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MMO-Champion
Seriously quit with all the bs that warlocks are crap.
Destro is great
Affli for m+
demo is crap well deal with it.
if you do low dps then the problem is not the class. it is you.
Infracted - Woz
Recent Forum Posts
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2016-09-09, 11:47 AM #1Deleted
Warlocks are fine, if you do low dps you cannot play the class.
Last edited by Woz; 2016-09-09 at 05:45 PM.
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2016-09-09, 11:52 AM #2The Patient
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yeah, you are right. 90% of wl players are noobs. Where 90% of monk, DK, rogue or DH players are highly skilled players.
yeah.... wait no! op = troll
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2016-09-09, 12:34 PM #3Blademaster
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I don't have any problems with Demo?
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2016-09-09, 12:48 PM #4High Overlord
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This is a strawman argument. He said warlocks are fine, he did not comment on any other class.
Originally Posted by HeroicMythic
The DH, or any other class, being potentially overpowered has no bearing on the power level of the warlock.
Address what was said, not what you believe may be implied.
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2016-09-09, 12:51 PM #5Bloodsail Admiral
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Didn't take long for the type of person he was talking about to appear.
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2016-09-09, 12:57 PM #6Titan
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You compare warlocks to melee classes, of which we are not melee. Melee have a specific advantage in this round of raids but you can't compose a raid group entirely around melee, you have to have ranged too. In the final round of Mop the advantage was to ranged, to the point that you didn't need melee at all. In WoD they made fights where you needed both to win. The scale tips from time to time. Originally Posted by HeroicMythic
But most importantly comparing a ranged to melee is never going to give you accurate numbers. Melee cant target switch across the room efficiently. Melee can't blow up targets that are far from a boss. Melee can't do dps at all unless they can stay right on top of the boss. Take the Demon Hunter boss in Black Rook Hold. Once she hops on the wall and shoots her beam at people all melee can do is pick their nose and kill adds. As Destro i can target the boss and the add no matter where they are.
For example in Blackrock there was the boss who could summon 2 wolves, melee were needed to cleave one while tank was tanking and ranged had to kill the other. You needed to kill both wolves in just about the same time so both melee and ranged needed to be balanced, and you needed melee to help tank soak a time bomb placed on ranged who would run in to tank. You need both melee and ranged in raids, so don't compare warlocks to the best melee classes. It doesn't work that way. Among Ranged we only really have one competitor and that is mage, of which warlocks have distinct advantages which isn't just pure damage, we can also hit two targets on opposite sides of the room with Havok, and Demo has superior single target damage.
Not everything is OMG best dps numbers!
I get it you are pissed that Warlock isnt #1 at everything but you can get over it or move on to another class. All you are doing is perpetuating a lie and ruining the opportunities for other warlock players by perpetuating your doomsayer bullshit.Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2016-09-09 at 01:16 PM.
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2016-09-09, 12:57 PM #7The Patient
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@Mhorrg WTF??
fine compared to what? To his alt lvl 108? To some afk player in an instance?
He said: "Warlocks are fine, if you do low dps you cannot play the class." Any normal human beeing will compare the dps of his class with other dps classes.
He implies that low dps from a warlock is the result of the unskilled player.... Seems like we have a loooooooooot of unskilled warlock players. They just suddenly popped up in the last few weeks.
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2016-09-09, 01:05 PM #8Warchief
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lol you made my day xD Originally Posted by Tywinn
demo is really good for single when you have a lot of haste, and it is ridiculous for aoe ...
(only problem is with talents - you have to choose single target or aoe)Last edited by Alexeht; 2016-09-09 at 01:10 PM.
Originally Posted by Shinra1
Originally Posted by Bodakane
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2016-09-09, 01:05 PM #9The Patient
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Ya, sparkuggs and almost every fucking warlock from the top raiding guilds are noob and cannot play the class.
I bet OP is doing like 300k burst in a 30 seconds~1minute boss from 5 man dungeons and thinks its a trustful source to evaluate warlock's dps.Last edited by blackops2008; 2016-09-09 at 01:08 PM.
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2016-09-09, 01:06 PM #10The Patient
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Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking
What a pathetic thinking. What a loser thinking. The solution to a specific problem is in your eyes the ignoring of the problem... omg. Just run away. Just close the eyes and it will vanish...
Nobody is complaining that warlock isn't n1 at everything....
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2016-09-09, 01:11 PM #11High Overlord
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How about comparing them to a ranged DPS class considered balanced? Originally Posted by HeroicMythic
Comparing melee DPS to ranged DPS is apples to oranges. Compare the Warlock to a Mage or Priest.
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2016-09-09, 01:18 PM #12High Overlord
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Honestly with just Hand of Doom you are fine with aoe as long as adds live long enough for doom to tick. Originally Posted by Alexeht
I go full single target setup + hand of doom and I'm good.Last edited by Ibanism; 2016-09-09 at 02:03 PM.
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2016-09-09, 01:21 PM #13Titan
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People like you were saying the same damn things at the begining of Draenor before raids even unlocked, and you were wrong then as well. People like you caused other warlocks a lot of grief as other people believed what you said and thought warlocks were trash, truth was we excelled at various fights due to the unique mechanics of our specs. If we didn't excell at a fight we were still solid as our damage was respectable and we brought utility to fights like combat rez, teleports, portals and health stones. We can hit targets on seperate sides of rooms and we can spec to be specifically strong in fights that have a set amount of priority targets. Originally Posted by HeroicMythic
I never had a problem earning my place in a raid, maybe you did but that is on you and your attitude.
