1. #1

    Is the I-lvl multiplier/ template in PVP really .01%=1 I-lvl? I don't believe so

    I spent an entire day PVPing on my Boomkin and flat out wrecked people. Hours went by like minutes, I consistently placed in the top 3 in dmg and contributed to the objectives. Part of it was getting into a grove with the class (blizzard streamlined and smoothed the rotation in Legion), part of it was luck of the draw with very good random groups.

    Two days later, I am getting totally and completely wrecked and can’t buy a win. I’m experienced enough to know sometimes you get a bad run of bad groups. As a caster, I’m also experienced enough NOT to get myself into 1vs3’s, I pick and choose my spots very carefully. I've noticed when I'm getting trained and wrecked consistently, 90% of the time the opposing teams dmg is nothing less than domination. And, there are a lot of different reasons for that - it could be the RNG of noobs vs pros, could be up against a pre-made coordinating in skype or they may possess more healers.

    I’m isolated in a 1vs1 with an Enhancement Shaman who possesses 2.6 mil health while I am at 2 mil health (hit 110 two days ago). And, I am completely and totally wrecked by the Shaman. I hit up the Shaman’s armory and he’s 848 I-lvl to my 818 I-lvl which is exactly 30 pts. According to Blizzard, 1 I-lvl = .01% stat boost in pvp or roughly 3% (30 I-lvls higher).
    So my question here is two-fold:

    1) Shouldn’t the Shaman’s health be 3% higher, not 30% higher?
    2) Why did the fight feel like me in reg honor gear up against someone in full conquest gear?

    I did a little more research and decided to compare apples to apples, in other words compare my Havov Demon Hunter to the same spec/ class at max level. Turns out I found a few Demon Hunter with 2.3 and 2.4 mil health to my 2 mil. Hit them up on the armory and they possessed roughly 20 I-lvls on me (825 to 845). According to Blizzard’s math that should translate into 1.5% - 2% of a health boost, not 15-20%.
    I understand the artifact traits bump you .75% stam for each trait, up to 34 traits. So my next set of questions is also two-fold:

    1) Have people “honestly” hit 34 traits on their artifact weapon already? I'd imagine it's possible cause I've been screwing around with alts a bit and neglected to kick start Art Knowledge asap (it's up and running now). Cause even if these people did, there is still a slight disparity in the numbers.
    2) Does the artifact weapon I-lvl greatly effect health in PVP? Does the third relic slot effect health?
    Last edited by Luxeley; 2016-09-21 at 04:02 PM.

  2. #2
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    2 mil to 2.3-2.4 isn't a huge jump. 2-3% from gear + having like 5-6, maybe even 7-8 more traits than you could do that. Also they could have Reinforced Armor (PVP talent). That's literally almost 10% extra health than you, + gear differential.

    Same thing with Boomy to Enhance. Enhance may just have more HP, plus he could be taking Reinforced Armor. It could be his main and have more than average traits, if he's playing a lot.

  3. #3
    Artifact weapon has bonus health per ilevel if I remember correctly.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...na-Calculation

    I doubt players have unlocked all the traits and are working on ilevel weapon and stamina bonuses themselves.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Valedus View Post
    2 mil to 2.3-2.4 isn't a huge jump. 2-3% from gear + having like 5-6, maybe even 7-8 more traits than you could do that. Also they could have Reinforced Armor (PVP talent). That's literally almost 10% extra health than you, + gear differential.

