[Guardian] 7.2.5 Legion Guardian Guide by Pumps

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Is there any reason whatsoever to use the WoD +100 secondary stat and 2% MS cloak enchants or is the +200 Agility enchant much better in every scenario?

Asking this because I got a 885 cloak that I would like to use for Resto/Guardian but the +200 Agi would be complete waste whenever I switch to Resto and I don't really feel like buying 7k enchant every single time I switch my spec. I play both specs quite often; Resto for all raids and Guardian for Mythic + and questing.

If you're swapping regularly then I can imagine using the secondary stat one yes. Technically it's better for survival on guardian anyways.

[Deleted]

If you're swapping regularly then I can imagine using the secondary stat one yes. Technically it's better for survival on guardian anyways.

Yeah, that is what I thought. Still I would like it if they added some new enchants that are compatible for multiple specs because the current choices are very limited and actually work against their flexible item design in a way.

[Orandyn]

Really appreciate the log feedback, everyone. I will be relaying that information in a coachable way to our tank, and now I have things to monitor and correct him on. You guys rock!

[Hellshout]

So this is what happened. I was testing some macros bla bla and I was away from the target dummy and just spamming the macro that has Swipe in it. I NEVER touched the circled dummy with swipe and BAM, a GG on it. I tried 2 more times, away from it and it got GG.

[Aswadd]

I have a question on GG. Did the buff affect only the proc? or the spell itself? And if it's only the proc, do we still use swipe as a filler?

Like many who posted above, I am having threat challenges with my paladin co-tank. Not only is his snap agro immensly higher than mine, but I am being forced to taunt my target just to keep him from stealing agro from me. Admittedly, his gear and trinkets are better than mine, but the amount of focus i need to keep on agro management is ridiculous. I don't remember having such issues since TBC.

Also, I fully understand that agility is a shitty defensive stats, and that tanks are supposed to focus on survivability. However, is there a priority for offensive stats (as opposed to the known priority for defensive stats of versatility > mastery> crit=haste > agility)? I only ask this as a means to improve my threat generation until Blizzard wakes up and does something about this.

[Ausr]

I have a question on GG. Did the buff affect only the proc? or the spell itself? And if it's only the proc, do we still use swipe as a filler?

Like many who posted above, I am having threat challenges with my paladin co-tank. Not only is his snap agro immensly higher than mine, but I am being forced to taunt my target just to keep him from stealing agro from me. Admittedly, his gear and trinkets are better than mine, but the amount of focus i need to keep on agro management is ridiculous. I don't remember having such issues since TBC.

Also, I fully understand that agility is a shitty defensive stats, and that tanks are supposed to focus on survivability. However, is there a priority for offensive stats (as opposed to the known priority for defensive stats of versatility > mastery> crit=haste > agility)? I only ask this as a means to improve my threat generation until Blizzard wakes up and does something about this.

Never had problems with threat till pre-patch Legion. Just want them to do something, even if it's as minor as threat on Guardian moonfire.

[Nevcairiel]

I have a question on GG. Did the buff affect only the proc? or the spell itself? And if it's only the proc, do we still use swipe as a filler?

Only the proc was buffed. Use MF when GG procs, otherwise keep using Swipe filler.

[Deleted]

@Ausr: What makes you think there is no threat on guardian moonfire? I see this claim pretty often and I would really like to know how people came to this conclusion.
@Aswadd: I think the dps stat prio is: versa>crit>haste>mastery. If you are not using thrash relics (which you should for dps anyway), maybe versa>haste>crit>mastery, since catweaving (which hurts your threat) and the dot component of Thrash are the only parts of your damage that aren't increased by Haste.

Also: Only the Moonfires that generate threat have increased damage. If you don't have the proc up, use swipe.

[Nevcairiel]

@Ausr: What makes you think there is no threat on guardian moonfire? I see this claim pretty often and I would really like to know how people came to this conclusion.

The initial hit seems to do no or very little threat, even with a GG proc (or maybe especially then?).
I have frequently tried to grab mobs by Moonfiring them, which usually results in the initial hit doing nothing, and once it ticked once they start paying more attention to me.

A GG MF does a lot of damage, so one would assume it also does a fair amount of threat, but in my experience it can easily be observed in game that this is not the case.

Considering MF is like 25% of our damage (as silly as that is by itself), it doing little to no threat might account for the discrepancy we're feeling.

Could probably install a more thorough threat monitoring addon and get to the bottom of how much threat it really does.

