[Shadow] This is what shadow in mythic+ will be like a few months from now.

[GT4]

So you say there won't be any number tweaks in a few months from now?

That's a dumb argument to make. When somebody is asking for changes, you cannot as a counter argument assume that changes are going to be made. That's completely illogical.

[Deleted]

That's the point.

10% higher on bosses (even if it were true) doesn't make up for doing 20% of the trash DPS of other classes when Mythics are about both AoE and single target.

Wait until raids come out and people see ferals/warriors/hunters/rogues beating spriests on single target. Then when mythic raids open up and people notice that those classes can do their damage while moving, have shorter interrupts, stuns, 100% boss uptime and can deal AoE we'll see the real QQ begin and the mass exodus of spriests.

LOL that entire video was a demonstration of how important it is to bring DPS specs strong enough to carry the spriest who's being out dps'd by the holy paladin for 80% of the dungeon. The fact that some people think that video is proof of how good spriests get shows me how deluded some people here are. Top fucking kekkers.

I wouldn't say deluded, forgive me for being rude but I would just say unintelligent.
I'm pretty sure there are a few people on these forums that just post complete bullshit information just so SPs don't get buffed, so they don't start beating their main class or some other bizarre reason. To actually believe the class is fine in the AOE departement and needs no tweaks, I'm sorry but you must not be very smart.
(the few people that actively try their hearts out to defend the spriest dungeon experience in this thread know who they are)

[warlockiii]

It just seems to me it's impossible that Blizzard doesn't know what is happening. They aren't some fly by night indie operation with 3 people. They have analytics tools and reports to track performance, so it's kind of hard for me to believe this isn't intentional. If it wasn't for warlocks, I would think it's intended, because DPS queues are really awful now--and fixing ele, balance, and shadow would make them worse. But then again, it looks like they're going to fix warlocks--probably bump them up to 3 soulshards, so they can try to address their ramp up problems. So then it will be hybrid heals only... Not that they could or would admit it, but that's what I think.

[Biomega]

It just seems to me it's impossible that Blizzard doesn't know what is happening.

Every time I read this, I have but one reply:

Void Entropy.

We spent an entire expansion with a useless talent that everyone hoped would become good eventually, desperately wanted to be an actual choice. And nope. Blizzard completely ignored it and was apparently totally fine with a 2-talent last tier for SPs, not to mention the whole CoP situation that seriously pissed off a WHOLE lot of SPs.

[Dawnrage]

It just seems to me it's impossible that Blizzard doesn't know what is happening. They aren't some fly by night indie operation with 3 people. They have analytics tools and reports to track performance, so it's kind of hard for me to believe this isn't intentional. If it wasn't for warlocks, I would think it's intended, because DPS queues are really awful now--and fixing ele, balance, and shadow would make them worse. But then again, it looks like they're going to fix warlocks--probably bump them up to 3 soulshards, so they can try to address their ramp up problems. So then it will be hybrid heals only... Not that they could or would admit it, but that's what I think.

This faith in Blizzard needs to really stop. Sure, I know that they aren't just laughing in their chairs at the plight of spriests in dungeons, but Blizzard has a REALLY bad track record when it comes to balance. Whatever tools they use have never been good, and they have a history of doing knee-jerk nerfs and buffs more than anything else.

You can't tell me that anyone who plays a spriest at Blizzard, wouldn't have gone into a heroic/mythic/mythic+ dungeon at some point during the long beta Legion had, and see all these things that are problems now. Either they accepted that we are just going to be bad in dungeons because they don't know how to balance our core mechanics (dots) in cleave situations and also because they really want to make S2M work for some odd god damn reason since I guess they think it's their best idea for spriests they ever had or some crap, or that they have simply never played any of their classes in a live environment and simply tune stuff according to how it looks on paper.

Let's ignore the whole spriests blowing in dungeons thing, and talk about our artifact tree for example - Why is mass hysteria worth so much more than our other gold traits, and has such crazy synergy with S2M? Why is sphere of insanity allowed to be such trash for a gold trait? Why is that stupid SW: D trait 3 points for 10% more damage and so much worse than other options?

These are a few examples of one going, "what is going on in their heads?" There's so many problems with spriests, both minor and major, that don't make sense from a design point of view. I'm sure other classes have similar problems as well. Balance in this game sucks, not because Blizzard makes bad decisions, but because they really are out of touch with the specs.

[l33t]

It just seems to me it's impossible that Blizzard doesn't know what is happening. They aren't some fly by night indie operation with 3 people. They have analytics tools and reports to track performance, so it's kind of hard for me to believe this isn't intentional. If it wasn't for warlocks, I would think it's intended, because DPS queues are really awful now--and fixing ele, balance, and shadow would make them worse. But then again, it looks like they're going to fix warlocks--probably bump them up to 3 soulshards, so they can try to address their ramp up problems. So then it will be hybrid heals only... Not that they could or would admit it, but that's what I think.

