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  1. #1741
    Quote Originally Posted by razisgosu View Post
    Icy-veins finally updated their bear guide for ToS and they have listed for purely survival that Ekowraith and Soul of the Archdruid is the best from a survival standpoint. I have to question the ring though, I realize it's additional rage gain, which results in more ironfur and frenzied regeneration, but vs say Elize or Magnum Opus, does it really provide a stronger benefit?

    I checked through my own logs and based on my mangles on an average fight, I would gain about 4-6 extra ironfur uses in a fight, which would theoretically amount to 40-60 extra seconds of extra ironfur uptime based on 10 seconds per use.

    I've been considering taking pulverize recently too thinking the true gain is only 1% vs Elize's and have been wondering what to swap out in their place. Magnum Opus was my initial thought but then I read Icy-veins recommended legendaries.

    Thoughts?
    This has come up a lot recently and I'm going to reiterate my statements from a few weeks back.
    Elizes is not a survival increase. A defensive legendary + pulverize is more defense than elize + R&T.
    The biggest winner is always chest, the damage taken bonus goes beyond any other legendary.
    After that comes the ring for pure single target melee heavy fights. This is almost no really challenging fight in Tomb.
    Goroth doesnt kill you with autoattacks, he kills you with meteor/star damage when you have the debuff.
    Harjatan comes closest with his physical damage dot. But there's still the draw in frost damage to consider.
    You can say something for every fight.
    Maiden is straightforward, Avatar too. Kiljaeden is the only guy who will kill you with physical damage, but the real damage lies in fel claws which you use Bristling fur and/or cooldowns for. The extra mangle rage from ironfur won't really be a lifesaver, just a mana saver for your healers.
    If the ring doesn't gain full value (a patchwerk/kiljaeden like fight), next in line are our heal/absorb legendaries.
    Prydaz vs Skysec vs Archimonde's.
    Prydaz and Skysec are competitive in HPS. If you are taking shitloads of damage skysec can heal for a lot when you want it to. Prydaz gives you an absorb you can't control. The absorb might be wasted half the time. But sometimes you don't really want control, just the absorb that increases your EH.
    Archimonde's doesn't do near the HPS the two others do, but it gives you control (like skysecs) over an absorb.
    If the control (skysecs) is what you need, but you won't survive the hit with your current HP pool (and thus can't heal it back up with skysec) Archimonde's is your go to. Then again, you could use the stamina/absorb trinket from TOS or Guldan in that case and still use skysec/prydaz.

  2. #1742
    About DPS Trinket what are best for that? Because i like to replace my horn of valor 890.

  3. #1743
    Quote Originally Posted by CenariusTheForestLord View Post
    This has come up a lot recently and I'm going to reiterate my statements from a few weeks back.
    Elizes is not a survival increase. A defensive legendary + pulverize is more defense than elize + R&T.
    The biggest winner is always chest, the damage taken bonus goes beyond any other legendary.
    After that comes the ring for pure single target melee heavy fights. This is almost no really challenging fight in Tomb.
    Goroth doesnt kill you with autoattacks, he kills you with meteor/star damage when you have the debuff.
    Harjatan comes closest with his physical damage dot. But there's still the draw in frost damage to consider.
    You can say something for every fight.
    Maiden is straightforward, Avatar too. Kiljaeden is the only guy who will kill you with physical damage, but the real damage lies in fel claws which you use Bristling fur and/or cooldowns for. The extra mangle rage from ironfur won't really be a lifesaver, just a mana saver for your healers.
    If the ring doesn't gain full value (a patchwerk/kiljaeden like fight), next in line are our heal/absorb legendaries.
    Prydaz vs Skysec vs Archimonde's.
    Prydaz and Skysec are competitive in HPS. If you are taking shitloads of damage skysec can heal for a lot when you want it to. Prydaz gives you an absorb you can't control. The absorb might be wasted half the time. But sometimes you don't really want control, just the absorb that increases your EH.
    Archimonde's doesn't do near the HPS the two others do, but it gives you control (like skysecs) over an absorb.
    If the control (skysecs) is what you need, but you won't survive the hit with your current HP pool (and thus can't heal it back up with skysec) Archimonde's is your go to. Then again, you could use the stamina/absorb trinket from TOS or Guldan in that case and still use skysec/prydaz.
    Just a short caveat that might be a little beside the point: Since the most important part of damage on Harjatan is the dot, and that is bleed, it circumvents armor and makes rage pretty meaningless.
    Monk/Main,Druid/Alt, Logs. Meine Gilde rekrutiert. Bei Interesse kontaktiert mich hier, unsere Offiziere in Game oder bewerbt euch direkt auf unserer Website.

