Necrotic Strike nerf is stupid

[Eats Compost]

45 second CD? Jesus Christ, really?

They must just not want Death Knights to be good in PvP at all. Ugh.

[Snegovik]

All those things you're trying to down play? DK wishes they at least had some of those options. Also, for the amount of burst Ret can put out, Ret uptime on targets is plenty high. DK has worst mobility and I don't know how you're even trying to debate that.

we are not talking about burst, we are talking about mobility + range dmg, Dk is in a slightly better position than Ret, even though DK's mobility is also bad, just not as bad as Ret's. I am not debating lol anything, i just brought up few examples in comparing DK's and Ret's mobility tool kit + range kit. Yes over all Ret is n a better spot in Rated Arena than DK, i agree with that, but we were talking about mobility/range dps

[Deleted]

[MENTION=717658]

There is actually exact same discussion on Ret's forums that goes on 10 pages or so >.<, so ill try to outline key points if few lines below =).

1) Ret's freedom can be dispelled, Ret's Holy pony can be snared/slowed down, while UH's (not sure if frost also has it) mobility cd is immune to all snares, can not be dispelled.
2) DKs also have immunity to magic/stuns, while Rets have no any types of un-dispellable immunities.
3) DK's Death Grip has better range and can not be dispelled unlike 10 yard hoj
4) No Ret in PvP specs 2x holy pony, cuz well it sux
5) Judgement is on long cd and does not do nearly as much dmg as diseases, and in response to another guy's post, not every class can dispell diseases.
6) ALL Rets defensive or mobility spells can be dispelled, purged, or SS by mages and used against Rets, i bet DKs dont have to make a macro or /cast AMS /cancel AMS hm? unlike Rets do with SoV, Freedom, BoPs when facing mage, also when facing mage DKs once again can use their mobility cd which can't be snared or AMS to stick to mage or even DG, while Rets have a freedom that gets SS.
7) Dks can almost spam chains of Ice, for Rets its a slow on 30 sec cd... thats like a life time in pvp
8) The fact that an UH dk can actually kite Ret, says it all :P
9) In PvE however, Ret does have a better mobility than DK due to specing 2x Holy Pony, but this is PvP, a totally different beast.
10) our hoj is a 10 yard range, which is a joke...Rets actually have to pop Holy Pony to get to Ehealer, hoj and get back into the fight, or if you sit in a frost nova or roots you literately can not do anything other than caste judgement on 12sec cd that does not do much dmg and its physical
11) Rets do not have dispel =) we used to have it but it was removed after Wrath. We have to spec a pvp talent (which is not base utility) and it gets a friendly target from stuns/horror effects but it does not dispel magic, aka if we sit in frost nova or roots or we are slowed by a mage there is 0 we can do about it

@Irlking

Not every class can cleanse ur dots mate, also being able to deal decent dmg at range is BETTER than not being able to deal any range pressure at all, do you agree? Besides in RBGs you run with UA, so here is ur dispel protection.
Once Again you confuse PvE and PvP, PvP rets do not spec into 2x Holy Pony, because it sux, it can be slowed, snared, cc, unlike DKs, so its never a 100% spreed increase lol unless you are facing bads.

You clearly do not play Ret if you think we should use our only D-cd while bursting, so i cant even comment here. The only time i use bubble as a trinket is when i know i will score a kill for example going for a Priest kill when facing RMP, but it is very very risky, since it is only Ret's D-cd

Ashringers trinket is on 2 min cd and it dispels random crap right away so its almost pointless, healer being able to dispel? If you face RMD 2.2k cr+, amount of CC they put Ret under is insane healer can not dispel even half of it.

For rest of answers to your post refer above. Bottom point a good UH Dk can actually kite Ret, so that itself kinda trumps down your statement. Once again in PvE when you spec as a PvEr and where is no SS/dispell/purge and cc/slows @ Holy Pony, Ret does have better mobility and DKs but in PvP Dks can stick to target better than Rets as well as have better mobility.