    Same thing with Boomy to Enhance. Enhance may just have more HP, plus he could be taking Reinforced Armor. It could be his main and have more than average traits, if he's playing a lot.
    I appreciate the feedback, I completely forgot reinforced armor. The combo of that plus more traits definitely explains the DH to DH discrepancies I XP'd. If the Shaman is maxed with Traits at 34, that plus Reinforced Armor explains the health difference. But, I don't know if players hit the 34 trait mark yet

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    I appreciate the feedback, I completely forgot reinforced armor. The combo of that plus more traits definitely explains the DH to DH discrepancies I XP'd. If the Shaman is maxed with Traits at 34, that plus Reinforced Armor explains the health difference. But, I don't know if players hit the 34 trait mark yet
    IIRC, and this could totally be wrong because the beta forum post with stat templates was removed, Enhance got proportionately more Stamina to help make them less squishy. I KNOW DK's did, but I think Enhance did too. I'm also not familiar with Enhance, they may have some health buff in Doomhammer or something. EX: My HPal has about 2.4-2.5 mil, but I get 15% extra hp as a passive. I'm between classes or I'd log onto my enhance and look around at what they can take.

    I don't think its physically possible to be at 34 traits yet. My paladins weapon is at like 20 or 21 and it is starting to be like 35k or 40k or so. Even at 200% gains, I have to play for a long time each day to break like 10k a day (I usually don't. Think I made like 7-8k yesterday doing 2's and 3's and a couple big world quests?)

    I'm fairly certain that once you are at like trait 25-28, it'll start taking hundreds of thousands.

  6. #6
    There's the honor talent at lvl 16 that increases health by 10%. There's also a priest spec that has some kind of fortitude buff i believe. Lastly, how the artifact stats contribute to your total stats inside instances is ambiguous at best.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Livevil View Post
    There's the honor talent at lvl 16 that increases health by 10%. There's also a priest spec that has some kind of fortitude buff i believe. Lastly, how the artifact stats contribute to your total stats inside instances is ambiguous at best.
    The #'s are starting to add up with Reinforced Armor and the Disc buff which is 15%, add in the i-lvl difference and extra traits and it starts to make sense. Blizzard honestly needs to figure how the artifact is best represented in Pvp. Cause a new 110 (with little or no Pvp talents) vs. someone with even half artifact pwr and half pvp talents is kinda like Full honor gear vs Full conquest fear all over again. And, I thought the whole purpose of "normalized" gear in pvp was to negate this and move in a different direction unless its not.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    I spent an entire day PVPing on my Boomkin and flat out wrecked people. Hours went by like minutes, I consistently placed in the top 3 in dmg and contributed to the objectives. Part of it was getting into a grove with the class (blizzard streamlined and smoothed the rotation in Legion), part of it was luck of the draw with very good random groups.

    Two days later, I am getting totally and completely wrecked and can’t buy a win. I’m experienced enough to know sometimes you get a bad run of bad groups. As a caster, I’m also experienced enough NOT to get myself into 1vs3’s, I pick and choose my spots very carefully. I've noticed when I'm getting trained and wrecked consistently, 90% of the time the opposing teams dmg is nothing less than domination. And, there are a lot of different reasons for that - it could be the RNG of noobs vs pros, could be up against a pre-made coordinating in skype or they may possess more healers.

    I’m isolated in a 1vs1 with an Enhancement Shaman who possesses 2.6 mil health while I am at 2 mil health (hit 110 two days ago). And, I am completely and totally wrecked by the Shaman. I hit up the Shaman’s armory and he’s 848 I-lvl to my 818 I-lvl which is exactly 30 pts. According to Blizzard, 1 I-lvl = .01% stat boost in pvp or roughly 3% (30 I-lvls higher).
    So my question here is two-fold:

    1) Shouldn’t the Shaman’s health be 3% higher, not 30% higher?
    2) Why did the fight feel like me in reg honor gear up against someone in full conquest gear?

    I did a little more research and decided to compare apples to apples, in other words compare my Havov Demon Hunter to the same spec/ class at max level. Turns out I found a few Demon Hunter with 2.3 and 2.4 mil health to my 2 mil. Hit them up on the armory and they possessed roughly 20 I-lvls on me (825 to 845). According to Blizzard’s math that should translate into 1.5% - 2% of a health boost, not 15-20%.
    I understand the artifact traits bump you .75% stam for each trait, up to 34 traits. So my next set of questions is also two-fold:

    1) Have people “honestly” hit 34 traits on their artifact weapon already? I'd imagine it's possible cause I've been screwing around with alts a bit and neglected to kick start Art Knowledge asap (it's up and running now). Cause even if these people did, there is still a slight disparity in the numbers.
    2) Does the artifact weapon I-lvl greatly effect health in PVP? Does the third relic slot effect health?

