Erdogan disputes Treaty of Lausanne, prompting response from Athens - Is War coming?

[Ulmita]

Last night, the Turkish PM Erdogan disputed the treaty of lausanne which basically set the borders of Turkey. Immediately after the Turkish military issued two NOTAM which reserved half of the Aegean for military exercises.


This is an article i found in English:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan caused displeasure in Athens on Thursday by indicating that Ankara “gave away” Aegean islands to Greece under the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923, the pact that defined the borders of modern Turkey following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.
In a speech to regional officials in Ankara, Erdogan appeared to express his regret for the border decisions imposed by the pact. “Some tried to deceive us by presenting Lausanne as victory,” he said.

“In Lausanne, we gave away the islands that you could shout across to,” he said, referring to Greek islands located in the Aegean Sea close to the Turkish coastline.
Reacting to Erdogan’s comments, a Greek Foreign Ministry source remarked that “everyone should respect the Treaty of Lausanne,” noting that it is “a reality in the civilized world which no one, including Ankara, can ignore.”
The same source indicated that the Turkish leader’s comments were likely geared for domestic consumption.
While making clear his displeasure with the Treaty of Lausanne, Erdogan indicated during his speech that those who attempted a coup against Turkey in July would have imposed a far worse state of affairs.

“If this coup had succeeded, they would have given us a treaty that would have made us long for Sevres,” he said, referring to the pact that preceded the Treaty of Lausanne in 1920, abolishing the Ottoman Empire.
“We are still struggling about what the continental shelf will be, and what will be in the air and the land. The reason for this is those who sat at the table for that treaty. Those who sat there did not do [us] justice, and we are reaping those troubles right now,” he said.
Erdogan’s comments come amid reports that Ankara is pushing for the abolition of NATO patrols in the Aegean that have been contributing to curbing illegal migration.

According to sources, Ankara made an official request for the termination of the patrols earlier this month at a session of the North Atlantic Council, noting that the migrant influx has slowed considerably in recent months.

These are the two NOTAM:

Data Current as of: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 20:28:00 UTC
LTBB ISTANBUL/SEHIR-CITY,FIR,ACC,FIC,ATFMU
A4248/16 - NAVIGATIONAL WARNING TO ALL CONCERNED:
THIS NOTAM IS ISSUED TO CLARIFY THE NOTAM A2077/16 LGGGYNYX ISSUED
BY GREEK CAA.
THE NOTAM A2077/16 ISSUED BY GREEK CAA CONSTITUES A BREACH OF
GREECE'S TREATY OBLIGATIONS PERTAINING TO THE DEMILITARIZED STATUS
OF EASTERN AEGEAN ISLANDS UNDER 'THE 1914 SIX POWERS' DECISION AND
'THE 1923 LAUSANNE PEACE TREATY (WITH ITS ANNEX,THE CONVENTION
RELATING TO THE REGIME OF THE STRAITS)AND 'THE 1947 PARIS PEACE
TREATY'.SEMADIREK (SEMOTHRACE),IPSARA
(PSARA),SAKIZ (CHIOS), AHIKERYA
(NICARIA),KERPE(SCARPANTO),ISTANBULYA(STAMPALIA) MENTIONED IN THE
NOTAM AT REFERENCE HAS A DEMILITARIZED STATUS.
THUS SEMADIREK (SEMOTHRACE),IPSARA (PSARA),SAKIZ (CHIOS), AHIKERYA
(NICARIA),KERPE(SCARPANTO),ISTANBULYA(STAMPALIA) AND/OR HER
TERRITORY MUST NOT BE INCLUDED IN ANY SCENARIO/CONCEPT OF ANY
MILITARY TRAINING OR EXERCISE.