  4. #1744
    Quote Originally Posted by davidrm15 View Post
    About DPS Trinket what are best for that? Because i like to replace my horn of valor 890.
    Basically anything agi + x at high ilvl. And the melee dps trinket from sisters for aoe.

  5. #1745
    Quote Originally Posted by Greif9 View Post
    Just a short caveat that might be a little beside the point: Since the most important part of damage on Harjatan is the dot, and that is bleed, it circumvents armor and makes rage pretty meaningless.
    The dot is not a bleed. It's a physical damage dot. It counts armor.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by davidrm15 View Post
    About DPS Trinket what are best for that? Because i like to replace my horn of valor 890.
    Horn of valor is really good with Incarn and farm bosses. I even delay the 2 min cd to 3 min for incarn.
    The Umbral Moonglaives are OP on AOE, and as good as most on ST.
    The Deteriorated Construct core is really good for AOE (and same as oonglaives on ST) but it's not as good as moonglaives because it doesn't synergise well with our CDs.
    Tirathons betrayal is another good option, probably 2 or 3 on the list for ST.
    Terrorbound nexus is still a strong option for AOE (though not as good as moonglaives).
    Both legendary trinkets are good as well, and agi stat sticks are never bad.
    That's about it. Oh and Chaos Talisman for fights where you keep it up 100%.

  6. #1746
    Bloodsail Admiral Cannibalus's Avatar
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    Question: why is the Darkmoon Faire armor trinket supposed BiS defensively? I don't see much of an improvements for bears... maybe my math is wrong.

    PLEASE ENLIGHTEN MEEE! My guild leaders have been foaming at me in order to get one of these shayt trinkets.
    Last edited by Cannibalus; 2017-07-16 at 10:46 PM.
    Face your Demons, befriend them, listen to their needs and feed them regularly in times when you and your closest ones get afflicted the least. No one likes a hungry demon on the loose.

  7. #1747
    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibalus View Post
    Question: why is the Darkmoon Faire armor trinket supposed BiS defensively? I don't see much of an improvements for bears... maybe my math is wrong.

    PLEASE ENLIGHTEN MEEE! My guild leaders have been foaming at me in order to get one of these shayt trinkets.
    It always gives armor. That's about it. It's not a proc, it's always there at least 900, sometimes 2900.
    And armor is just worth way more than any other stat defensively, (even if it doesn't add to ironfur anymore).

  8. #1748
    Quote Originally Posted by CenariusTheForestLord View Post
    The dot is not a bleed. It's a physical damage dot. It counts armor.
    Looking at it more closely you are right. The wording of the ability is weird then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibalus View Post
    Question: why is the Darkmoon Faire armor trinket supposed BiS defensively? I don't see much of an improvements for bears... maybe my math is wrong.

    PLEASE ENLIGHTEN MEEE! My guild leaders have been foaming at me in order to get one of these shayt trinkets.
    Pretty much what Cenarius said. But the other thing is, that there just isn't much competition. Defensive trinkets have sucked this expansion pretty badly and having a trinket like DM:I that just gives you a small overall damage reduction is better than having a trinket that does nothing on the majority of the fights or provides you with a minimal HPS from shields. The "good" defensive trinkets, like Infernal Contract (Gul'dan one) and Archimondes are situationally useful, but there are very few fights where DM:I has no benefit.