    Gear playes a much larger role in PvP than Blizz have had us believe in this xpack. I had a similar experience as you and when I looked up the players who killed me in a single stun they hade around ilvl 845 or higher to my 820. With players with the same ilvl as me it's totaly different.

  9. #9
    Gear matters more in Legion.

    They lied and players that did not listen to the alpha/beta testers are now the test subjects for Blizzards mad science projects unleashed on a paying population.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitus View Post
    Gear playes a much larger role in PvP than Blizz have had us believe in this xpack. I had a similar experience as you and when I looked up the players who killed me in a single stun they hade around ilvl 845 or higher to my 820. With players with the same ilvl as me it's totaly different.
    Is it the gear or the artifact pwr? For example: I've gone 1vs1 against another Havoc Demon Hunter, put up a great fight but lost. Did a little research and discovered a rather deeply embedded artifact talent - Rage of the Illidari increases Fury of the Illidari dmg by 60% (spread among players in an area) but in a 1vs1 it's a huge difference maker against someone who doesn't have it. Other classes possess similar Artifact traits, but the DH one is among the more powerful ones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Gear matters more in Legion.

    They lied and players that did not listen to the alpha/beta testers are now the test subjects for Blizzards mad science projects unleashed on a paying population.
    I'm not a huge fan of Blizzard. So even if I am drunk, I believe half of what they say. I'm not familiar with Alpha/ Beta feedback. Since I didn't get into the Beta, I preferred to experience the sense of discovery with everything live. But even if I did listen, I'd listen to the ones in the public eye (other You Tubers like myself) and most of them do not know their "ass from their elbow" to be honest.

    What kind of feedback did the testers provide about the new pvp? And better yet, is there evidence of this on the forums or even a video? Your input is very intriguing, but I need you to be more specific cause Idk what the general impressions were. And if I listen to Baj, Swifty or Belluar - I'd hear "Legion pvp is great!!!"

  11. #11
    Deleted
    [QUOTE=Luxeley;42439983]Is it the gear or the artifact pwr? For example: I've gone 1vs1 against another Havoc Demon Hunter, put up a great fight but lost. Did a little research and discovered a rather deeply embedded artifact talent - Rage of the Illidari increases Fury of the Illidari dmg by 60% (spread among players in an area) but in a 1vs1 it's a huge difference maker against someone who doesn't have it. Other classes possess similar Artifact traits, but the DH one is among the more powerful ones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Remember that all classes get huge buffs and talents on their artifacts so that's not it. Not much changed in PvP for me by going for honor talents instead of gear initially either. Now that I gear up it's much more of a differance.

    Are we really that surprised? After 11 years of wow gear, as always is king.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    Cause a new 110 (with little or no Pvp talents) vs. someone with even half artifact pwr and half pvp talents is kinda like Full honor gear vs Full conquest fear all over again.
    Its substantially worse, actually. Honor gear was only 10 iLevels behind CQ gear - about a 9.2% stat difference. Currently, you can have a ~10% gear gap (unlikely - more likely to be realistically around 4.5%-6%) AND Artifact powers AND PvP Talents causing a MUCH larger disparity.

    And you could get full honor gear without even PvPing in a few hours... so currently... it's worse.

    It's almost like there were a bunch of us (both in the beta and not) warning people this was coming from minute one. If only you could go back and look at the posts ... oh wait.

  13. #13
    There is currently a bug causing weapon damage to not be controlled by the PvP templates, meaning someone with a high artifact ilevel that is reliant on weapon damage (Enhancement, for instance) will be doing significantly more damage than intended.

    us.battle .net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749038607

    That's where the discrepancy is coming from, I believe. The actual difference in stats from templates is 0.1% as stated, so no need to panic, things should smooth out once they fix that.

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