Necrotic Strike nerf is stupid

[Eruntien]

The recent nerf on PTR to nercrotic strike is completely ridiculous. DK's have been struggling this expansion after the constant nerfs but this would legitimately kill the class in PVP, why would anyone bring a DK if they do not have necrotic strike, at that point they are just a shit warrior in both 3's and RBG'S.

[GodEmperor]

They'll probably revert the nerf. Even Blizz can't be so dumb that they nerf an ability that wasn't too good in the first place.

[meatfresh]

Could you guys provide a link to this nerf you speak of?

[GodEmperor]

Could you guys provide a link to this nerf you speak of?

Necrotic Strike (New) A vicious strike that deals (150% of weapon damage) Plague damage, and inflicts a Necrotic Wound, absorbing the next [ 1,000% of AP ] healing received by the target. Unholy DeathKnight - Tier 5 PvP Talent. 1 Runes. Melee range. Instant. 45 sec cooldown.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...TR-Build-22685

Basically a ~220k absorb on a 45 sec CD compared to a 130k absorb without a CD that we have right now.

[Deleted]

This is not the only stupid thing in WoW pvp design. At this point they are just asking to be spit on

[Deleted]

UH Dks absolutely have no mobility, in competitive pvp we are using Castigator. We lack CC, our disease gets dispelled easily, UH is only somewhat viable in 3s but with a lot of coordination and timing with partners. Other two talents in that row are absolute crap, Unholy mutation does close to no dmg and only applies 50% when disease is dispelled (some enemy classes can actually get dmg boost from slimes like DH) also its duration is getting nerfed by half, Reanimation is a trap talent, zombie spawns 20yard away from the target and moves incredibly slow, also got 5 hp. Not even a retarded money would get stunned by Reanimation, only way to stun using it would be DK moving to the Zombie then using DG to pull the target to the zombie but that would mean wasting our precious DG. Currently UH is a melee affliction lock without dispel penalty dots, CC, or the survivability.

My guess is the nerf is cause of RBG, we are already not viable in 2s cause of our lack or mobility. If the nerfs go live then we wont be viable in 3s either. If anything Uh should have its mobility buffed, they even took away our 15% movement speed.

DKs have always been the slowest class but in the past we used to have more survivability and anti cc. Look ar Ret they get 3 trinkets (pvp trinket, Ashbringer provides another and bubble), also bubble and hand of protection have no dmg penalty while corpse shield does. Ret gets 2 additional defensives from talents plus self heal and more mobility than UH. Warriors got some nerfs and now their Dmg is on par with us. But even they got more anti CC and survivality than DKs. 30 sec fear breaker, spell reflect that reflects 3 spells, bladestom, 100% parry during die by sword. They also get on demand 20% dmg reduction with 10% reduced dmg output. And they provide mortal wound debuff. While we lost our offensive dispel.

The only reason DKs can even play 3s is because of Necrotic strike and our Soul reaper, stun and Apocalypse abilities lines up with Warrior's pain train talents which is a 45 sec burst CD for teammates. What Blizzard should do is balance RBG and arena separately.

[GodEmperor]

Was painful to watch the DKs in the tournament yesterday other than the one game where Frost did insane damage. Stuck in roots, sitting full CCs, slowly walking towards the target trying to put in some damage while everybody else runs around like madmen. None of the unholy's even used Necrotic Strike yesterday and yet Blizz decides to nerf it.

[Deleted]

Yeah its pretty painful to catch frost mages with double blink and double nova since we don't often pick the stun talent. Double grip is good but its no way a solution to this lack of mobility. As frost DK I spend 50% of my runes with chain of ices to have a slight chance of catching up to someone. At least give us strong defensives CD, we don't have those, its pretty insulting. PVE wise I enjoy DKs far more, but its not a pvp class anymore

[chase_the_mofo]

UH is at least viable in PVP, frost is garbage

[Kithelle]

Yeah its pretty painful to catch frost mages with double blink and double nova since we don't often pick the stun talent. Double grip is good but its no way a solution to this lack of mobility. As frost DK I spend 50% of my runes with chain of ices to have a slight chance of catching up to someone. At least give us strong defensives CD, we don't have those, its pretty insulting. PVE wise I enjoy DKs far more, but its not a pvp class anymore

I really think the devs really have no idea what the word *balance* means anymore...they have mad so many stupid decisions and tossed away some good ideas...their idea on how to balance unholy and frost more is to just nerf unholy even though it's not like unholy is top tier.