    The only other trinkets you can say that about are the Writhing heart of darkness (from DHT) if you can get one with good ilvl or the trinket from Goroth.
    Monk/Main,Druid/Alt, Logs. Meine Gilde rekrutiert. Bei Interesse kontaktiert mich hier, unsere Offiziere in Game oder bewerbt euch direkt auf unserer Website.

  9. #1749
    Quote Originally Posted by Greif9 View Post
    Pretty much what Cenarius said. But the other thing is, that there just isn't much competition. Defensive trinkets have sucked this expansion pretty badly and having a trinket like DM:I that just gives you a small overall damage reduction is better than having a trinket that does nothing on the majority of the fights or provides you with a minimal HPS from shields. The "good" defensive trinkets, like Infernal Contract (Gul'dan one) and Archimondes are situationally useful, but there are very few fights where DM:I has no benefit.

    The only other trinkets you can say that about are the Writhing heart of darkness (from DHT) if you can get one with good ilvl or the trinket from Goroth.
    Don't forget the Xavius trinket. It's worth 5-10 more ilvls than writhing heart.

  10. #1750
    Quote Originally Posted by CenariusTheForestLord View Post
    Don't forget the Xavius trinket. It's worth 5-10 more ilvls than writhing heart.
    Yeah, but only on single target, while the DHT one works pretty good on multiple and M Xavius is 30 ilvl behind M+15 DHT. While everything is possible with TF bullshit I don't really want to go back into EN.
    Monk/Main,Druid/Alt, Logs. Meine Gilde rekrutiert. Bei Interesse kontaktiert mich hier, unsere Offiziere in Game oder bewerbt euch direkt auf unserer Website.

  11. #1751
    WHOD and DM:I are just good baseline defensive trinkets. On-use trinkets can serve some purpose if there is huge damage spikes you need to cover beyond what our class cooldowns offer, although even then Infernal Contract is even more situational then most due to the negative effect.

    I definitely prefer WHOD over the Xavius trinket, because Xavius entirely breaks down as soon as there is a even a second enemy, while WHOD remains strong on your primary target, while also applying some of its value to all secondary targets as well. (not to mention that farming Xavius is annoying, and I'm happy to have a decent WHOD - also, I don't feel as bad getting crit on gear again =p)

    I got the Reliquary from Desolate Host the other night to fill that situational "on use" spot for me, or just use the Legendary trinket, which has a nice low cooldown.
    Last edited by Nevcairiel; 2017-07-17 at 09:18 AM.

  12. #1752
    Quote Originally Posted by Greif9 View Post
    Looking at it more closely you are right. The wording of the ability is weird then.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Pretty much what Cenarius said. But the other thing is, that there just isn't much competition. Defensive trinkets have sucked this expansion pretty badly and having a trinket like DM:I that just gives you a small overall damage reduction is better than having a trinket that does nothing on the majority of the fights or provides you with a minimal HPS from shields. The "good" defensive trinkets, like Infernal Contract (Gul'dan one) and Archimondes are situationally useful, but there are very few fights where DM:I has no benefit.

    The only other trinkets you can say that about are the Writhing heart of darkness (from DHT) if you can get one with good ilvl or the trinket from Goroth.
    thankfully, there are a couple interesting tank trinkets in Argus. hopefully they dont get destroyed before they go live

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=151977/d...onus=3610:1467

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=151978/t...onus=3610:1467

  13. #1753
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    thankfully, there are a couple interesting tank trinkets in Argus. hopefully they dont get destroyed before they go live

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=151977/d...onus=3610:1467

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=151978/t...onus=3610:1467
    I like Essence of F'harg and Essence of Shatug. 2 versions of one trinket where you can swap between armor and versa. And for second tank with trinket you have 20% bonus to stats on trinket.
    Jurman - Guardian Druid <Embody>

  14. #1754
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    thankfully, there are a couple interesting tank trinkets in Argus. hopefully they dont get destroyed before they go live

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=151977/d...onus=3610:1467

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=151978/t...onus=3610:1467
    Armor on use? What? A damage reduction that is not tied to a shield that we can control? What kind of sorcery is this?