[QUOTE=Snegovik]You clearly do not play Ret if you think we should use our only D-cd while bursting, so i cant even comment here. The only time i use bubble as a trinket is when i know i will score a kill for example going for a Priest kill when facing RMP, but it is very very risky, since it is only Ret's D-cd [QUOTE=Snegovik]

Either you didn't understand my comment or you never played DK. Grass is not greener on the other side. DKs are exactly the same, Anti magic shell is our defensive ability and our preemptive magic immunity, (unlike bubble it can't break CC, only stops incoming magic CCs, cant still be stunned). If we use it offensively then we don't have anything for defense. Same thing goes for IceBound Fortitude which is 20% dmg reduction for 8sec and immunity to stun on 3 min CD, Longer than your bubble.

Ashbringer doesn't dispel random crap right away, Read the ability. It dispels after 2 sec, meaning yourself and your healer has a chance to dispel the CC. If your healer cant dispel CC means he is in trouble and Ashbringer gets you out. I would say that's very helpful just needs some skill to manage. You are talking about facing specific comp, what about other 99% of the time? You can't win vs every comp, that's how the game works. Most top players got 55-65% win rate.

Now you are confusing between pve and pvp. UH can spec into Clawing Shadow, which makes Scourge strike range attack but like your Holy ponyx2 its not used in serious arena. For arena we use Castigator talent. Even with clawing shadow you don't gain any speed, just range attack. Also HoJ can be talented to be 20yard and DK stun also has 20yard range (DK stun is a talent also, we basically have no cc). Rets who get kited by UH should delete their character cause Ret and UH have exact same base movement speed. Both got 45sec movement CD (wraith walk and Holy pony). And DKs cant dispel your freedom. (Dks cant dispel anything since our purge was taken away). In arena build our only ranged attack is Death coil which is similar to your Judgement.

If you want to talk about talents Ret has Execution sentence which is ranged, ret can spec into repentance as different form of cc, DKs get one stun and it is a talent, Blade of wrath got 12yard range. You said bubble is your only D that means you don't use Justicar vengeance or Eye for an eye? DKs would love defensives like that.

Another thing I want to mention is Death Grip fails a lot in pvp. There used to be a minor glyph to make it stop failing but it didn't make it to Legion. When a warr is charging if your grip it will fail, when a rogue using Death from above or cloak it will fail, it will fail against a frost DK using pillar of Ice, fail against holy priest using Spirit of Redeemer talent , against a pally who just bubbled or mage ice block, hunter aspect of turtle and so many other things. It fails and now the ability got 25 sec cd.

Let's look at what ret can do, Ret can Hand of protection friendly target, saving them from melee, provides freedom for your healer to escape, heal partners, can provide dmg boost for teammates as blessing of might or blessing of wisdom as mana/HP per sec or kings as small absorb shield. Compared to only thing UH provides as utility is Anti magic zone 60% reduced magic dmg for 5 sec on 2min cd.

You are clearly misinformed about DKs and I don't understand why you want them to get nerfed so aggressively. One of the best DK in the world spoke about DKs needing buff Cerventes. Here is the link http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613181806
I haven't done arenas on my Ret since WoD but I am lvling my ret alt and I do know about the class. I also have 110 WW and arms warr. I have gotten 2100+ on 2s and 3s multi classes in previous seasons.

[Deleted]

45 second CD? Jesus Christ, really?

They must just not want Death Knights to be good in PvP at all. Ugh.

Maybe they try to create a class with a 45 sec GCD for any ability. The slowest gameplay ever

[MechaCThun]

Will it even be worth it once it goes live? I feel like 45 seconds cooldown means absolute jack, unless you are to save NS on somebody at like 20% or below, or going for the kill on a healer when he/she is at like 5-10% health.

Other than that, I can't imagine NS being the best option for that tier anymore.

[GodEmperor]

Will it even be worth it once it goes live? I feel like 45 seconds cooldown means absolute jack, unless you are to save NS on somebody at like 20% or below, or going for the kill on a healer when he/she is at like 5-10% health.

Other than that, I can't imagine NS being the best option for that tier anymore.

