Warlock Buffs arent enought!!

[Gaidax]

lol@ people thinking skewed data does end an argument.

shaking my head. This is pathetic trolling.

It is amusing though and you have one parse for XaviusM up!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Destruction Warlock no.1

His teammates must have been bad!

[Deleted]

It is amusing though and you have one parse for XaviusM up!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Destruction Warlock no.1

His teammates must have been bad!

No his/her teammates are probably amazing. They are all good players.

It is still 1 parse though. If people think that is enough to make a judgement on balance then ... tough.

For me it is not enough.

It is simply sad that both sides are trolling. The people who say warlocks are trash and those that they warlocks are amazing. Both are passive aggressive and think they are smarter than the other party.

The very few reasonable people who think warlock are neither total shit nor godlike are the ones who cannot find an educated discussion here other than NOTs and BRUSALKs guide where people actually answer in a fashionable manner and not throw insults at each other and say "git gud".

Shame.

[Gaidax]

The thing is the very few reasonable people try to say again and again that Warlocks are in fact fully capable of pulling their weight and doing well. In this thread you have people who claim warlocks are trash, that they are not viable and so on and so forth.

So yes, showing these things is a vindication for those who said that Warlocks are in fact able to contribute and were ridiculed time and time again in this thread.

And that log is a definite proof that Warlock can indeed do well and even if his teammates are not shit or guild is not bad, which are the "points" every time raised in return.


Do not worry, soon this thread will degrade to "lawl Blizzurd wtf gief 20% moer buff and we r 30% behind everyone omg - if you do gud in raid, your teammates r shit", but I think you can allow this moment of respite here.

[Jondar]

The thing is the very few reasonable people try to say again and again that Warlocks are in fact fully capable of pulling their weight and doing well. In this thread you have people who claim warlocks are trash, that they are not viable and so on and so forth.

So yes, showing these things is a vindication for those who said that Warlocks are in fact able to contribute and were ridiculed time and time again in this thread.

And that log is a definite proof that Warlock can indeed do well and even if his teammates are not shit or guild is not bad, which are the "points" every time raised in return.

Correct.

10char

[Deleted]

Destruction, destruction, destruction, destruction, if I don;t want to play it?

Mind you it might almost be worth it because nothing could be worse than the cancer called Soul Effigy. Ten minutes and you gotta keep the fucking thing in range

You;d almost think they neve rhear dof Prismatic Crystal

[Baconeggcheese]

Destruction, destruction, destruction, destruction, if I don;t want to play it?

This has literally been true for every class for the entire games life. Diff specs do better / worse at different points and other specs unfortunately are left in a worse state. Its not ideal, but its the reality of the game we play, if that's unacceptable for you, then I dunno what to tell you.

But not wanting to play the perfectly good and better than viable spec the class has is on you, it doesn't mean the class is bad.

[Jondar]

Destruction, destruction, destruction, destruction, if I don;t want to play it?

Mind you it might almost be worth it because nothing could be worse than the cancer called Soul Effigy. Ten minutes and you gotta keep the fucking thing in range

You;d almost think they neve rhear dof Prismatic Crystal

Destruction and Demonology are both viable. 2/3 viable specs is great.

[Deleted]

I'm personally enjoying destruction and finding I can hold my own. I don't feel we are as immobile as some make out with rift and conflag.

Aoe is a bit spikey with cataclysm it's really good with, not so good on cd, maybe reduce the cd and damage.

Chaos bolt cast time is a touch to long. I don't feel we are the problem though we could do with a small St buff along with the other low specs, but I think it's the ones out infront who need bringing inline on St to make it more about who plays better.

I would like St more balanced, then see them work from there in regards to cleave, aoe. I don't feel they will sit on it but they need to give things a chance, some specs will scale better than others with gear, but that doesn't necessarily mean us.

Hopefully they will continue to make small tweaks every few weeks until they get thing's closer. But I don't feel we are by any means unplayable

[Sartre]

This cleave mania's been bugging me a lot since it started to become "the" thing. Because of cleave, we inevitably have abominations like "does X, also deals Y damage in 8 yards of area" stuff. Since melee cleave got out of hand, blizz felt responsible to do the same for caster/ranged specs too. TBC/WotLK systems were real nice for that matter, iirc. Now, havoc is one different subject. Tbh I don't like that either. In Blizz's world, every nice idea for a class comes with heavy consequences, and progressively becomes a shadow of its former self. (ruin crits, embers, CB, channeled fillers, soulburns, multiplier debuffs, etc)

[Bridius]

Lol. Well, that ends the WCL argument.

The only reason for numbers like that is because of the retardation that is Wreak Havoc. That talent needs to be removed and replaced.

It is amusing though and you have one parse for XaviusM up!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Destruction Warlock no.1

His teammates must have been bad!

No his teammates aren't bad. He's being carried by Wreak Havoc.