They take away our 15% movement speed bonus...they did the same for ret...except ret gets standard and pvp talents that give bonuses to movement or slowing power. We aren't allowed any speed yet there are tons of other melee specs jumping all over the place...so they have lighter armor? So? Armor doesn't mean a whole lot in pvp...especially when every class except warrior has multiple elemental damage abilities, but warrior have great mobility and cc.

I have to wonder...if they're just inept or do they not like certain classes and just clearly showing their biases?

[ChaosTheory375]

Reading some of ghost crawlers tweets actually shed some light on why a few classes are the way they are. During his time at blizzard when classes were brought up for pvp balancing, the devs at blizzard were quick to defend their classes, if something was wrong, they would quickly point out why that would be a bad thing to nerf. So changes we're never really made to those classes. It's pretty great to play a class that Devs play, because you'll never be in a bad spot.

[Tyrannica]

Yeah its pretty painful to catch frost mages with double blink and double nova since we don't often pick the stun talent. Double grip is good but its no way a solution to this lack of mobility. As frost DK I spend 50% of my runes with chain of ices to have a slight chance of catching up to someone. At least give us strong defensives CD, we don't have those, its pretty insulting. PVE wise I enjoy DKs far more, but its not a pvp class anymore

lol'd

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19H.html

can't find any dk spec in PvE.

http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&re...200&ladder=3v3

Almost non-viable in 3s, what is not really a surprise in arenas.

http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&re...200&ladder=RBG

low end in rbgs previously the class was top tier in rbgs, no matter if uh or frost.

in all cases frost does not even exists!


Waiting for the MASSIVE buffs to come. ;>

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I have to wonder...if they're just inept or do they not like certain classes and just clearly showing their biases?

i watched the anti-dk bias since S11/end of cata, the last great buff to survival was in s10, when deathstrike restored baseline 20% hp for frost and uh. All other new survival buffs since mop were too weak at launch and only got buffed after the com made some pressure on blizzard!

Still they forged frostmourne and build a massive Arthas statue in asia just recently!

Maybe the Blizzard people are just really nuts?

[Snegovik]

DKs have always been the slowest class but in the past we used to have more survivability and anti cc. Look ar Ret they get 3 trinkets (pvp trinket, Ashbringer provides another and bubble), also bubble and hand of protection have no dmg penalty while corpse shield does. Ret gets 2 additional defensives from talents plus self heal and more mobility than UH. Warriors got some nerfs and now their Dmg is on par with us. But even they got more anti CC and survivality than DKs. 30 sec fear breaker, spell reflect that reflects 3 spells, bladestom, 100% parry during die by sword. They also get on demand 20% dmg reduction with 10% reduced dmg output. And they provide mortal wound debuff. While we lost our offensive dispel.

Well lets be Honest Ret has only 1 trinket. The ashbringer trickets 1st cc, so it can be anything like frost nova or root, and it has 2min cd. Bubble? Most rets run auto bubble, hence, we do not even press it. You can use your ONLY non-dispellable D-cds to score a kill but if you don;t you are dead. Also Dk's mobility is better than Ret's mobility in PvP + your diseases can deal dmg @ range, while for Rets our attacks all melee (not counting judgement) + you guys have better tools to stick to a target than Rets.

[Kithelle]

Reading some of ghost crawlers tweets actually shed some light on why a few classes are the way they are. During his time at blizzard when classes were brought up for pvp balancing, the devs at blizzard were quick to defend their classes, if something was wrong, they would quickly point out why that would be a bad thing to nerf. So changes we're never really made to those classes. It's pretty great to play a class that Devs play, because you'll never be in a bad spot.

Yeah...unfortunately that seems to be the way it is...it's their game...they build it how they want and if you don't like it tough...such a lovely dev team. Exactly why PvP gets fucked...because they don't like PvP.