03 OCT 05:00 2016 UNTIL 07 OCT 08:00 2016. CREATED:
29 SEP 13:41 2016

A4233/16 - NAVIGATIONAL WARNING TO ALL CONCERNED:
THIS NOTAM IS ISSUED TO CLARIFY THE NOTAM A2088/16 LGGGYNYX ISSUED
BY GREEK CAA.
THE NOTAM A2088/16 ISSUED BY GREEK CAA CONSTITUES A BREACH OF
GREECE'S TREATY OBLIGATIONS PERTAINING TO THE DEMILITARIZED STATUS
OF EASTERN AEGEAN ISLANDS UNDER 'THE 1914 SIX POWERS' DECISION AND
'THE 1923 LAUSANNE PEACE TREATY (WITH ITS ANNEX,THE CONVENTION
RELATING TO THE REGIME OF THE STRAITS)AND 'THE 1947 PARIS PEACE
TREATY'.SAKIZ (CHIOS),RODOS(RHODES) MENTIONED IN THE NOTAM AT
REFERENCE HAS A DEMILITARIZED STATUS.
THUS SAKIZ (CHIOS),RODOS(RHODES) AND/OR HER TERRITORY MUST NOT BE
INCLUDED IN ANY SCENARIO/CONCEPT OF ANY MILITARY TRAINING OR
EXERCISE. 02 OCT 11:00 2016 UNTIL 06 OCT 19:00 2016. CREATED: 29 SEP 12:51 2016
A3921/16 - NAVIGATIONAL WARNING TO ALL CONCERNED:

THIS NOTAM IS ISSUED TO CLARIFY THE A1885/16 NOTAM ISSUED BY GREEK
CAA.THE UNPRECEDENTED AND DEFIANT PRACTICE OF GREECE IN DEFINING 6NM
WIDE TERRITORIAL WATERS AND 10NM NATIONAL AIRSPACE CONTRADICTS WITH
THE INTERNATIONAL LAW AND CONSEQUENTLY VIOLATES THE RIGHT OF FREE
USE OF INTERNATIONAL AIRSPACE.ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL LAW THE
AIRSPACE OVER WHICH A STATE CAN CLAIM COMPETENCE AND EXCLUSIVE
SOVEREIGNTY IS LIMITED TO THAT PORTION WHICH LIES ABOVE ITS
TERRITORY AND THE TERRITORIAL WATERS ADJACENT TO IT.THEREFORE THIS

ILLEGAL PRACTISE OF GREECE IS INVALID AND UNACCEPTABLE TO TURKEY. 16 SEP 05:00
2016 UNTIL 31 OCT 15:00 2016. CREATED: 05 SEP 14:26 2016
A3916/16 - NAVIGATIONAL WARNING TO ALL CONCERNED:
REF IS MADE TO GREEK NOTAM A1878/16 PARAGRAPHS 6.2 AND 6.3
CONCERNING TURKISH NAVY AND AIRFORCE WITHOUT FIRING
EXERCISE(ASFAO) THE UNILATERAL MODIFICATION OF THE ORIGINAL TURKISH
NOTAM REQUESTED IS IN CONTRAVENTION WITH I9CAO RULES.THEREFORE
MILITARY AIRCRAFT PARTICIPATING IN THIS EXERCISE WILL NOT PENETRATE
INTO SIX MILES GREEK TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE AND WILL NOT SUBMIT FLIGHT
PLANS.

TURKEY WILL TAKE ALL NECESSARY MEASURES FOR THE SAFETY OF THE
GENERAL AIR TRAFFIC AS SHE DID IN THE PAST AND IS ALWAYS READY FOR
COOPERATION AND COORDINATION IN THIS RESPECT. 16 SEP 05:00 2016 UNTIL 31 OCT
15:00 2016. CREATED: 05 SEP 11:10 2016

Don't be surprised guys if you hear on of these days that we shoot down an airplane of theirs or we sunk some of their ships. Turks are denying that some of our major islands are ours like Rhodes for example which we have been living for thousands of years. This can't end good.

[Stelio Kontos]

Sultan Erdogan can come and fucking try to take them.

