I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[kary]

I have my MoP cloak. This isn't about me. I've yet to see you justify why campaigns should be time sensitive. I don't see the reason why the dragon staff or the shadow axe are still obtainable and the ring and cloak are not. It just plain makes no sense. Why remove them? Who benefits? As well, it remains a notable fact that most people playing right now didn't even buy Legion at all.

Cite your sources on your bullshit claim, first of all.
Secondly, you're comparing a dungeon/tier locked event to an expansion wide event. The cloak/ring were intended from the get-go to be time sensitive. It's not the McRib. I don't have to "justify" it's removal, it was designed/sold as a time sensitive event. The time has passed. Justify why you deserve to have access to these events.

Other time sensitive events have come and gone. Brewfest? Time sensitive but annual. Scourge invasion? Time sensitive but once in a lifetime.

[Osmeric]

As well, it remains a notable fact that most people playing right now didn't even buy Legion at all.

You realize they don't buy expansions in China, right?

[Dch48]

I think it's a foregone conclusion that the whole concept of artifact weapons will not exist in the next expansion. In my opinion, it's a mistake and already is failing miserably. It's taken away spec switching for the most part because it takes so long to build up one weapon and the others remain gimped. It also is a huge deterrent to leveling alts, again because of the time required to build up one character that needs to be concentrated on to the exclusion of all others. I predict they will return to the old system of weapon upgrades through drops of different weapons like the rest of our gear.

As for the artifact quests, personally, I don't care about getting a skin for my weapon because I hate the one that comes from this questline anyway. I bought the "Hidden" appearance (which for BM Hunters is not really hidden at all like for some other specs) and it's the only one I intend to use going forward. Really, the whole concept of changing the appearance of a weapon that is supposed to be so special and reserved for only the elite is kind of stupid in the first place. It should be unchangeable and even non-transmoggable in order to make any sense and keep it special.

I'm also predicting upcoming nerfs to the normal difficulty in EN, especially on the Il'gynoth fight. My guild tried all night on Saturday to down it and never got inside the tree more than once before wiping. Our best attempt ended at 53% and a couple ended at 100%. There are just too many mechanics, adds, and things to watch out for in that encounter. We can't be the only guild having problems with this fight. It's not fun to keep banging your head against a wall which just seems insurmountable. I even encountered two wipes on the fight in LFR.

[Drakpower]

I'm also predicting upcoming nerfs to the normal difficulty in EN, especially on the Il'gynoth fight. My guild tried all night on Saturday to down it and never got inside the tree more than once before wiping. Our best attempt ended at 53% and a couple ended at 100%. There are just too many mechanics, adds, and things to watch out for in that encounter. We can't be the only guild having problems with this fight. It's not fun to keep banging your head against a wall which just seems insurmountable. I even encountered two wipes on the fight in LFR.

Maybe? I doubt it though. As long as you know the priority targets, you can just down them in order and it is not bad at all. Your raiders maybe could use more gear too. The wipes in LFR mostly happen because people stay in the tree too long/can't get out fast enough.

[Osmeric]

The casual guild I'm raiding with has downed Il'gynoth twice. It's challenging but there are many improvement tweaks you can make. Higher dps as your gear improves will also help.

[Dch48]

Maybe? I doubt it though. As long as you know the priority targets, you can just down them in order and it is not bad at all. Your raiders maybe could use more gear too. The wipes in LFR mostly happen because people stay in the tree too long/can't get out fast enough.

Yes, that is exactly what happened in LFR. It was the tanks who didn't get out fast enough. As far as the priority targets in Normal go, we couldn't determine what they were. We tried with Dominators being top because of the tank damage and such, then switched to Corrupters, then to Deathglares. Nothing made much of a difference.