That's... a very weird way of thinking. So, do they really think that if my shadow spec sucks in dungeons, I suddenly say "fuck it, that's enough" and reroll into a healer? I, like, SERIOUSLY doubt it. The problem with queues lies within artifact system, not within players.

[warlockiii]

That's... a very weird way of thinking. So, do they really think that if my shadow spec sucks in dungeons, I suddenly say "fuck it, that's enough" and reroll into a healer? I, like, SERIOUSLY doubt it. The problem with queues lies within artifact system, not within players.

Of course I can't say for sure, but I can't imagine Blizzard isn't aware that all ranged DPS suck at dungeons. Anyway, it's just a theory. But do you really not think think there are players who go healer for instant dungeon queues? And that DPS queues weren't a problem before artifacts? Not to mention DPS can get artifact points from world quests and missions.

[Simulacrum]

Burst aoe is overrated in dungeons.

Ok you can do 1million dps for 5seconds. But what is relevant is the total damage done throughout the run.

1m dps compared to our 100k dps on trash for 5s is roughly the same dmg done as me winning a 1minute long boss fight with 200k compared to our hunters 180k.

People just dont realise that though.

No, this is wrong.

The higher your burst dps, the less time you need to stay alive before the mobs die. If that time gets low enough, you can have aoe CC or cooldowns up for the whole duration of the fight. You can just gather up a huge pack, pop cooldowns on your tank/healer and CC them all, then burst them down before they start raping you. That's why burst damage is so important in 5 mans. If you can't do that, then you have to do smaller pulls, which means everything ironically both gets a lot slower and a lot more dangerous.

Boss damage is also important, but sometimes being able to skip boss mechanics designed to be survivable is a lot less important than being able to skip instakilling trash mechanics designed to wipe you if you pull too much of it at once.

Which is seemingly what all the people defending shadow as a even remotely viable spec in 5 mans don't realize.

[l33t]

Of course I can't say for sure, but I can't imagine Blizzard isn't aware that all ranged DPS suck at dungeons. Anyway, it's just a theory. But do you really not think think there are players who go healer for instant dungeon queues? And that DPS queues weren't a problem before artifacts? Not to mention DPS can get artifact points from world quests and missions.

Nope, you didn't get it, do you? People who care about their performance, rerolled long time ago into other dps classes (specs). People who do not care about their performance, will keep being a burden and play shadow in dungeons up to mythic+, if they are lucky to find a group which will suffer playing with shadow in dungeon content. I seriously doubt any person who plays a damage dealer will reroll into a healer just because their dps spec sucks.

Also, before artifacts you could just press a button and play your healing spec if/when you need to join queue content, to shorten the queue. Nowadays, with artifact, me personally won't waste precious early artifact power to level up healer's artifact. And lots of people I've asked feel the same. But the biggest problem lies within unability to play solo as a healer. In the expansion which focuses on both uniqueness of specs and great solo content in form of world quests, being a healer means you have to put double effort to be able to do solo content. Basically, with artifact system healers lost a lot of the QoL changes they gained since WoTLK. This would be easy to avoid if artifact power you gained allowed you to level up all of your artifacts simultaneously; or, you could at least use your main spec artifact for your offspec needs. But, sadly, Blizzard as always chose the "fuck you, all we want is profit" way.

[Gilgameshh]

If our AoE could even have the potential to be 70% of the burst AoE specs I'd be completely satisfied. They'd only be 5-10% below us on ST (maybe?) but to me that's the most important aspect of any progression content most of the time.

I think Shadow Crash should be baseline and I don't see a good reason why it's not. Reduce the burst damage and remove the sanity generation, make it apply our DoTs to everything it hits, and give it a 1-minute CD or something along those lines. That way on big packs we could Shadow Crash -> Mind Sear and have potential to keep up a reasonable amount. I haven't done the math, but I figure that's a reasonable solution. Replace the the talent with a buff to Mind Sear that makes it deal increased damage to targets afflicted by our DoTs. Remove Void Ray's buff to Mind Sear, although I doubt that would even be necessary.

I'd also like Vampiric Embrace to be a buff that you can place on a specific person. Could reduce the duration/power to keep it balanced.

[GT4]

Of course I can't say for sure, but I can't imagine Blizzard isn't aware that all ranged DPS suck at dungeons. Anyway, it's just a theory. But do you really not think think there are players who go healer for instant dungeon queues? And that DPS queues weren't a problem before artifacts? Not to mention DPS can get artifact points from world quests and missions.

Not all range DPS suck though. BM/MM are doing fine. Arcane is doing fine and really well with the legendary pants. Fire is doing fine in Mythic and doing really well in Mythic+. All other casters, however, kind of suck because they have ramp up times, no mobility and they're somewhat undertuned for single target as well. In addition to that, Shadow and Frost have basically no AoE to speak of.

[Dawnrage]

How are people doing on average 300k on single target or am I misunderstanding something when you guys keep saying that? I do about 250k on a good pull with heroism on a 1 min~ fight with about 840 ilevel, though this is running with shadow crash. Does PI/MB really give you 50-100k more dps?