First off, wouldn't that trigger NATO having to defend Greece? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the US chose to side with Turkey in even that bad of a situation. But would the rest of NATO go along with that?

Second, fuck Erdogan and his lap dog loyalists.

[Deleted]

I'd feel bad if the Ottomans were to invade the birth place of the Western civilization again. Fuck you Erdogan, you have no rights on Greece.

I hope NATO will stand with Greece there.

[Ulmita]

Sultan Erdogan can come and fucking try to take them.

First off, wouldn't that trigger NATO having to defend Greece? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the US chose to side with Turkey in even that bad of a situation. But would the rest of NATO go along with that?

Second, fuck Erdogan and his lap dog loyalists.

Turkey is in NATO too so no, NATO wouldn't help. EU though is a different matter.

[Cybran]

The mangy dog is barking again. He won't do anything.

His soldiers are busy getting killed in Syria by Kurds.

[Deleted]

Last night, the Turkish PM Erdogan disputed the treaty of lausanne which basically set the borders of Turkey. Immediately after the Turkish military issued two NOTAM which reserved half of the Aegean for military exercises.


This is an article i found in English:



These are the two NOTAM:



Don't be surprised guys if you hear on of these days that we shoot down an airplane of theirs or we sunk some of their ships. Turks are denying that some of our major islands are ours like Rhodes for example which we have been living for thousands of years. This can't end good.

Meh

Sounds like he just wants to get Europeans out of the way so he more easily can flood the continent with rapefugees.
This talk of treaties is just a mask...

- - - Updated - - -

I'd feel bad if the Ottomans were to invade the birth place of the Western civilization again. Fuck you Erdogan, you have no rights on Greece.

I hope NATO will stand with Greece there.

Like they did with Cyprus?

[Deleted]

When leaders fail, they sometimes create new problems what they can solve better.

[Deleted]

Why would a NATO member attack another NATO member?

Sounds like suicice too btw.

[ati87]

Is their any other non Greek source conforming any of this because when I google this only greek English sites

The only reason why people outside turkey hate Erdogan is because they can put a face and name on somebody thats Muslim and then spout a ton of hatred.

[Ulmita]

Is their any other non Greek source conforming any of this because when I google this only greek English sites

The only reason why people outside turkey hate Erdogan is because they can put a face and name on somebody thats Muslim and then spout a ton of hatred.

are you a turk?

I am asking because his speech is uploaded on youtube:

[Slant]

Sultan Erdogan can come and fucking try to take them.

First off, wouldn't that trigger NATO having to defend Greece? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the US chose to side with Turkey in even that bad of a situation. But would the rest of NATO go along with that?

Second, fuck Erdogan and his lap dog loyalists.

I think nobody knows what this will do to NATO. For the past decades NATO has stayed out of Greek/Turkish relations and hoped the fuck situations would resolve themselves. So far, so good.

[ati87]

are you a turk?

I am asking because his speech is uploaded on youtube:

Dual citizen and never voted for him and don't care so much about Turkish politics except when people take stuff out of context |(because just like now it isn't a honest discussion just nation/religion/race bashing)

First he starts of with the following: ''they forced this treaty on us saying it would be good''
2e he talks about how it was turkish land and properties that belong to ''us'' and that still stand today
3e he talks about current political talks
4e he talks about the recent coup

He doesn't say anything related to ''we don't acknowledge the current treaty and going to dispute this'' so first the titel itself is misleading and 2e the response of the greek ministers is mostly based around his fantasies.


Everything he says is in the context of the Coup and the possible consequences and not in the context of lets dissolve the current borders because of XYZ.

[Ulmita]

Dual citizen and never voted for him and don't care so much about Turkish politics except when people take stuff out of context |(because just like now it isn't a honest discussion just nation/religion/race bashing)

First he starts of with the following: ''they forced this treaty on us saying it would be good''
2e he talks about how it was turkish land and properties that belong to ''us'' and that still stand today
3e he talks about current political talks
4e he talks about the recent coup

He doesn't say anything related to ''we don't acknowledge the current treaty and going to dispute this'' so first the titel itself is misleading and 2e the response of the greek ministers is mostly based around his fantasies.


