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  1. #1

    Chaos Cleave not really 10%

    Hey lads,

    I was just fooling around with different talents and looking at some numbers and I'm noticing that Chaos Cleave isn't dealing 10% additional damage. Looking at my action windows, it'll tell me I've dealt 454906 Chaos damage with Chaos Strike and Chaos Cleave hits for 34419 Chaos. Chaos Strike hits for 382059 and Cleave hits 28925. I haven't seen a strike that dealt 10% dmg, only 7.5%.

    Have we been gimped or am I doing something wrong?

  2. #2
    High Overlord Curlyfry's Avatar
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    Maybe Chaos Cleave isn't effected by mastery?

  3. #3
    Regardless of mastery, shouldn't the Cleave damage be based on the damage of the Strike?

  4. #4
    Mechagnome
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  5. #5
    Yep, I get the 7.56% when attacking the imprisoned Forgefiend in the Fel Hammer, otherwise I do get 10% everywhere else. That'll teach me for not properly experimenting.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigonas View Post
    Yep, I get the 7.56% when attacking the imprisoned Forgefiend in the Fel Hammer, otherwise I do get 10% everywhere else. That'll teach me for not properly experimenting.
    That's still weird though. I don't see a reason why on the Forgefiend it wouldn't work, but I only Alt a DH so I'm not sure if the Forgefiend dummy serves a certain purpose other then to be a big meatbag.

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodmagix View Post
    That's still weird though. I don't see a reason why on the Forgefiend it wouldn't work, but I only Alt a DH so I'm not sure if the Forgefiend dummy serves a certain purpose other then to be a big meatbag.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Armor is variable on mobs, and is varied on training dummy's.

  8. #8
    Maybe armor is double dipping? Reducing original hit, and then it sees the additional damage as a standalone ability so it's also reducing that?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    Maybe armor is double dipping? Reducing original hit, and then it sees the additional damage as a standalone ability so it's also reducing that?
    Does armor reduce chaos damage? It says phisycal.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LazyCoding View Post
    Does armor reduce chaos damage? It says phisycal.
    I dunno, there have been some weird physical/spell hybrids for some abilities in the past, though.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Kheirn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    Maybe armor is double dipping? Reducing original hit, and then it sees the additional damage as a standalone ability so it's also reducing that?
    This would be really bad and another example of stupid coding in this expansion. No other ability works like this.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kheirn View Post
    This would be really bad and another example of stupid coding in this expansion. No other ability works like this.
    There's been double dipping with armor in the past so it's definitely possible. I can't think of any specific examples atm but it's absolutely happened; and of course it wasn't intended. I think it's just based on whether the game looks at a proc as a unique ability or not, or one that's connected to another. If it's connected, it says "the damage reduction has already taken place" I'd assume -- if not, it does it twice.

    This is all just a random guess, though.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by LazyCoding View Post
    Does armor reduce chaos damage? It says phisycal.
    Armor does effect Chaos Strike, no idea why. It shouldn't, but it does.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Armor does effect Chaos Strike, no idea why. It shouldn't, but it does.
    I think there's always been a difference between "melee magic" and "magic-magic" with several abilities - I remember Crusader Strike (I think it was CS) was a weird holy/physical hybrid for a while, and it still might be for all I know.

  15. #15
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigonas View Post
    Yep, I get the 7.56% when attacking the imprisoned Forgefiend in the Fel Hammer, otherwise I do get 10% everywhere else. That'll teach me for not properly experimenting.
    Dummies in the Fel Hammer have an increased armor or some sort of protection. I've noticed in the combatlog that it sometimes blocks damage. This can easily account for the 2,5% offset.

  16. #16
    I guess my biggest beef then comes to the definition of "Chaos Damage". Ideally, Chaos damage ignores things like armour and magic resistance.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I think there's always been a difference between "melee magic" and "magic-magic" with several abilities - I remember Crusader Strike (I think it was CS) was a weird holy/physical hybrid for a while, and it still might be for all I know.
    Well how it worked was it was 2 separate attacks Crusader Strike itself was physical and Pally Mastery at the time made it do XX% extra damage as Holy. Chaos Strike doesn't work that way, but its absolutely absurd that its effected by armor, especially in PvP where we can't even do any damage to a guardian druid because of it.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Well how it worked was it was 2 separate attacks Crusader Strike itself was physical and Pally Mastery at the time made it do XX% extra damage as Holy. Chaos Strike doesn't work that way, but its absolutely absurd that its effected by armor, especially in PvP where we can't even do any damage to a guardian druid because of it.
    Oh, I'm talking about waaaay before Mastery existed. When was Mastery added, WotLK? Cata? Either way, my best memory of this happening was during BC, like when on the Sunwell island and comparing Crusader Strike actual damage output on Brutallus to sheet data.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Meanshield View Post
    Dummies in the Fel Hammer have an increased armor or some sort of protection. I've noticed in the combatlog that it sometimes blocks damage. This can easily account for the 2,5% offset.
    the blocks happen if you attack the dummy from the front. Attack from behind and you should only see your auto attacks miss every now and then but no more parries and dodges or blocks for any of your abilities.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    Oh, I'm talking about waaaay before Mastery existed. When was Mastery added, WotLK? Cata? Either way, my best memory of this happening was during BC, like when on the Sunwell island and comparing Crusader Strike actual damage output on Brutallus to sheet data.
    Back then wasn't their mastery just a passive learnt spell? It's been a really long time, that and Rets were pretty uncommon back then.

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