mythic+ with some of those butt clenching tank buster affixes, or raiding in general, you'll never have that expectation that you wont die.

[Hexxidecimal]

When you start regularly running high end Mythic+ with some of those butt clenching tank buster affixes, or raiding in general, you'll never have that expectation that you wont die.

Ahhh, fair enough. Haven't gotten there yet.

[Simulacrum]

...

I'm literally clearing regular heroics and some regular mythics without a healer atm, and that's without a tier set, raid trinkets or the best possible gear. So you tell me again why Vengeance is an underwhelming spec?

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying vengeance is an underwhelming spec. I think it's strong right now, on live. It's not strong enough to do moderately difficult content completely without a healer, but the panic buttons we get from 100 to 110 allow us to effectively do that by cycling through them much like how the old blood DKs did (which is largely why I'm going with veng for legion, instead of blood). But the gameplay is still the same.

[javen]

Overall I feel pretty good about where Vengeance is right now. We'll likely have spots where we excel (damage) and areas where we don't (Mythic+ will probably feel a bit worse than raids), but that's kind of what it should be, and we're never so weak in a particular area where it's any particular hindrance.