We tend to make up our own strats and they work better than the ones given by places like Icy-veins and such. For instance, we couldn't beat Ursoc until we decided to have everyone stack behind him and have two groups alternate on moving to the side when somebody gets targeted. That way the ones taking the damage are automatically in the path between Ursoc and the targeted player who runs straight back and don't have to move at all. The next time, they move to the side and the other group stays put to soak the damage. For Il'gynoth, nothing we have tried works.

[Drakpower]

Our raid is pretty similar, we familiarize ourselves with the current strategies and then make necessary adjustments. Like I'm sure with most guilds, we have 3 ranged players and infinite melee so we have to adjust. I forget our exact strat but we kill the big horror, then corrupters, dominators, deathglares are in there somewhere. ...Good thing I'm not the read leader, that guy has his work cut out for him.

On topic, as a raider, I'm okay with the Artifact APPEARANCE quest being higher level than LFR. If an appearance was tied to Mythic raid difficulty, which we tend to not get to, I wouldn't mind either. It's not a power upgrade but just an appearance.

[Dch48]

Our raid is pretty similar, we familiarize ourselves with the current strategies and then make necessary adjustments. Like I'm sure with most guilds, we have 3 ranged players and infinite melee so we have to adjust. I forget our exact strat but we kill the big horror, then corrupters, dominators, deathglares are in there somewhere. ...Good thing I'm not the read leader, that guy has his work cut out for him.

On topic, as a raider, I'm okay with the Artifact APPEARANCE quest being higher level than LFR. If an appearance was tied to Mythic raid difficulty, which we tend to not get to, I wouldn't mind either. It's not a power upgrade but just an appearance.

My guild is different, we have a lot more ranged than melee. We have 5 or 6 Hunters in the group of 15-17 people along with a mage or two, a Balance Druid, and maybe a Warlock. For melee we have a Feral Druid, a Rogue, and of course the 2 tanks. We have two raid groups. One is a "progression" group where you have to have done all of the challenges in the Proving Grounds to get in and the other one is a casual group that pretty much takes anyone who wants to go and has a high enough iLvl. I'm in the casual group. Even our progression group is now having problems in Heroic raiding. They cleared Normal quickly but last night they got stuck on Heroic Elerethe Renferal. They got him to 5% once but all the other attempts ended at 50% or higher. Having not seen the fight on Heroic (and I'm sure I never will) I have no idea what the issue was.

I do agree with the OP that all aspects of the game should be open in some way to everyone who plays. I also think that having to do Mythic dungeons as part of the quest advancement in Suramar is bullcrap as well.

[Kantalope]

I'm also predicting upcoming nerfs to the normal difficulty in EN, especially on the Il'gynoth fight. My guild tried all night on Saturday to down it and never got inside the tree more than once before wiping. Our best attempt ended at 53% and a couple ended at 100%. There are just too many mechanics, adds, and things to watch out for in that encounter. We can't be the only guild having problems with this fight. It's not fun to keep banging your head against a wall which just seems insurmountable. I even encountered two wipes on the fight in LFR.

When you say that your guild keeps banging their head against a wall, I imagine that they're doing that to their keyboard if they can't clear normal.

Seriously, the fight doesn't need to be nerfed. You need to take a different approach, or tell your guild to get better. You can't go in the the exact same tactic every time and expect that eventually it'll work.

*And if that's not an option, maybe it's time to accept that you aren't good enough to achieve everything, including artifact skins.

[Dch48]

When you say that your guild keeps banging their head against a wall, I imagine that they're doing that to their keyboard if they can't clear normal.

Seriously, the fight doesn't need to be nerfed. You need to take a different approach, or tell your guild to get better. You can't go in the the exact same tactic every time and expect that eventually it'll work.

*And if that's not an option, maybe it's time to accept that you aren't good enough to achieve everything, including artifact skins.

Obviously, you didn't read where I said we had tried many different strategies and none worked. You also didn't read where I said that personally, I don't even want the skin. It isn't fair though that people who do want it and for one reason or another will only be doing LFR can't get it. We could get legendaries by doing LFR before. Why is a trivial thing like a skin gated like this?