Necrotic Strike is already not that good. If you for example pick the bursting sores with Castigator, Scourge Strike absolutely blows away Necrotic Strike unless the target has used heavy Damage reduction. I watched the DKs in tournament and only the Korean DKs used Necrotic Strike and they weren't really very successful with it.

With the 45 sec CD, it's borderline useless might as well forget the whole tier. Everyone will just pick slimes because it's a passive talent that offers a small utility. The last two Tiers are now completely trash except for Crypt Fever which is great but again mostly passive.

I'm pretty sure Blzzard's intention was to buff necrotic Strike since it overlaps a lot with Scourge Strike, while not benefiting from any of the normal talents or artifact trait and the fact that it's supposed to be strong since it's the final talent of the final tier but they somehow managed to come up with the idiotic PTR version.

The problem with the DK community is we just don't whine half as much as the other classes. See WW with FOF nerf and all you saw was thread after thread complaining about it before they reverted it. Same for rets. Anytime blizz tries to nerf Rets, you'll again see so many threads. Meanwhile, DKs have a couple on the forums with barely any feedback. It's like nobody cares not even DKs. Or most DKs just don't care until they put the nerf in.

[Snegovik]

[QUOTE=Irlking;42749612][QUOTE=Snegovik]You clearly do not play Ret if you think we should use our only D-cd while bursting, so i cant even comment here. The only time i use bubble as a trinket is when i know i will score a kill for example going for a Priest kill when facing RMP, but it is very very risky, since it is only Ret's D-cd

Either you didn't understand my comment or you never played DK. Grass is not greener on the other side. DKs are exactly the same, Anti magic shell is our defensive ability and our preemptive magic immunity, (unlike bubble it can't break CC, only stops incoming magic CCs, cant still be stunned). If we use it offensively then we don't have anything for defense. Same thing goes for IceBound Fortitude which is 20% dmg reduction for 8sec and immunity to stun on 3 min CD, Longer than your bubble.

Ashbringer doesn't dispel random crap right away, Read the ability. It dispels after 2 sec, meaning yourself and your healer has a chance to dispel the CC. If your healer cant dispel CC means he is in trouble and Ashbringer gets you out. I would say that's very helpful just needs some skill to manage. You are talking about facing specific comp, what about other 99% of the time? You can't win vs every comp, that's how the game works. Most top players got 55-65% win rate.

Now you are confusing between pve and pvp. UH can spec into Clawing Shadow, which makes Scourge strike range attack but like your Holy ponyx2 its not used in serious arena. For arena we use Castigator talent. Even with clawing shadow you don't gain any speed, just range attack. Also HoJ can be talented to be 20yard and DK stun also has 20yard range (DK stun is a talent also, we basically have no cc). Rets who get kited by UH should delete their character cause Ret and UH have exact same base movement speed. Both got 45sec movement CD (wraith walk and Holy pony). And DKs cant dispel your freedom. (Dks cant dispel anything since our purge was taken away). In arena build our only ranged attack is Death coil which is similar to your Judgement.

If you want to talk about talents Ret has Execution sentence which is ranged, ret can spec into repentance as different form of cc, DKs get one stun and it is a talent, Blade of wrath got 12yard range. You said bubble is your only D that means you don't use Justicar vengeance or Eye for an eye? DKs would love defensives like that.

Another thing I want to mention is Death Grip fails a lot in pvp. There used to be a minor glyph to make it stop failing but it didn't make it to Legion. When a warr is charging if your grip it will fail, when a rogue using Death from above or cloak it will fail, it will fail against a frost DK using pillar of Ice, fail against holy priest using Spirit of Redeemer talent , against a pally who just bubbled or mage ice block, hunter aspect of turtle and so many other things. It fails and now the ability got 25 sec cd.

Let's look at what ret can do, Ret can Hand of protection friendly target, saving them from melee, provides freedom for your healer to escape, heal partners, can provide dmg boost for teammates as blessing of might or blessing of wisdom as mana/HP per sec or kings as small absorb shield. Compared to only thing UH provides as utility is Anti magic zone 60% reduced magic dmg for 5 sec on 2min cd.