[Pvp guy]

Lol no, DK mobility is the worst. Hands down. So Ashbringer could trinket something weak like a frost nova, but it could also trinket something worthwhile no? As far as auto bubble, well you still have the option to take traditional bubble which I'm sure all DK's would love to have that option. Freedom? Dispellable or not, another thing I'm sure DK's would love to have. 2 steeds is it? DK wraith walk is pretty bad, easily snared, stunned or death gripped back etc. Ret has arguably some of the best self healing plus the potential to burst someone to death in the duration of a stun. DK range is meh imo, they still have to be in melee range to use death strike if they need to, and I may be wrong here ( my apologies if I am ) but DK's playing a ranged build of clawing shadows and epidemic are giving up damage doing so. No one is scared of a melee aff lock. DK can spam chains of ice but you'll resource starve yourself that by the time you actually have some uptime on your target you'll be mostly waiting for runes to regen and auto attacking. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying DK's are shit, but compared to Ret atm it's not even really close imo.

[Deleted]

Well lets be Honest Ret has only 1 trinket. The ashbringer trickets 1st cc, so it can be anything like frost nova or root, and it has 2min cd. Bubble? Most rets run auto bubble, hence, we do not even press it. You can use your ONLY non-dispellable D-cds to score a kill but if you don;t you are dead. Also Dk's mobility is better than Ret's mobility in PvP + your diseases can deal dmg @ range, while for Rets our attacks all melee (not counting judgement) + you guys have better tools to stick to a target than Rets.

Disease gets auto dispelled in Legion, most healers have a pvp talent to dispel disease and poison when healed from any source. Only tools we have for sticking to target are Death Grip 25 sec cd, Wraith walk (70% speed for 3 sec on 45 sec cd), Aphyxiate 45 sec CD, and Chain of ice 70% slow which costs one rune so cant really be spammed.

Now tell me how DK has better mobility than Ret? 25sec CD on hand of freedom, cleanse toxin can clear rogue slows and hunter/DK dots, Divine steed 45 sec CD and 100% movement speed (maybe 120% if it benefits from Heart of Crusader), You can use divine shield on 2 min cd even if you have Divine protection talent. That is so strong, you can use Divine shield when bursting without worrying about cc, also Ashbringer trinket effect works 2 sec after being cced so if snared yourself or your healer can dispel root, poly, fear, so it can be managed to work like a real trinket.

All Dk attacks are melee also except for Death coil and it hits very low dmg, Clawing Shadow is only used in casual pvp (because of CS we even lost our 15% movement speed). Top 200 in US 3s ladder has 10 Rets and 4 UH. But I am not asking for Ret's nerf so don't take this offensively. All I am saying is DK's already need a bit of movement and survival buff but instead they are nerfing us to the ground. If Necrotic strike nerf goes live then we wont be viable anymore.

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Lol no, DK mobility is the worst. Hands down. So Ashbringer could trinket something weak like a frost nova, but it could also trinket something worthwhile no? As far as auto bubble, well you still have the option to take traditional bubble which I'm sure all DK's would love to have that option. Freedom? Dispellable or not, another thing I'm sure DK's would love to have. 2 steeds is it? DK wraith walk is pretty bad, easily snared, stunned or death gripped back etc. Ret has arguably some of the best self healing plus the potential to burst someone to death in the duration of a stun. DK range is meh imo, they still have to be in melee range to use death strike if they need to, and I may be wrong here ( my apologies if I am ) but DK's playing a ranged build of clawing shadows and epidemic are giving up damage doing so. No one is scared of a melee aff lock. DK can spam chains of ice but you'll resource starve yourself that by the time you actually have some uptime on your target you'll be mostly waiting for runes to regen and auto attacking. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying DK's are shit, but compared to Ret atm it's not even really close imo.

Clawing shadow does only 75% of its dmg in pvp plus cant use it with necrotic build, pretty much its not worthwhile in high rated arena. Epidemic is really nice in RBGs. Also UH burst takes a lot of set up compared to other classes. Whats frustrating is playing UH in arena is a lot more difficult, bursting and sticking to target properly but other classes can just face roll on the keyboard and achive the same result. Its not rewarding to play UH in arena anymore.

[Deleted]

Well lets be Honest Ret has only 1 trinket. The ashbringer trickets 1st cc, so it can be anything like frost nova or root, and it has 2min cd. Bubble? Most rets run auto bubble, hence, we do not even press it. You can use your ONLY non-dispellable D-cds to score a kill but if you don;t you are dead. Also Dk's mobility is better than Ret's mobility in PvP + your diseases can deal dmg @ range, while for Rets our attacks all melee (not counting judgement) + you guys have better tools to stick to a target than Rets.