Also, I fully realize that I will never do any Heroic raiding and certainly no Mythic and you know what? I have no desire to. I fully recognize and accept my limitations. I have been almost exclusively an LFR raider in the last 2 expansions before this one and never cleared any of the raids on Normal difficulty. I'm just saying that the current iteration of Il'gynoth has too many mechanics and things to watch out for and not only should be but WILL be nerfed in the near future when Blizzard sees how many groups are struggling with it. People like me are a much larger percentage of WoW's player base and alienating us is just not good business.

[Tech614]

I'm just saying that the current iteration of Il'gynoth has too many mechanics and things to watch out for

lol what, having a lot of adds does not make a fight complicated. There is literally 2 things that matter on the fight. 1) killing corrupter tentacles and 2) making sure blobs die at the eye. Everything else dies in time and isn't dangerous.

Hell on normal, the blobs do no damage and don't even apply the DoT so you can just face tank them at the eye. It's trivial.

The fact you're saying you guys had trouble even getting to the heart tells me you're doing it wrong. It's not about being bad players, flat out doing the fight wrong is the issue. You haven't even got to the 2nd phase 1 when corrupter tentacles spawn in africa and you're thinking it's hard? What is this?

[Sorrior]

I'm now wondering if they'll go full Blizzard and remove some/all the alternate skins once Legion ends.

In the name of PRESTIGE*

*1 minute of parading in Orgrimmar then changing the mog to something that you actually find cool instead of something prestigious

Honestly..I expect them to do this..also abandon legendary and a bunch if other systems. It really does feel at times like blizzard just does a bunch of one off things we invest time a d effort into then poof gone

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They haven't done that to anything cosmetic since WoTLK. Well, non pvp related anyway. If you're honestly salty about not being able to get legendaries after they were rendered irrelevant, you will never be happy.

Ehhh cata they Removed an insane number of quests and item appearances along with then if you did not have them before(see class quest items linkens sword of Mastery and so on)

They actually do it fairly often to my knowledge

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Honestly the game isn't about, or hasn't been about previous expansion content, at all.
And the "core story arc" is something that happens at max level (90 in MoP, 100 in WoD) and you'd have to intentionally park there to "enjoy" it.
That timeframe has passed. You missed the boat.

Heh did you ever consider ditching stuff from previous expansions is a dumb idea and removing content in general makes no sense at all?

Honestly I cannot help but feel the entitled ones are not those asking fir said quests or lfr to have drops but those opposed to it.

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Okay, if you choose to that that's up to you.
But the game moves on, old content becomes invalid and time sensitive campaigns go away. You wanted your MoP cloak? Play during MoP.

What if someone is a new player? And what if they didn't want the cloak but to see the story/lore?

[Khadys]

It would be great if they stopped taking content away. Content is why we come back and stay.

[Mercane]

Im sure theirs recolors you dont have. Maybe a couple of awful looking pieces here and there.

The entire tier of skins is locked out if you dont do normal. The quest cannot be completed. At the least rhe other ones should be unlockavle wjtbout normal.

I really don't get all the hate and frustration people are throwing towards this 'appearance' being locked behind a normal raid achievement when they don't have the same pity party over Mythic mounts they'll never have anytime soon, mythic tier appearances, or any of the other rewards gated behind harder difficulties.

Yet- just like those harder difficulties the relative requirement to down that content gets easier and easier the further into the expansion we go. Saying that those appearances are locked forever is a logical fallacy since they will be readily available by the time Nighthold LFR unlocks and even the most casual LFR heroes will be geared to an ilvl equivalent of Mythic EN anyway. 'Organized Raiding' isn't a thing 2 tiers later when everyone walks in 100 ilvls over what the content was designed for, and this isn't a new phenomenon. You can open Group Finder right now and see groups for everything from ICC to Warlords raids for cosmetics.

Just wait people, if you're a casual player- this isn't unattainable forever, just for the next few weeks. This is fine.