You are clearly misinformed about DKs and I don't understand why you want them to get nerfed so aggressively. One of the best DK in the world spoke about DKs needing buff Cerventes. Here is the link http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613181806
I haven't done arenas on my Ret since WoD but I am lvling my ret alt and I do know about the class. I also have 110 WW and arms warr. I have gotten 2100+ on 2s and 3s multi classes in previous seasons.

I never said "grass is greener" i know DK also have a crap mobility, difference you guys have a slightly better uptime.

Unlike your D-cds, bubble can be dispelled, and honestly your statement below that Rets can use bubble during burst time... 99.99% Ret will never use it like that >.< so you cant compare 1 in a thousand chance as a "viable" trinket.

I know ashbringer tooltip well, thank you very much, what i meant is a random cc spamable spell like polly or clone, will get rid of it early in a game. Also IF you plaid Ret, ud know that Rets do not spec that talent until very very end, otherwise its a dps lose, so once again most Rets, including myself, do not have it at this point.

If i wanted to talk about non-viable things i would, but it would be waste of time, so why bring up ES?

I said that bubble is our only real D-cds, since SoV can be dispelled/ss/purged, and once again no1 is using E4E, plz stop just picking non-viable talents, they are not viable for a reason.

Maybe DG is buggy but still better than our 10 yard magic stun on 60 sec cd that can be dispelled + u guys got chains of ice on much shorter cd than our 30 sec HoH, which DK can re-apply but Rets cant.

I know what a Ret can do, i am Glad Ret , my point i was only discussing mobility/range pressure in a viable spec above. Also i did state that Rets are better atm (for once) than DKs in rated arena.

"You are clearly misinformed about DKs and I don't understand why you want them to get nerfed so aggressively. One of the best DK in the world spoke about DKs needing buff Cerventes" Sir, please do not stick non-related comments to my posts, i never said DKs should be nerfed, actually the opposite in my posts above i hinted that DKs need a buff.

And you picked a wrong DPS Class to compel about need of a buff, the BEST Rets in the world spoke that Rets needed a buff for past 3 xpacs, yet Blizzard left us in the shade. DKs were strong border line OP all WOD, no need to panic, u guys will be fixed.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=Snegovik;42759576][QUOTE=Irlking;42749612]

You clearly do not play Ret if you think we should use our only D-cd while bursting, so i cant even comment here. The only time i use bubble as a trinket is when i know i will score a kill for example going for a Priest kill when facing RMP, but it is very very risky, since it is only Ret's D-cd

I never said "grass is greener" i know DK also have a crap mobility, difference you guys have a slightly better uptime.

Unlike your D-cds, bubble can be dispelled, and honestly your statement below that Rets can use bubble during burst time... 99.99% Ret will never use it like that >.< so you cant compare 1 in a thousand chance as a "viable" trinket.

I know ashbringer tooltip well, thank you very much, what i meant is a random cc spamable spell like polly or clone, will get rid of it early in a game. Also IF you plaid Ret, ud know that Rets do not spec that talent until very very end, otherwise its a dps lose, so once again most Rets, including myself, do not have it at this point.

If i wanted to talk about non-viable things i would, but it would be waste of time, so why bring up ES?

I said that bubble is our only real D-cds, since SoV can be dispelled/ss/purged, and once again no1 is using E4E, plz stop just picking non-viable talents, they are not viable for a reason.

Maybe DG is buggy but still better than our 10 yard magic stun on 60 sec cd that can be dispelled + u guys got chains of ice on much shorter cd than our 30 sec HoH, which DK can re-apply but Rets cant.

I know what a Ret can do, i am Glad Ret , my point i was only discussing mobility/range pressure in a viable spec above. Also i did state that Rets are better atm (for once) than DKs in rated arena.

"You are clearly misinformed about DKs and I don't understand why you want them to get nerfed so aggressively. One of the best DK in the world spoke about DKs needing buff Cerventes" Sir, please do not stick non-related comments to my posts, i never said DKs should be nerfed, actually the opposite in my posts above i hinted that DKs need a buff.

