Post-nerf Outlaw retune needed

[shaunika123]

I am expecting Watcher to keep his word about not nerfing one spec that was the best at something, below others.

you grossly misinterpreted what he said

he said specs wont be nerfed into oblivion, and they followed that mindset, they barely nerfed outlaw by 3%
they buffed another spec slightly above it but it's not like the gap is this huge unclosable thing
if you did a fight a 100 times the sub rogue may win 60 of them but he wont win all 100 even in 880 gear
and even when he does win.

you either follow the "if its not the best it's garbage" cutting edge high level mentality and deal with the consequences of that (as you have for the past 11 years)
or you do the "ill stick with what i like since the gap isnt big enough to warrant me to change" mentality in which case you're still fine outlaw is still very much competitive

if outlaw ends up useless itll get buffed back, just like sub did.

[mikeezy]

The point is not who is getting buffed or nerfed. The point is that top dog should stay top dog.

Its obvious to anyone with the slightest of reading comprehension.

It's so obvious, that you had to shift your crying to get a different point across.

[Deleted]

LOL... what a great comback...

Its true however. The whole things only matters to people with the same premise: Wanting to be the very best they can.

So in this case, your views do not apply

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you grossly misinterpreted what he said

he said specs wont be nerfed into oblivion, which is what they did, they barely nerfed outlaw by 3%
they buffed another spec slightly above it but it's not like the gap is this huge unclosable thing
if you did a fight a 100 times the sub rogue may win 60 of them but he wont win all 100 even in 880 gear

No. You need to go watch it again, You are directly misquoting him

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It's so obvious, that you had to shift your crying to get a different point across.

I'm not shifting anything. The point has been the same the whole time, you just missed it

[mikeezy]

I give up on you. You can't clearly articulate a problem, then you continue to insult numerous people and call them names for not understanding WTF your main complaint is. At some point, maybe you need to realize that the problem isn't with every other person on the thread. Maybe it's you.

PS please show me these logs with your godly, perfectly optimized, non-pleb dps. I'm very intrigued.

[Deleted]

I give up on you. You can't clearly articulate a problem, then you continue to insult numerous people and call them names for not understanding WTF your main complaint is. At some point, maybe you need to realize that the problem isn't with every other person on the thread. Maybe it's you.

PS please show me these logs with your godly, perfectly optimized, non-pleb dps. I'm very intrigued.

I cant help if you feel insulted.

The actual topic of this thread has been the problem that outlaw started out as king and is no longer looking to be king going forward.

Its not a problem if me articulating the problem. Its you jumping in the middle of a thread to call semantics on one post for no reason at all.

Anyway 13 posts, account made less then a month ago. Either a troll, a blocked guy using a vpn or someone who just doesnt matter. Either way blocking you will only make the thread more cosntructive for everyone

[shaunika123]

The actual topic of this thread has been the problem that outlaw started out as king and is no longer looking to be king going forward.
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but.. that's not a problem, it's been like that for 11 years

it'd be kinda boring if the same spec was on top for 2 years straight every expac

you're really misunderstanding watcher, that "firemage 5%-10%" thing was just an example, they didnt say that's literally what they're going to do every time.

the jist of what he said was that they'll rather buff stuff than to nerf them so you wont feel weaker rather others will feel stronger.
outlaw is still fine, if you're in a situation where that small gap between the 2 specs makes it mandatory for you to play sub, then getting it up to par should not be a problem for you hell you're probably already progressing on mythic cenarius right?
and if not, why do you care?
the difference is so minuscule that unless you're in a world top 20 guild it really wont matter
especially since xavius is so easy on mythic that hes gonna die before people are even 880 (where sub actually does start to really pull ahead)
so in reality all you have to do is get sub up to par to your outlaw by the time trial of valor opens, which is months away.

outlaw is still going to beat sub about 45 out of a 100 times in this content
and it still has a higher dmg cap

there are bigger differences in legendary powers than between sub and outlaw so by that logic if you dont have seal of ravenholdt you might as well not play the game since yoU're not viable

[Deleted]

but.. that's not a problem, it's been like that for 11 years

it'd be kinda boring if the same spec was on top for 2 years straight every expac

you're really misunderstanding watcher, that "firemage 5%-10%" thing was just an example, they didnt say that's literally what they're going to do every time.

the jist of what he said was that they'll rather buff stuff than to nerf them so you wont feel weaker rather others will feel stronger.
outlaw is still fine, if you're in a situation where that small gap between the 2 specs makes it mandatory for you to play sub, then getting it up to par should not be a problem for you hell you're probably already progressing on mythic cenarius right?
and if not, why do you care?
the difference is so minuscule that unless you're in a world top 20 guild it really wont matter
especially since xavius is so easy on mythic that hes gonna die before people are even 880 (where sub actually does start to really pull ahead)
so in reality all you have to do is get sub up to par to your outlaw by the time trial of valor opens, which is months away.

You are literally the only one intepreting it that way. He literally said: if a spec is 10% ahead. Instead of nerfing it below the other specs(so everyone who poured a lot of time into it have to switch) they will nerf it to be 5% ahead.

Also it is a problem in this expansion (which is also why its an actual thing this time vs the other times) because you need very specific relic traits and a lot of AP in a spec for it to be viable.

[Demeia]

Well I agree the sky is not falling, I also agree that the Watcher point was pretty clear: they would avoid nerfing the top spec because people might very well have based their artifact decisions on playing that spec because being the strong dps spec was important to them.