[GT4]

How are people doing on average 300k on single target or am I misunderstanding something when you guys keep saying that? I do about 250k on a good pull with heroism on a 1 min~ fight with about 840 ilevel, though this is running with shadow crash. Does PI/MB really give you 50-100k more dps?

They're having confirmation bias and talk about their ideal case DPS as if it was their average. Unless you already have insanely good gear (proper trinkets, 845++ and many sockets), you need very specific circumstances when it comes to fight length and talents as well as bloodlust to go above 300k right now. You don't have these specific circumstances for most dungeon boss fights if you prioritize actually clearing the dungeon as quickly as possible.

[Dorothyjean]

So here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUu1GH-ojJE

That shadow priest is kicking ass :/

I dont know what your problem is.

Some specs are better for ST some are better for aoe. You choose a class that only has 1 dps spec. You cant be king of everything

The mage does over 1 mill like once during the dungeon on a massive aoe pull. The DH i dont see doing above 1 mil.

This is exaggerating at its very finest.

Looks like you are going to be raping in raids AND be viable for mythic 8+ dungeons.

gz

That's because that shadow priest is spec'd for Mythic's and so is his weapon. For raiding Void Tendrils is low priority but for Mythic dungeons it's a huge boost to DPS. I was doing Heroics with a fellow shadow priest who was alt'ing one to do Mythics and they were spec'd into that and on trash, he always destroyed me whereas I'm setup for raiding. Eventually, I'll have Void Tendrils but if you go that route JUST for Mythics, by the time raiding comes out, your DPS will suffer on ST because you'll need a ton of AP to get the good stuff.

The other problem with Mythics is Shadow Word: Death which potentially will up our overall damage is utter crap on some bosses like Helya and Odyn, so why bring someone who will not result in big numbers when you can bring DPS that don't suffer because a bosses health pool never gets to <35%?

If you can keep your abilities up through a dungeon, you can do nice dps on trash and ST but some of the Mythics will be hard to pug because of the lackluster performance.

[Deja Thoris]

How are people doing on average 300k on single target or am I misunderstanding something when you guys keep saying that? I do about 250k on a good pull with heroism on a 1 min~ fight with about 840 ilevel, though this is running with shadow crash. Does PI/MB really give you 50-100k more dps?

They're bullshitting. Unless I see logs I don't believe it. It's not that I don't believe there are many better players than me out there but the numbers just don't add up unless they are entering an STM fight with full insanity and BL or something. In that case its very much a "dream scenario" and not the general state of affairs.

[zellgren]

The only fight i have done 340k on is last boss of Eye, with bloodlust and full insanity at start. Most other fights are between 170k-240

[warlockiii]

Not all range DPS suck though. BM/MM are doing fine. Arcane is doing fine and really well with the legendary pants. Fire is doing fine in Mythic and doing really well in Mythic+. All other casters, however, kind of suck because they have ramp up times, no mobility and they're somewhat undertuned for single target as well. In addition to that, Shadow and Frost have basically no AoE to speak of.

Yeah, sorry---I meant really caster hybrids. The Pure classes aren't doing nearly as bad--except warlock, which they area already specifically looking at.

Nope, you didn't get it, do you? People who care about their performance, rerolled long time ago into other dps classes (specs). People who do not care about their performance, will keep being a burden and play shadow in dungeons up to mythic+, if they are lucky to find a group which will suffer playing with shadow in dungeon content. I seriously doubt any person who plays a damage dealer will reroll into a healer just because their dps spec sucks.

Also, before artifacts you could just press a button and play your healing spec if/when you need to join queue content, to shorten the queue. Nowadays, with artifact, me personally won't waste precious early artifact power to level up healer's artifact. And lots of people I've asked feel the same. But the biggest problem lies within unability to play solo as a healer. In the expansion which focuses on both uniqueness of specs and great solo content in form of world quests, being a healer means you have to put double effort to be able to do solo content. Basically, with artifact system healers lost a lot of the QoL changes they gained since WoTLK. This would be easy to avoid if artifact power you gained allowed you to level up all of your artifacts simultaneously; or, you could at least use your main spec artifact for your offspec needs. But, sadly, Blizzard as always chose the "fuck you, all we want is profit" way.

I don't know why you think you can't put points into 2 artifacts. I highly recommend checking out this graphic on this page - http://blog.askmrrobot.com/2016/08/a...on/#more-17949

[Wycked]

dear blizzard. Please double mind sear's dmg. Thank you.
-spriests

- - - Updated - - -

lets be real though. No one actually cares about mythic+...People just want the gear from mythic plus. Inconvenient for a few weeks, split heroics should make up the difference though.

[l33t]

I don't know why you think you can't put points into 2 artifacts. I highly recommend checking out this graphic on this page - http://blog.askmrrobot.com/2016/08/a...on/#more-17949

I never said I can't. I won't. Even at the cost of one minor trait.