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2016-09-09, 01:29 PM #14Titan
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Do you have any Legion Raid boss sources to evaluate? No? We really can't make a determination at the moment that is solid as to where we belong. Currently in dungeons I see the aforementioned best melee dps doing massive damage on trash packs but I beat them on destro in boss fights. Between trash and boss fights which of the two actually matters? Trash doesn't mean shit. Melee can be doing 500k dps on trash all they want but if they are pulling 120k dps on the boss and I am doing 150k dps on a dungeon boss guess which one of us is contributing more to the success of the dungeon run? Originally Posted by blackops2008
The only thing out there right now is a simcraft for a single target raid boss, of which if you remove the melee Demo is wiping the floor with all ranged. However this is not good data as it is only single target boss with no mechanics factored in. Once raids open we can get actual data and see how things stand. Until then don't get pissy that someone uses dungeon data because that is all we have to go on.
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2016-09-09, 01:47 PM #15Stood in the Fire
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Except that we know that their are some top guilds with extremely skilled warlocks who tried the encounters on Beta that are switching from warlocks to other classes after seeing how they perform, one example being https://serenity.gg/forum/showthread.php?tid=140 . Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking
You can't really blame people to be skeptical as to their usefulness in a raid setting when they struggled to stay relevant in the previous raid tier then get told that they are in an even worse spot.Last edited by Dwill; 2016-09-09 at 01:49 PM.
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2016-09-09, 01:55 PM #16Titan
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According to simulationcraft in 840 patchwork fight Demo is #1 among ranged, 4th among all dps. Destro is #5 among ranged and 17 among all dps. Aflic is #10 among ranged and #22 among 25 dps.
Mind you this is single target 840 patchwork, and you can't fill an entire group with melee and be successful so forget melee entirely. When people are looking for ranged to balance a group they will only be looking at ranged.
They certainly could do better with affliction balancing, but demo is #1 single target, and Destro is #5 out of 11 ranged specs (12 because shadow is listed twice due to some kind of modifier, I think talents).
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2016-09-09, 01:58 PM #17Brewmaster
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In dungeons? Trash dps is generally more important, although they both matter ofc. Thus, "overall damage" is perhaps the single best performance criterion for 5-man content, if you want to look at just one. Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking
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2016-09-09, 02:01 PM #18Titan
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Yes, these are the top 1% guilds pushing for world first, who are willing to race and faction change for a .0001% increase in DPS. If you are one of these kinds of people I suggest that you do the same. If you are not a world first guild who are motivated by a faction of an increase in power then those people's motives do not apply to you and trying to follow their lead in the different environment that you raid in is foolhardy. Tomorrow a nerf could drop or a buff could be placed in the game which upsets their entire game plan and they would of invested 2 weeks into empowering the weapons of those characters to no avail. I would also believe they play so much that they have back ups. Originally Posted by Dwill
They strive for world first, do you? No? Much like in Draenor shit changes and specs leap around in the dps charts all the time.
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Trash means exactly jack and shit in a dungeon. If you are booting people based on their trash numbers you are doing it wrong. Judge them by their boss numbers and their ability to deal with mechanics. If they are pulling decent numbers on the boss and avoiding all damage from mechanics then they are better than someone pulling huge numbers on trash and taking lots of damage on boss mechanics. Originally Posted by Uzkin
Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2016-09-09 at 02:06 PM.
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2016-09-09, 02:05 PM #19The Patient
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- damage is random
- chaos bolt a bad joke
- you can either do aoe or single target
- talents are uninspired crap composed of spells that used to be baseline
- haste is our best stat now, better than int, yet it not only is difficult to get hast on all items, it always had such a low effect
- mastery is our worst stat now, yet it is to be found on everything, even the 8-piece set-bonus is a mastery proc
- visuals got transfered to other classes and resetted to old versions, instead of beeing updated properly
- rain of fire is by no means worth three shards and even has a cast-time now
...
Blizzard went from "Destruction is in a good place already.." and then destroyed the spec by changing almost everything for no reason,
removing utility, adding annoying spells like life tap while leaving spells like eye of killrog in place.
Not a single replacement for any of our glyphs. Not one.
AOE was good, single target could have been better.
All of that plus we are easily outperformed by most other classes.
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2016-09-09, 02:08 PM #20Deleted
Fact of the matter is that Warlock can do numbers, but it's not the best and it's tedious because it puts you in a position where you either swap specs between trash and bosses or use tomes to swap talents.
I've run with guild groups so I can communicate that I want to swap speccs to kill trash / bosses faster and seeing as the healer needs to drink for mana it doesn't end up being to much of an issue.
Right now you either single target, aoe or do neither (in an attempt to do both) which makes the class feel lackluster. If say siphon life was a baseline spell for affli the class would be a lot more comfortable. Destro could use Cataclysm, although Destro is the class that needs a buff the least. Demo would do so much better in dungeons if Doom would summon an imp if a target dies whilst it being present. Also, the Hand of Doom and Power Trip are so fucking dull an imaginative as talents i'd really wish they'd get remaked into something usefull. Hand of Doom is suppose to be an AoE talent but it's pathetic as fuck, Power Trip is annoying undependable RNG.Last edited by mmoc949706cdeb; 2016-09-09 at 02:11 PM.
