Are hardcore raiders forced to do "World Quests"?

[cFortyfive]

I'll prepare my big handkerchief for those now smug imbeciles once they'll start crying over not even being able to join a mythic group anymore over the lack of items and artifact progression.

[Bathory]

Then you have not met most of the guild leaders out there

I don't need to know most, or any of them, as I glead my own guild. None of my people are going to be FORCED to do anything, nor would I demand them to. As boldy as you can claim that every gleader out there is going to demand their players, I can claim there are just as many of me's out there that won't.


Like I said, no one is forced to do anything.

[Mawnix]

Then you have not met most of the guild leaders out there

Actually I have.

It makes practical sense to do the World Quests for Gear, IF you need gear that fills that slot. There's no other reason outside of Rep, and Rep doesn't award any real gear.

Order Hall Resources? If you played the game thoroughly while leveling, there's no need. Do the quests for them here and there for more, but you virtually never run out.

Gold Quests? There's literally no point outside of personal gain for gold.

Artifact Power? Yeah, until you're Max, you should definitely do those.

Tbh I think most of you are assuming what people who play the game more hardcore are doing vs. what you yourselves are doing to push your own personal opinions on the topic.

From sincere experience since launch, if it's gear that replaces another piece of gear, you do it and it doesn't take more than 5-10 minutes. Literally.

If it's Order Hall Resources, there's virtually no need.

If it's for Gold, also virtually no need.

If it's for Emissary, of course you do it, but no one is complaining about it.

Stop assuming you know how shit operates for your own personal agenda.

[pmkaboo]

If it's for Emissary, of course you do it, but no one is complaining about it.

not entirely true, there is no point doing 90g or 150resource emissary quests today, when you can get gear upgrade quests tomorrow, or the next day.

[Mawnix]

not entirely true, there is no point doing 90g or 150resource emissary quests today, when you can get gear upgrade quests tomorrow, or the next day.

1 word: Legendaries.

Obviously there's a low chance at getting them from any of their sources, but I'm not going to skip my Emissary Quests since they have a chance to award a Legendary.

And for anyone who's about to quote me, do not take it as "See? You're forced to".

Yeah, you need to do the Emissaries to "Min Max" at the chance of getting the "best loot", but considering we're playing the game at such a level we're simply enjoying playing the game rather than sitting around, it's not as big a deal as people want to make it out to be.

[pmkaboo]

1 word: Legendaries.

Obviously there's a low chance at getting them from any of their sources, but I'm not going to skip my Emissary Quests since they have a chance to award a Legendary.

you dont skip them, they last for 3 days, and my point is you dont need to rush them on day one with shitty quests.

[Mawnix]

you dont skip them, they last for 3 days, and my point is you dont need to rush them on day one with shitty quests.

Ah, word. Then I agree completely. Sorry if I misinterpreted your post.

[Donald Hellscream]

Forced implies that they can't just choose to not do them, which is wrong they absolutely can choose not to, they won't of course but thats on them.

And its 4 world quests a day if they only do it for the emissary quests so I think they are gonna cope with it just fine.

[Auxora]

Back in mah day...

hardcore guilds had all members who didn't raid as standbys who had to dedicate all of their online playtime to farming mats for the starting hardcore raiders, as well as being online during raid times *even though they weren't in the raids*, just in case they were needed for a dc or someone having to leave for an emergency. And the hardcore raiders spent 100% of their time not in raids on their mains farming mats for profs, flasks, pots, etc.

So doing a few quests a day is almost nothing. Hardcore raiders should be spending hours every day farming, doing dailies, etc. to minmax out a little improvement. And you can only equip 1 or 2 legendaries max anyway right now anyway. I think a lot more people think of themselves as hardcore raiders than there really are though.

For the other 99% of us I'd consider them optional, but with good enough rewards for the time spent that even casual raiders would want to do them as part of their dailies.

[Osmeric]

WoD was a result of Blizzard putting in the least amount of work they could possibly do. Don't fool yourself into thinking that it had to do with anything but that. The entire thing was designed to get people into LFR as quickly as possible, because funneling everyone into LFR meant that they didn't have to work as hard on anything else, and they could just push everyone into content that they were already going to make.

This explanation doesn't make sense. They could have made 5 mans more rewarding (VP, for example) and gotten more mileage out of the content they had made. This would have required putting another draw in LFR: tier and tokens. But they didn't do that because they put a high priority on not making beyond-LFR raiders do LFR.

[fengosa]

I saw a pet battle that gave artifact power as a reward. Pet battles are clearly mandatory now.

[Queen of Hamsters]

When hardcore raiders are "forced" to do shit, it means means more stuff for the NON-hardcore players to do. The game shouldn't be catered around the idea that hardcore progression raiders should have as few "must do's" as possible outside of raiding... That = what got us WoD, people bitching about being FORCED to do shit outside of their prefered area of content.

Want linear progression and no steps outside of your comfort zone? MMORPG's might not be for you. I'm sure the hardcore players have no trouble getting themselves ready for the "race", same as always.