And you picked a wrong DPS Class to compel about need of a buff, the BEST Rets in the world spoke that Rets needed a buff for past 3 xpacs, yet Blizzard left us in the shade. DKs were strong border line OP all WOD, no need to panic, u guys will be fixed.

You keep saying DKs have better uptime but explain to me how? You say UH can kite Ret explain to me how? You are saying bubble gets dispelled and only one class in the entire game now can dispel bubble now, also if you play rated than you know your partners should interrupt priest's mass dispel.

You are the one keep bringing up non viable builds for as in range attacks so I wanted to show you yours. Also there is no such things as nonviable build, you have to switch up talents based on team comps. Also you have said nothing about Rets having so much more utility than DKs. How is that fair? You have a ton more utility, same or more CC, and similar moment.

Your stun isn't on 1 min if you take the talent, if you take another talent then you got 2 CC. While Dk are stuck with just 1 stun as talent. I agree our ability to apply Chain of ice is one of the advantage over Ret but in current meta Chain of ice is useless. Most melee can easily remove slows, so chain of ice pretty much works on other DK or warr. Also it has very high resource cost, spamming chain of ice would mean no dmg.

WoD second season was the worst time for DKs in pvp. We were the least represented class in pvp above 2k ratings, along with monks. But in season 3 got buffed and came back.

Sir if you want DKs to get buffed then why do you keep derailing the thread. This thread is about DK problems in pvp but you keep making it about Ret, again i want to say I have no problem with Ret, you guys are doing well that's great, just don't try fuck us over when we are down and asking for buff(or not nerf). My first post in this thread was about comparing DKs to other melee classes. Currently UH in pvp is the slowest class with just DMG, least CC, least utility, only thing we have is healing absorb and now that's getting nerfed as well, also Unholy mutation is getting nerfed in half but that's already crap.

[Snegovik]

[QUOTE=Irlking;42763317][QUOTE=Snegovik;42759576]

You keep saying DKs have better uptime but explain to me how? You say UH can kite Ret explain to me how? You are saying bubble gets dispelled and only one class in the entire game now can dispel bubble now, also if you play rated than you know your partners should interrupt priest's mass dispel.

You are the one keep bringing up non viable builds for as in range attacks so I wanted to show you yours. Also there is no such things as nonviable build, you have to switch up talents based on team comps. Also you have said nothing about Rets having so much more utility than DKs. How is that fair? You have a ton more utility, same or more CC, and similar moment.

Your stun isn't on 1 min if you take the talent, if you take another talent then you got 2 CC. While Dk are stuck with just 1 stun as talent. I agree our ability to apply Chain of ice is one of the advantage over Ret but in current meta Chain of ice is useless. Most melee can easily remove slows, so chain of ice pretty much works on other DK or warr. Also it has very high resource cost, spamming chain of ice would mean no dmg.

WoD second season was the worst time for DKs in pvp. We were the least represented class in pvp above 2k ratings, along with monks. But in season 3 got buffed and came back.

Sir if you want DKs to get buffed then why do you keep derailing the thread. This thread is about DK problems in pvp but you keep making it about Ret, again i want to say I have no problem with Ret, you guys are doing well that's great, just don't try fuck us over when we are down and asking for buff(or not nerf). My first post in this thread was about comparing DKs to other melee classes. Currently UH in pvp is the slowest class with just DMG, least CC, least utility, only thing we have is healing absorb and now that's getting nerfed as well, also Unholy mutation is getting nerfed in half but that's already crap.

1) My fr UH Dk who is multi glad, he can kite Rets pretty well not 100% but good 70% of the time, he uses his toolkit and always keeps on running, he never melees them unless he has to.

2) Did i ever say that i do not prevent MD, i simply compared that Ret's ONLY Real D-Cd can still be MDed and that is why it is so important for us to save our bubble @ all costs, and do not use it on a burst window, because if we do...well guess what any rog/mage team will kill Ret shortly after, while DK's all D-cds can not be dispelled/ss/purged that is why your mobility in pvp is better cuz our freedom can be SS/Dispelled/Purged, our steed can be cc/slowed/dazed. You keep jumping my words cherry picking them out of the contest without every stating your point clearly, maybe can you change it?