[Nyri Nyri Nyri]

Hey guys,
i have some trinkets and i don't now exactly which ones are the best choice for mythic 10+ and for EN mythic/ToV hc
i have Etheral Urn (875), Goblet of Nightmarish Ichor (865 with socket), Gift of Radiance (880), Shard of Rokmora (875), Coagulated Nightwell Residue (870) and the Darkmoon Deck
and how would it change if i get Inescapable Dread or Majordomo's Dinner Bell?
thanks for your help and sry for bad english

[Soulwell]

@Ausr: What makes you think there is no threat on guardian moonfire? I see this claim pretty often and I would really like to know how people came to this conclusion.
@Aswadd: I think the dps stat prio is: versa>crit>haste>mastery. If you are not using thrash relics (which you should for dps anyway), maybe versa>haste>crit>mastery, since catweaving (which hurts your threat) and the dot component of Thrash are the only parts of your damage that aren't increased by Haste.

Also: Only the Moonfires that generate threat have increased damage. If you don't have the proc up, use swipe.

Idk if you tank with shit tanks or what but guardian threat is really shit, just because you moonfire something and it comes to you doesn't mean it generates the threat as say a bloodboil/judgment would. It simply generates the normal threat as if I was in balance not guardian. The only class I've had not rip agro from me was a dh/brm

[Dreyen]

moonfire has trash direct damage, it's most likely the reason of the "moonfire threat" problem. GG proc moonfires are solid however.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

moonfire has trash direct damage, it's most likely the reason of the "moonfire threat" problem. GG proc moonfires are solid however.

There's a bigger problem in there somewhere. We killed heroic hellya this week again, and this time our Blood dk went for dps talents (because farm). I still did about 50k more dps but regularly had the issue of him getting targeted by tank abilities because he was above my threat lvl (even though I still had aggro at that point).

At first I thought it was moonfire and the gg change would fix it. But I'm still seeing the same issues pop up. At my gear lvl it's not overaggroing. merely just going over my threat (101-105%), but below the aggro limit.

[Dreyen]

Pretty sure the issue was always healing aggro. Some heal spells do not have the "no threat" modifier that traditional healing spells have, just like frenzied regen.

FR has the Flag "generates no threat" http://www.wowhead.com/spell=22842/f...d-regeneration
Paladin heal does not have it: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=184092/...-the-protector

Can't figure out the spell name that results in the deathstrike heal however... boneshield absorb does not generate threat at least.

Also I have trouble thinking you have threat issues while doing 50k more dps though... was that 50k more dps on one target only at that exact moment?

[Arlee]

There's a bigger problem in there somewhere. We killed heroic hellya this week again, and this time our Blood dk went for dps talents (because farm). I still did about 50k more dps but regularly had the issue of him getting targeted by tank abilities because he was above my threat lvl (even though I still had aggro at that point).

At first I thought it was moonfire and the gg change would fix it. But I'm still seeing the same issues pop up. At my gear lvl it's not overaggroing. merely just going over my threat (101-105%), but below the aggro limit.

Oooh, I think that explains the issue we've been having on Nythandra the last few weeks. After she gets back up from her sleeping on the ground thing she'll put the violtile rot on our DK tank even though she is very obviously still on me. Been annoying the crap out of me because we couldn't quite figure out what was happening there. Been a few other similar things on other bosses, Nythandra is just the one where it is an issue consistently.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Oooh, I think that explains the issue we've been having on Nythandra the last few weeks. After she gets back up from her sleeping on the ground thing she'll put the violtile rot on our DK tank even though she is very obviously still on me. Been annoying the crap out of me because we couldn't quite figure out what was happening there. Been a few other similar things on other bosses, Nythandra is just the one where it is an issue consistently.

Ye, lots of boss abilities look at threat table, not actual aggro.
You'll only pull aggro at 110% threat. But threat table abilities will hit you from 100-110% regardless of threat.
Only reason I still have omen. So I can see who is in that 10% window.

[Deleted]

I would really like to have an extended combat log, that tracks the threat tables of the mobs in the fight, but well, will need to figure this out some other way. The only fight I currently pay much attention to, is Cenarius, where I have to tank drakes (fml). When the second drake spawns, I just moonfire him and he turns around instantly. The other point is, that no one does any damage to that thing anyway, so I only have half a second of healing threat to compete with, so I am not even sure if I need a threat multiplier for that to happen.

@Dreyen: That LOTP generates threat when FR doesn't is a fucking joke, but explains why I see so many complaint from people tanking with pallies. Death strike doesn't generate either according to this.

[Dreyen]

yea Greif9, deathstrike on wowhead doesnt say no threat because its probably not in the tooltip for the spell itself since it does damage, it could not generate threat though: i believe heal-generating threat spells are new legion spells.

Ignore pain generates no threat either. I've seen my warrior co-tank rip threat off me easily with ignore pain only when im trying to pull something with moonfire only.

[Deleted]

You can find 2 "Death Strike" spells on wowhead, one being a damage spell, one being a heal and the heal is flagged as no threat.

I find no flag on IP, even though I have read somewhere that this was fixed recently.

[Bearygood]

So how does one Catweave? Want to do maximum dps when I offtank