To be honest, I feel the whole idea of three separate artifacts was just absolutely flawed. Or rather, the idea that you should need to level your offspec artifacts. That was a bad idea, discouraging tanking and healing. They are extremely weird about people who swap specs regularly or swap talents regularly--like we are committing some kind of terrible sin by doing so (at least if we are dps).

There can be three artifacts but they really should share the same points. Rewarding people for playing just one spec is also punishing players for playing all three.

[shaunika123]

You are literally the only one intepreting it that way. He literally said: if a spec is 10% ahead. Instead of nerfing it below the other specs(so everyone who poured a lot of time into it have to switch) they will nerf it to be 5% ahead.

Also it is a problem in this expansion (which is also why its an actual thing this time vs the other times) because you need very specific relic traits and a lot of AP in a spec for it to be viable.

they didnt nerf it below any spec
they buffed other specs above it

there's a big difference
and that's what you dont get.

you're literally taking a random arbitrary example given in a random interview on the fly as a literal by the numbers design philosophy that applies to every single class/spec the exact same way. when it was just a ballpark example with random numbers thrown around.

it's not difficult to catch up offspec with how artifact knowledge and point scaling work and how you can spam mythic+ for offgear, literally for infinite time. and it's not like you didnt have to get different weapons before for your offspec

im not disagreeing that they may have miscalculated a tiny little bit, but the specs are still basically the same still so

[Deleted]

they didnt nerf it below any spec
they buffed other specs above it

there's a big difference
and that's what you dont get.

you're literally taking a random arbitrary example given in a random interview on the fly as a literal by the numbers design philosophy that applies to every single class/spec the exact same way. when it was just a ballpark example with random numbers thrown around.

No.

Watchers point was that you shouldnt have to respec your entire weapon because of buffs and nerfs a month into the expasnion. The question he got was about the difficulty of changing specs during buffs nerfs, and he answered that with saying they wouldnt buff or nerf specs so that new kigns would appear.

If you actually watched the inverview you would have known this


it literally doesnt matter if one spec gets buffed or the other gets nerfed. What matters is having to reroll to the most effective spec


Also. Even with all this outlaw was nerfed at the same time as they where buffed.

So even if you where right(you arent), your point was moot

[shaunika123]

No.

Watchers point was that you shouldnt have to respec your entire weapon because of buffs and nerfs a month into the expasnion. The question he got was about the difficulty of changing specs during buffs nerfs, and he answered that with saying they wouldnt buff or nerf specs so that new kigns would appear.

If you actually watched the inverview you would have known this


it literally doesnt matter if one spec gets buffed or the other gets nerfed. What matters is having to reroll to the most effective spec


Also. Even with all this outlaw was nerfed at the same time as they where buffed.

So even if you where right(you arent), your point was moot

look since by your logic (and it is sound logic from a certain point of view, i follow it as well to a certain degree but it only affects like 1% of players really) every spec that isnt #1 isnt viable

do you honestly believe that for 2 years straight sub and assa shouldnt ever viable(since outlaw is on top) and the hierarchy should be the same just to spare the inconvenience of gathering points to an offspec for a couple days to catch up? especially during a time where it matters the least (sub will only get noticable ahead by the time competitive guilds kill mythic xavius, and if you dont it doesnt matter what you play)

why even have specs at that point?
competitive raiding is about adapting, your spec aint the best anymore? adapt, the math has been done, keeping an offpsec up will delay you by 1-2 days tops on your main one after like a month or two.

also dont forget that while outlaw currently is basically at it's lowest point in terms of the artifact weapon (deception or maybe 1 point in fortune's strike being the most common and still only 1 golden) while assa for example is already at 3 golden dragons and sub has the 2 better ones and most of the good traits.

and the mythic sims are done with the most optimal legendary, and since shadow satyr's walk is totally insane in terms of value it's not a surprise it's that far ahead.

[Svisalith]

I put 14 points into Elemental Shaman so you can see why i am not having fun right now. Wish i could take it all out and put it into my Resto spec so i can be viable. It's honestly such a bad system.

14 points cost what, 13k? A single mythic 2+3 run gives 4500AP in 15-20 minutes right now and i need 105k for my current mainspec weapon trait - 13k is nothing

[Deefame]

they barely nerfed outlaw by 3%

What? My damage is atleast 10% less now than what it was. Less damage on RT and less RT's + energy starvation. Every good rogue used Fatebringer or Fate's Thirst relics and we got crapped upon.

[Neeks13]

I just got done with raid, I am at the point now that if Outlaw isn't re tuned I am just going to quit, raiding tonight was way more stressful than it should have been. You either roll 3 or higher on every RtBs or you are dead last in Mythic Progression. With work and class I don't have time to level up another character or build up Muta or Sub. Well played blizz

[Sephiroso]

I just got done with raid, I am at the point now that if Outlaw isn't re tuned I am just going to quit, raiding tonight was way more stressful than it should have been. You either roll 3 or higher on every RtBs or you are dead last in Mythic Progression. With work and class I don't have time to level up another character or build up Muta or Sub. Well played blizz

Then you're shit at Outlaw. Sorry not sorry to say.

Infracted.

[Coldkil]

There's already an Outlaw discussion thread, plus the entire discussion has derailed into pointless fight already. Closing.