Metamorphosis too strong in pvp?

[Axola]

So basically, i'm @ lv 43 honor talents, did my fair share of skirmishes and bgs in the pre season (also a 2.2k player), and one thing seems unfair to me... it's metamorphosis; i get it that it's an iconic ability and blabla, but seriously, am i the only one who thinks it's damage increase and duration are too high? Demon Hunters are bursty enough even without it

[docterfreeze]

I definitely think it lasts too long. They pop it as soon as they are in range to stun and will likely still have it up when the match ends. Along with they that have other ways to get into it other than popping the CD, like falling below a certain % of hp or using eye beam.

Speaking from a 2v2 perspective.

[Snegovik]

I think Meta is a bit too long, maybe it should be 20 sec? also i think high ST is fine, but clv dmg maybe needs a slight tuning ? But once again game is balanced around 3s, so in 3s ppl should be able to peel DH to a certain extent but ya the burst is insane atm... and its pretty much instant, i mean yes it helps if you build up fury, but most DHs just pop it asap they are in range no build up needed >.<

[BannedForViews]

The duration is not the issue, is everybody's damage. I got hit for 1 million by a full moon + whatever other thing. full moon didn't crit and hit me for 680k, as a paladin with devo aura. that might be okay 1v1 but 2 or more people and it's totally game breaking. I think the problem is they want their game to be Call of Duty and most players do not.

[Snegovik]

The duration is not the issue, is everybody's damage. I got hit for 1 million by a full moon + whatever other thing. full moon didn't crit and hit me for 680k, as a paladin with devo aura. that might be okay 1v1 but 2 or more people and it's totally game breaking. I think the problem is they want their game to be Call of Duty and most players do not.

well dont forget Meta can be popped instantly and you can not stop the dmg other than cc/peels while DH is being mobile. Full moon (correct me if i am wrong by all means) is ca stable and Boomy has to stand on 1 spot, hence you can LoS/Kick cast on top of being CCed

[Deleted]

it's not like DH is invincible in meta. force his trinket in a fear/sheep/hex/whatever. then stun him and he's dead if you know how to burst. if he pops his defensives right before your stun you got outplayed.

[Cempa]

For the first time in a long time I'm seeing healers drop from the amount(or kind or concentration whatever you wanna call it) of cc+burst in this expansion .. When a single spec can setup +8xxk in a few globals man burst gets crazy in a BG ..

Now they might like it in 3v3 but this expac is going to, most definitely, be the most frustrating for the great majority of players who have the most fun in casual BG's ..

[Anbokr]

I think the core issue with DH is simply their cleave damage.

Sure meta lasts a long time and is powerful, but that's pretty unique to DH and balance-able imo. If they cut Blade dance's damage to secondary targets by 50%, nerf bloodlet (aka throw glaive bleed) in both pve and pvp, then DH will be fine and meta damage will still be big but heal-able. The primary issue is that the power spike of meta + the ridiculous cleave is too much together, one or the other needs to go and I'd rather see the latter tuned down.

Bloodlet is a huge gigantic sore right now in both PVE and PVP. It is massively overtuned on the damage tier it's on and has insane synergy with other talent tiers. Nerfing that for both pve and pvp reasons will go a long way to balancing out demon hunter damage.

[BannedForViews]

well dont forget Meta can be popped instantly and you can not stop the dmg other than cc/peels while DH is being mobile. Full moon (correct me if i am wrong by all means) is ca stable and Boomy has to stand on 1 spot, hence you can LoS/Kick cast on top of being CCed

My point still stands. Why are solo classes doing more dps than healers can do hps. If dh did 80% of its current damage would we cry about mera? Maybe, but it would be a lot more manageable.

Many moons ago not everyone had a kick or a stun. Now they are extremely common place and offense does more damage than it should, so fights revolve aroumd blowing cooldowns quickly and winning over a patient though out match (which can occur in a reasonable time). Meta is like a scrap on your knee when your stomach is eviscerated. If they focus on the bigger picture it will work out.

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it's not like DH is invincible in meta. force his trinket in a fear/sheep/hex/whatever. then stun him and he's dead if you know how to burst. if he pops his defensives right before your stun you got outplayed.

Its that simple huh? Kill him in a stun burst? That is what sounds like enjoyable ge play? Seriously this is exactly the shit ruining pvp. It srarted in wrsth and only seems to of gotren worse. This is not an fps and ir shouldnt play like one.

[Makatafinger]

We are extremely squishy. Just time your CC and burst correctly and we cant do anything unless we predict when you are going to burst.

[Anbokr]

We are extremely squishy. Just time your CC and burst correctly and we cant do anything unless we predict when you are going to burst.

It really doesn't matter how squishy we are. I play a DH as well and when you're outputting 3-4x the damage of any other dps in the arena, something is wrong. To me the cleave damage is just unhealable. You want someone to try to peel the DH, but as soon as you shift a DPS to stick on the DH, he gets to cleave two targets and this ends up hurting the healer more than it helps.