Edit: Seriously though, stop it with the 5 man group argument, Mythic+15 is infinitely harder than anything in Emerald Nightmare (which on Normal the hardest part is literally Nythendra trash).

[kary]

Honestly..I expect them to do this..also abandon legendary and a bunch if other systems. It really does feel at times like blizzard just does a bunch of one off things we invest time a d effort into then poof gone

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Ehhh cata they Removed an insane number of quests and item appearances along with then if you did not have them before(see class quest items linkens sword of Mastery and so on)

They actually do it fairly often to my knowledge

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Cata revamp is an entirely different beast, they changed the entire world, not comparable with removing a time sensitive quest chain, at all.



Heh did you ever consider ditching stuff from previous expansions is a dumb idea and removing content in general makes no sense at all?

Honestly I cannot help but feel the entitled ones are not those asking fir said quests or lfr to have drops but those opposed to it.

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We're playing the game the way it's designed for the time period for which it was designed. Game moved on, so should you.


What if someone is a new player? And what if they didn't want the cloak but to see the story/lore?
Missed the boat, sorry

Bolded my responses, too lazy to format

[Sorrior]

Bolded my responses, too lazy to format

Heh you are how do I put this politely..Dense as an ox huh?

Our entire point is WHY EVEN REMOVE CONTENT THAT IS THEIR!?

I know of no other game that does it like this

Holiday events sure

One off special events such as launches of course

But primary story chains tied to the game itself? It is stupid beyond belief.

In FFXIV they have kept all important story quests even made older raids and dungeons relevant again so EVERYONE can see it and still experience stuff.

Wow just abandons shit and clearly I an not alone in feeling this is horrible game design.

Give me ONE reason to remove quest chains from the game just one good reason. Hell they could remove the legendary items or reduce stats and I bet some people would still run it.

It should cost nothing to keep it in hell it may cost something to code their removal how does it make sense?

[kary]

Heh you are how do I put this politely..Dense as an ox huh?

Our entire point is WHY EVEN REMOVE CONTENT THAT IS THEIR!?

I know of no other game that does it like this

Holiday events sure

One off special events such as launches of course

But primary story chains tied to the game itself? It is stupid beyond belief.

In FFXIV they have kept all important story quests even made older raids and dungeons relevant again so EVERYONE can see it and still experience stuff.

Wow just abandons shit and clearly I an not alone in feeling this is horrible game design.

Give me ONE reason to remove quest chains from the game just one good reason. Hell they could remove the legendary items or reduce stats and I bet some people would still run it.

It should cost nothing to keep it in hell it may cost something to code their removal how does it make sense?

The raids are still there.
The time sensitive event that was fated to disappear from the game at the end of a time period is not.
The story still exists without the legendary quest. The legendary quest is a perk for being an active sub at the point in time when it was active.
I don't know how again to explain this to you people.

WoW didn't abandon the cloak/ring line. The quest had a time and place, and that time is over. The story continues on. With or without you.

[Leodric]

Normal is anyways a faceroll, can't stand in fire though I supposed :P

[Sorrior]

The raids are still there.
The time sensitive event that was fated to disappear from the game at the end of a time period is not.
The story still exists without the legendary quest. The legendary quest is a perk for being an active sub at the point in time when it was active.
I don't know how again to explain this to you people.

WoW didn't abandon the cloak/ring line. The quest had a time and place, and that time is over. The story continues on. With or without you.

And I do not know how to sat any clearer alot of people enjoy lore and would love to do quests to see it.

OK let me try another way what if wow lives for say another 10 years what about people too young to have even played but who get really into it and would love to do said quests not for any item but simple lore?

[kary]

And I do not know how to sat any clearer alot of people enjoy lore and would love to do quests to see it.

OK let me try another way what if wow lives for say another 10 years what about people too young to have even played but who get really into it and would love to do said quests not for any item but simple lore?

Then they missed the boat.
You aren't entitled everything in the game.