Everything he says is in the context of the Coup and the possible consequences and not in the context of lets dissolve the current borders because of XYZ.

Did you miss the NOTAM part that i linked? You guys reserved half of our Aegean.

[Independent voter]

He's just like Duterte in the Philippines, wants to appear strong.

What do you do if two NATO countries attack each other?

[ati87]

Did you miss the NOTAM part that i linked? You guys reserved half of our Aegean.

thats like a totally different subject that has nothing to do with disputing the treaty of XYZ

[Slant]

Dual citizen and never voted for him and don't care so much about Turkish politics except when people take stuff out of context |(because just like now it isn't a honest discussion just nation/religion/race bashing)

First he starts of with the following: ''they forced this treaty on us saying it would be good''
2e he talks about how it was turkish land and properties that belong to ''us'' and that still stand today
3e he talks about current political talks
4e he talks about the recent coup

He doesn't say anything related to ''we don't acknowledge the current treaty and going to dispute this'' so first the titel itself is misleading and 2e the response of the greek ministers is mostly based around his fantasies.


Everything he says is in the context of the Coup and the possible consequences and not in the context of lets dissolve the current borders because of XYZ.

Sounds an awful lot like "They forced Versailles on us" and "Alsace-Lorraine is our land" just before annexing it. But what do I know, history never repeats itself, right?

[ati87]

Sounds an awful lot like "They forced Versailles on us" and "Alsace-Lorraine is our land" just before annexing it. But what do I know, history never repeats itself, right?

And wasn't it forced treaty? The Ottoman empire didn't dissolve itself

And 2e part is your right wing fantasies that you don't have any proof to back up your claim.

[Slant]

And wasn't it forced treaty? The Ottoman empire didn't dissolve itself

And 2e part is your right wing fantasies that you don't have any proof to back up your claim.

Just like Versailles was forced onto Germany and the German Empire didn't dissolve itself... you keep talking and I keep seeing parallels. The coup that just happened? Read up on the Kristallnacht. Give me something else... it's really too easy. The nationalist direction Erdogan is having? The Kurds he's supressing? What else can you give me that I can't draw a parallel from?

[Hilyos]

Hey guys, it seems like you are a bit confused about Erdogan and it is really natural cause you didin't born in Turkey. He says those things not because Turkey is gonna invade greek islands or something. He is saying those things because Treaty of Lausanne was a big victory for the new turkey and atatürk. He is an extreme conservatist and in turkey, conservatists and seculars are in a conflict for lots of years. So he basicly hates Atatürk and he is saying that '' someone tried to show that lausanne was a big victory''. So shortly he is saying this because he is trying to piss of secular side of turkey and until this day nobody could say that in Turkey. Now he is saying that '' look i am this powerful that i can even say bad things about atatürk''. So nothing to be worry about for you, just inside issues about turkey. Sorry for bad english.

Also the treaty of sevres was forced onto ottoman empire. You can google it and see how bad that treaty for ottoman empire. After that atatürk started the independance war of turkey while the sultan of the empire was running away. And then we got the treaty of lausanne so it is a big victory.

[ati87]

Just like Versailles was forced onto Germany and the German Empire didn't dissolve itself... you keep talking and I keep seeing parallels. The coup that just happened? Read up on the Kristallnacht. Give me something else... it's really too easy. The nationalist direction Erdogan is having? The Kurds he's supressing? What else can you give me that I can't draw a parallel from?

Really going the Nazi argument this quick after all of the Golden Dawn crap that's happening in greece? it's still page bloody page 1 so don't start with the nazi crap this quick.

Again this is a failure of a argument because you have no actual proof to back up your claims, how big of a mental stretch did you just do to draw parels between the coup and a event that destroyed Jewish Businesses?