    And I like the idea of a very powerful short duration shield as well, if the fights have mechanics that allow you to make good use of them. Also I like that the shield comes with a downside. Having to think about it a bit is really nice.

    On the other hand I had really high hopes for the KJ tank trinket and it just turned out to be an answer in search of a question for most classes. So we will see once the fights are out.
    Monk/Main,Druid/Alt, Logs. Meine Gilde rekrutiert. Bei Interesse kontaktiert mich hier, unsere Offiziere in Game oder bewerbt euch direkt auf unserer Website.

  15. #1755
    New T21 4P looks more promising than the maul thing. Both bonuses are now working around Barkskin which is nice.
    Basically adds some extra mastery to the dropoff point from Barkskin.

  16. #1756
    Both 2p and 4p look incredibly lackluster. Hate that they're tying everything to barkskin

  17. #1757
    Code:
    Event		Time passed		%		Time bonus	
    NoGore		6			51.2		0	
    Gore after 3	6			12.8		0.5	
    Gore after 2	4.5			16		0.5	
    Gore after 1	3			20		0.5	
    				
    Time passed	5.16
    Time recharged	5.404
    Bonus time %	104.73
    Based on no haste, and always casting Mangle as soon as you can with only Gore abilities inbetween. In reality, it'll be slightly worse as, even with usage on CD, you will overcap the cooldown my small amounts if you proc gore just before the cooldown is up.
    More haste would make it more significant, but it seems pretty poor, giving less than 5% faster cooldown.
    Last edited by Yxiomel; 2017-07-19 at 01:05 AM. Reason: Reformated % column to actually be a % and not a decimal...
    TalentSwitch: Automatically swaps talents on your actionbars when you change talents, and updates your macros to match. Save your favourite talent builds. (Updated for 7.0)
    BreweRyge: Adds a resource meter for Brewmaster brews, as if they were on a rage- or energy-type system.
    Hidden Artifact Tracker: Adds your progress on unlocking the extra tints for your hidden artifact appearance to the item tooltip.

  18. #1758
    Sounds okay for m+ where you proc gore with every swipe and thrash pretty much (possibly even multiple times per cast)...actually I just checked a random log, eoa +18, about 400 gore procs in 29 mins, that's like 6 free barkskins or so?

    The bonuses have been changed like 3 times already though, any math right now is still for nothing

  19. #1759
    Quote Originally Posted by Yxiomel View Post
    Code:
    Event		Time passed		%		Time bonus	
    NoGore		6			51.2		0	
    Gore after 3	6			12.8		0.5	
    Gore after 2	4.5			16		0.5	
    Gore after 1	3			20		0.5	
    				
    Time passed	5.16
    Time recharged	5.404
    Bonus time %	104.73
    Based on no haste, and always casting Mangle as soon as you can with only Gore abilities inbetween. In reality, it'll be slightly worse as, even with usage on CD, you will overcap the cooldown my small amounts if you proc gore just before the cooldown is up.
    More haste would make it more significant, but it seems pretty poor, giving less than 5% faster cooldown.
    Ye, it'll be more fun if it's more like 1 or 1.5s per proc.

  20. #1760
    Quote Originally Posted by roi View Post
    Sounds okay for m+ where you proc gore with every swipe and thrash pretty much (possibly even multiple times per cast)...actually I just checked a random log, eoa +18, about 400 gore procs in 29 mins, that's like 6 free barkskins or so?

    The bonuses have been changed like 3 times already though, any math right now is still for nothing
    400 gores is only 200 seconds, or 3.33 minutes. Exact value depending on levels in Perpetual Spring, thats more like 2.5 barkskins.
    Last edited by Yxiomel; 2017-07-19 at 05:01 PM.
    TalentSwitch: Automatically swaps talents on your actionbars when you change talents, and updates your macros to match. Save your favourite talent builds. (Updated for 7.0)
    BreweRyge: Adds a resource meter for Brewmaster brews, as if they were on a rage- or energy-type system.
    Hidden Artifact Tracker: Adds your progress on unlocking the extra tints for your hidden artifact appearance to the item tooltip.

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