Also I really don't think we are as squishy as many people think. Meta is basically 30s of invincibility, a good healer will keep you up through stuns, and when you're not stunned, you are literally unkillable. Blur is a short CD and one of the more powerful defensive CDs. Fel Rush and the constant flipping make it difficult for anyone to stick on you and for casters to get an easy line of sight. Not to mention awaken the demon gives a nice rush of lifesteal in a pinch and acts as another pseudo 1 min defensive (and offensive) cd. Don't forget the passive magic reduction as well.

Sure, DH might not be sub rogue or ret pally levels of tank, but they are arguably average, worse off than several specs and better off than others when it comes to survivability. Being a bit squishy at times is not an adequate offset for the current level of damage output. DH damage has room to go down AND STILL be top damage and extremely strong is the thing.

[barrsftw]

I don't like the skill as a whole for a PvP perspective. I would love to see the CD and duration be reduced by ~50%.

[Torched]

I don't like the skill as a whole for a PvP perspective. I would love to see the CD and duration be reduced by ~50%.

..... Meta has a 5 min CD... it has 3min 40 something sec if you put in the artifact power for the CD to go down.

[Deleted]

dhs cleave is out of this world. definitely needs to be tuned down.

[Appelgren]

Not surprised the people defending this stupid ability are the ones obviously playing it themselfs

[shimerra]

My point still stands. Why are solo classes doing more dps than healers can do hps. If dh did 80% of its current damage would we cry about mera? Maybe, but it would be a lot more manageable.

Then your point is idiotic. If a single DPS can never do more DPS than a healer can put out HPS then that means a DPS can never 1v1 a healer which is retarded and not balanced. You know what's also not enjoyable game play? Never ever ever being able to out damage a healer.

You're not talking about a patient thought out match. You want the grind fest style of pvp where you grind into the other players HP for hours with no hope of ever killing them until one of you does a miserable fuck up. Not because you're a better player or they're worse but because after 20 minutes someone has to fuck up eventually.

Not surprised the people defending this stupid ability are the ones obviously playing it themselfs

And the people too stupid to handle it regardless of it's balance state whining about it

[Snegovik]

My point still stands. Why are solo classes doing more dps than healers can do hps. If dh did 80% of its current damage would we cry about mera? Maybe, but it would be a lot more manageable.

Many moons ago not everyone had a kick or a stun. Now they are extremely common place and offense does more damage than it should, so fights revolve aroumd blowing cooldowns quickly and winning over a patient though out match (which can occur in a reasonable time). Meta is like a scrap on your knee when your stomach is eviscerated. If they focus on the bigger picture it will work out.

Dont get me wrong i totally agree with you that atm melee and some casters, do too much dmg and too much burst, and i do feel bad for healers since even for my Ret, its easy to kill them, and Ret could never solo easy a healer ever since Wrath.

Yeh I remb the days when my Ret did not have kick and only way for a Ret to get kick (not counting HOJ) is to go BE for racial silence =). But back in BC even though interrupts and stuns and cc were much less over all, the dmg for some specs was insane, the Wars with Mace or Sword specialization + Wfury totems from Rshammies could solo most healers (other than resto droods) pretty fast.

To be honest, before 20th of September (before raids/arena start) Blizzard will nerf/balance the burst/dmg across most of classes, even dps classes like Rets whose dmg is not even close to leather melee brothers, because right now the burst/dmg is toooooo high and should be toned down either through pvp templates across the board or direct spell multipliers, otherwise it will be a melee zerg fest with comps like Arms/DH/Healer all season long.

[Deleted]

From a random BG perspective... DHs are always top DPS and often top KB. There's basically no competition for a DH that knows which buttons to push (which isn't that hard).

I wonder how they will do in arena, as now people just tend to say things like "lol random BGs, who cares". I'm afraid that this level of dominance will transfer into the arenas.

[Snegovik]

From a random BG perspective... DHs are always top DPS and often top KB. There's basically no competition for a DH that knows which buttons to push (which isn't that hard).

I wonder how they will do in arena, as now people just tend to say things like "lol random BGs, who cares". I'm afraid that this level of dominance will transfer into the arenas.

in 2s arena, DHs are not that good to be honest, i did a grind up in skirmishes on my Ret up to rank 16 over weekends, and never lost to a DH in 2s, since they are soo soft and most DH have no clue how to play defensively or kite >.< they rush in @ you with meta popped right away and die, hence they don't live long enough to put out any meaningful dmg, my Ret usually does 2-3x times DH dmg in 2s

in 3rd however, unless DH will be nerfed, i think DH will be one of the top tier comsp, due to its insane clv/aoe dmg + insane burst. I can see comps like Arms or UH/DH/Healer dominating Arenas. Hence i think Blizzard should tone down DH's dmg some how, either its cleave dmg or a flat adjustment across pvp templates.

[Alexieel]

Then your point is idiotic. If a single DPS can never do more DPS than a healer can put out HPS then that means a DPS can never 1v1 a healer which is retarded and not balanced. You know what's also not enjoyable game play? Never ever ever being able to out damage a healer.

In my opinion a Healer should do more HPS then a DPS does DPS - so the DPS has to use Stuns/kicks etc to kill the healer, and the healer has to use fakecasting/cc to survive.