Its only better with unholy if you spec into clawing shadows. But mobility wise, ret paladin are better. Hand of freedom, dispell, bubble, spec into double steed, they also have judgment to use from a distance and a 70% slow (not spammable as the frost DK but frost sucks way more then ret)+ 10 yard stun I think?

[Deleted]

Unholy is pretty strong in arena and RBGs. necrotic strike is OP and makes life too easy for UH atm.

[Snegovik]

Its only better with unholy if you spec into clawing shadows. But mobility wise, ret paladin are better. Hand of freedom, dispell, bubble, spec into double steed, they also have judgment to use from a distance and a 70% slow (not spammable as the frost DK but frost sucks way more then ret)+ 10 yard stun I think?

[MENTION=717658]

There is actually exact same discussion on Ret's forums that goes on 10 pages or so >.<, so ill try to outline key points if few lines below =).

1) Ret's freedom can be dispelled, Ret's Holy pony can be snared/slowed down, while UH's (not sure if frost also has it) mobility cd is immune to all snares, can not be dispelled.
2) DKs also have immunity to magic/stuns, while Rets have no any types of un-dispellable immunities.
3) DK's Death Grip has better range and can not be dispelled unlike 10 yard hoj
4) No Ret in PvP specs 2x holy pony, cuz well it sux
5) Judgement is on long cd and does not do nearly as much dmg as diseases, and in response to another guy's post, not every class can dispell diseases.
6) ALL Rets defensive or mobility spells can be dispelled, purged, or SS by mages and used against Rets, i bet DKs dont have to make a macro or /cast AMS /cancel AMS hm? unlike Rets do with SoV, Freedom, BoPs when facing mage, also when facing mage DKs once again can use their mobility cd which can't be snared or AMS to stick to mage or even DG, while Rets have a freedom that gets SS.
7) Dks can almost spam chains of Ice, for Rets its a slow on 30 sec cd... thats like a life time in pvp
8) The fact that an UH dk can actually kite Ret, says it all :P
9) In PvE however, Ret does have a better mobility than DK due to specing 2x Holy Pony, but this is PvP, a totally different beast.
10) our hoj is a 10 yard range, which is a joke...Rets actually have to pop Holy Pony to get to Ehealer, hoj and get back into the fight, or if you sit in a frost nova or roots you literately can not do anything other than caste judgement on 12sec cd that does not do much dmg and its physical
11) Rets do not have dispel =) we used to have it but it was removed after Wrath. We have to spec a pvp talent (which is not base utility) and it gets a friendly target from stuns/horror effects but it does not dispel magic, aka if we sit in frost nova or roots or we are slowed by a mage there is 0 we can do about it

@Irlking

Not every class can cleanse ur dots mate, also being able to deal decent dmg at range is BETTER than not being able to deal any range pressure at all, do you agree? Besides in RBGs you run with UA, so here is ur dispel protection.
Once Again you confuse PvE and PvP, PvP rets do not spec into 2x Holy Pony, because it sux, it can be slowed, snared, cc, unlike DKs, so its never a 100% spreed increase lol unless you are facing bads.

You clearly do not play Ret if you think we should use our only D-cd while bursting, so i cant even comment here. The only time i use bubble as a trinket is when i know i will score a kill for example going for a Priest kill when facing RMP, but it is very very risky, since it is only Ret's D-cd

Ashringers trinket is on 2 min cd and it dispels random crap right away so its almost pointless, healer being able to dispel? If you face RMD 2.2k cr+, amount of CC they put Ret under is insane healer can not dispel even half of it.

For rest of answers to your post refer above. Bottom point a good UH Dk can actually kite Ret, so that itself kinda trumps down your statement. Once again in PvE when you spec as a PvEr and where is no SS/dispell/purge and cc/slows @ Holy Pony, Ret does have better mobility and DKs but in PvP Dks can stick to target better than Rets as well as have better mobility.

[Pvp guy]

All those things you're trying to down play? DK wishes they at least had some of those options. Also, for the amount of burst Ret can put out, Ret uptime on targets is plenty high. DK has worst mobility and I don't know how you're even trying to debate that.