[Gaidax]

No his teammates aren't bad. He's being carried by Wreak Havoc.

What kind of silly answer is that?

He is getting carried by Wreck Havoc just as much as DH getting carried by Throw Glave/Bloodlet cleave, Fire Mage by ignite spreading around, Spriest by 2x StM and multidotting...

Yes, many specs have some sort of cheese and in a world where you have all what I mentioned, I see no reason why we should not have something of that sort too.

Wreck Havoc is very very strong, it's a great asset useful in many encounters and ingame overall.

[dofz]

Loving to progress through mythic in 857 ilvl and neck+leg legendaries(got legs today after the raid) when most other have legendaries! FeelsBalancedMan

[Gaidax]

You were already saying warlocks were fine long before we got the +11% buff. So... not sure why you think you have an argument.

"We're fine is," is your standard mantra even when we're not.

No I was saying that we are not trash, I did in fact always say that a small buff is needed. I even posted bloody suggestions in a bloody suggestions thread that gone to shit. As a matter of fact a day before the buffs were released I asked to make RoF faster by dropping cast time and to buff Chaos Bolt, both of which were done.

In this specific thread after the buff I claim we are fine mostly, while some small cleanup for Destruction is in order and Affliction still needing attention.

Do you have an issue with that?

[nessopito]

Loving to progress through mythic in 857 ilvl and neck+leg legendaries(got legs today after the raid) when most other have legendaries! FeelsBalancedMan

My nightmare...

[Deleted]

What kind of silly answer is that?

He is getting carried by Wreck Havoc just as much as DH getting carried by Throw Glave/Bloodlet cleave, Fire Mage by ignite spreading around, Spriest by 2x StM and multidotting...

Yes, many specs have some sort of cheese and in a world where you have all what I mentioned, I see no reason why we should not have something of that sort too.

Wreck Havoc is very very strong, it's a great asset useful in many encounters and ingame overall.

It's bad design to have a spec almost totally dependent on one talent. It makes the other talents irrelevent (something that Blizz have tried very hard to get away from for years), it tends to turn a spec into "great where you can use the talent, but crap otherwise", it introduces balancing issues because Havoc essentially lets you do double damage, so to make single target where you can't use Havoc competetive it makes it overpowered where you can use it

Endless Havoc is really just a talent crutch, it;s no different to something like a stupidly OP trinket that lifts a class from bad to good whenever you can use it.

It's just terrible design to have Destruction being almost totally dependent on that one talent.

[Sunlighthell]

Retribution paladin Templar verdict HITS for 400k damage, instant cast, no cd. Chaos bolt with 44% mastery and 26% crit will CRIT for the same amout of damage maybe 2-3 times out of 10. 1.95 seconds cast with 29% haste, no cd. I don't know how some people can call "buffs" they did on last reset actually a "buff" because it changed NOTHING to warlocks. And this is only pve. In pvp there was only nerfs from pre patch. But who cares about 4% minority.

[Deleted]

Retribution paladin Templar verdict HITS for 400k damage, instant cast, no cd. Chaos bolt with 44% mastery and 26% crit will CRIT for the same amout of damage maybe 2-3 times out of 10. 1.95 seconds cast with 29% haste, no cd. I don't know how some people can call "buffs" they did on last reset actually a "buff" because it changed NOTHING to warlocks. And this is only pve. In pvp there was only nerfs from pre patch. But who cares about 4% minority.

It is always hard to directly compare spells.

For example hunters and warlocks have a pet that deal a lot of damage and you don't even need to waste any GCD for it on an entire boss fight.

[Deleted]

But hunters run marksman which doesn;t use a pet. They are almost always a liability. They can die, you have to micromanage the bloody things, and the melee ones usually don;t have a gap-closer so you lose a lot of damage whilst the things run around

I see virtually no beast mastery hunters. They just don;t match marksman for damage, and the pet usually turns into a liability.

MM can use a pet, but no one uses it: the first talent choice is to dump the pet in exchange for more personal damage.

[Deleted]

But hunters run marksman which doesn;t use a pet. They are almost always a liability. They can die, you have to micromanage the bloody things, and the melee ones usually don;t have a gap-closer so you lose a lot of damage whilst the things run around

I see virtually no beast mastery hunters. They just don;t match marksman for damage, and the pet usually turns into a liability.

MM can use a pet, but no one uses it: the first talent choice is to dump the pet in exchange for more personal damage.

My point is spells have to be seen in the bigger scheme of things. I am not quite sure how much they have castrated the other classes. I agree that Chaos Bolt should hit harder for how long the cast is and how much resources it needs, but you should remember Chaos Bolt is ranged.

For example at Nythendra when you have rot you can still cast Chaos Bolt, but the Ret paladin needs to run away and is too far away to use Templars Verdict.

Warlock does have some spells other classes would like to have too. Like shadowfury or demon skin.

One thing that warlocks definitively lack is a baseline (non-pet) interrupt.