[Redroniksre]

I have no issues with LFR people getting stuff. They can get lots of stuff, as long as it doesnt affect me.

The nature of the beast of progress raiding is that you squeeze the last drop of performance out of your char, and if an activity you don't enjoy at all (like LFR) provides a significant boost to that ability by any means, you'll bear it for the sake of progress. If you're not doing what you can to squeeze performance from your char, you're sort of failing your raid mates. Thats what upsets people - being herded to do content they intensely dislike.

So: Have at LFR and world quests and 5 mans at will, as long as none of the rewards from it are relevant or performance desireable for raiders.



Raiding is the only thing this game has ever been and is currently good at. The only thing that matters in this game apart from playing with little colors. PvP was and is a joke, 5 mans are a joke, lfr and world quests are brain afk. There really is only one goal in WoW thats worth striving for, and thats raiding.

Except very few people actually like raiding, This isn't World of Raidcraft and if you want it to be good luck with your dead game.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Yes and it's fine.
We don't play a raiding only game, we play an MMO and that means we have to do things in the open world from time to time and not just sit in our Order Halls, Capitols, Garrisons or whatever and wait for raid invites. While I do think that these initial 2 months will be crazy grindy and repetitive (and very likely burn a number of people out) it's going to quiet down after a while and you'll just do a couple world quests a day.

Right now I'm doing around 10-20 world quests per day on one character just to grind up all the materials and resources I need.
In 2 months I'm only going to do ~10 world quests per day to get Artifact Power and do Emissary Caches.

[Kazuchika]

Reward from Emissary Quests has legendary gear.

Wow 4 whole quests per day?

What a fucking travesty life is eh?

[IIamaKing]

I give two shits if ~2% of the player base feels anything about anything. Design choices need not be made based on what so few feel they need to do.

[Deleted]

World gear is max 840.

So a hardcore raider only have to do emissary for legendaries besides their raiding and mythic+ schedule.

[Deleted]

Back in mah day...

hardcore guilds had all members who didn't raid as standbys who had to dedicate all of their online playtime to farming mats for the starting hardcore raiders, as well as being online during raid times *even though they weren't in the raids*, just in case they were needed for a dc or someone having to leave for an emergency. And the hardcore raiders spent 100% of their time not in raids on their mains farming mats for profs, flasks, pots, etc.

So doing a few quests a day is almost nothing. Hardcore raiders should be spending hours every day farming, doing dailies, etc. to minmax out a little improvement. And you can only equip 1 or 2 legendaries max anyway right now anyway. I think a lot more people think of themselves as hardcore raiders than there really are though.

For the other 99% of us I'd consider them optional, but with good enough rewards for the time spent that even casual raiders would want to do them as part of their dailies.

I'm sure the standby aspect applies to over 90% of semi-hardcore guilds too. The funniest is when the raid leader from a different country rings me and tells me to get my arse online!

[Otimus]

Leave warforged/titanforged as is there is nothing wrong with letting people have this sort of gear..

They removed LFR tier in WoD to more than likely placate those that raided, and that pissed off those that did not and only had LFR.. And what is the point of baselining mythic+ gear to LFR level..

Mythic+ is supposed to be a lot harder to do and as such should reward those that do it with the appropriate gear.. Nerfing mythic+ gear to LFR levels only serves one thing and that thing is to make that dungeon mode obsolete and pointless..

Blizz did the raid or die bit in WoD to the detriment of those who don't do organized raiding and we all know how well that worked out..

They've pretty much admitted that they went too far. It didn't "piss" people off so much as just lead to almost no one doing LFR anymore. The problem there is that people who stopped doing LFR didn't go onto anything else. So they just quit. There's a common misconception that people will "step up", when it comes to raiding. Most won't. Most never did. It's why LFR even got made.

By making almost everything rewarding to do in the game, they make it so that almost every person of every playstyle will have something to do at almost any point in the game.

If getting that makes some hardcore raiders a little unhappy, that's unfortunate, but I think for the overall health of the game, it's a vast improvement. I think I can live with that.

[Wingspan]

I have no issues with LFR people getting stuff. They can get lots of stuff, as long as it doesnt affect me.

The nature of the beast of progress raiding is that you squeeze the last drop of performance out of your char, and if an activity you don't enjoy at all (like LFR) provides a significant boost to that ability by any means, you'll bear it for the sake of progress. If you're not doing what you can to squeeze performance from your char, you're sort of failing your raid mates. Thats what upsets people - being herded to do content they intensely dislike.

So: Have at LFR and world quests and 5 mans at will, as long as none of the rewards from it are relevant or performance desireable for raiders.

I think the simple solution here would be to make all gear accessible to all play styles, but only usable within that playstyle (but have all gear usable in the open world).


By that I mean if Mythic Raids top out at ilevel 900, so do 5-mans, so does quest gear, so does LFR gear and so does PvP. But taking your Mythic raid gear into a 5-man or PvP will be less effective... and taking your 900 quest gear into raids would be less effective (key words "less effective", not useless). Literally no one would be forced into a playstyle that they did not want to do. No one... ever.


But that would probably not be enough to make people happy either I suppose.