3) Sir, i think we need leave aside high end arena, cuz you dont play it, hence i find no point to argue with you about game play @ high end arena, since all Rets @ glad range follow pretty much same core build, NO ret will ever use ES in a good amount of games for a simple good reason and give up FV, so if you say "ES can be used to counter different teams on common match up" i truly have nothing to add to your comment.

4) I would like if you stop cherry picking my words, do not compare apples with watermelons, i am comparing mobility vs mobility + ability to deal range dmg with a viable build, not going "ES" build that no1 uses for a good reason and will amount to a dps lose. Hence, i did not mention utility, dmg, xmog, mount speed because i am not talking about those things, so plz stay on topic.

5) I am talking about base abilities, yes even IF we spec we reduce cd, but a lot of times it is still not 30 sec, also we have to actually get in melee range to build up 3-hps, spend it, to reduce the HoJ cd, now imagine you are fighting a good mage/hunter on open, guess what your Hoj will be 50 sec cd if you are lucky, while DK's grip is always 30 and it also has a nice range which is crucial vs classes like mage/hunter/ww who can kite you easy, because 10 yard range stun is not gonna do much for you. HoH also has a high amount of mana cost, if we could spam it, we would go oom, and i would still would love have an option to spam it, rather have it on 30 sec cd, 30 sec is an eternity in pvp.

6) In wod DK DPS class had a higher representation than Paladin DPS class (this is what we are comparing here, DPS DK vs DPS Paladin), also @ blizzcon DK did very very good as DPS class, much better than Rets. In WOD s1 DKs were so broken /w self heals you could run 2x Frost up to 2.6k in 2s pretty easy. Also walking dead... please do not tell me that Frost Dk was not good in WoD

7) I am not derailing the thread, i just stated that in my Opinion you statement in regards of mobility was not accurate. In PvE Rets do have better mobility but in PvP Dks have a slightly better mobility then Rets. I also added that over all Rets are stronger than DKs at in Rated arena to clarify my statement that i am not saying that Dks are OP and do not need buffs. Hence, not sure why re we having this discussion. Once again i am not trying to fuk any1 over lmao, stop trying to stick me having a problem with Dks getting buffed, hell i think Dks need to get buffed, all i said when it comes to mobility in PvP, Ret atm is the worst DPS class.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=Snegovik;42763541][QUOTE=Irlking;42763317]

1) My fr UH Dk who is multi glad, he can kite Rets pretty well not 100% but good 70% of the time, he uses his toolkit and always keeps on running, he never melees them unless he has to.

2) Did i ever say that i do not prevent MD, i simply compared that Ret's ONLY Real D-Cd can still be MDed and that is why it is so important for us to save our bubble @ all costs, and do not use it on a burst window, because if we do...well guess what any rog/mage team will kill Ret shortly after, while DK's all D-cds can not be dispelled/ss/purged that is why your mobility in pvp is better cuz our freedom can be SS/Dispelled/Purged, our steed can be cc/slowed/dazed. You keep jumping my words cherry picking them out of the contest without every stating your point clearly, maybe can you change it?

3) Sir, i think we need leave aside high end arena, cuz you dont play it, hence i find no point to argue with you about game play @ high end arena, since all Rets @ glad range follow pretty much same core build, NO ret will ever use ES in a good amount of games for a simple good reason and give up FV, so if you say "ES can be used to counter different teams on common match up" i truly have nothing to add to your comment.

4) I would like if you stop cherry picking my words, do not compare apples with watermelons, i am comparing mobility vs mobility + ability to deal range dmg with a viable build, not going "ES" build that no1 uses for a good reason and will amount to a dps lose. Hence, i did not mention utility, dmg, xmog, mount speed because i am not talking about those things, so plz stay on topic.

5) I am talking about base abilities, yes even IF we spec we reduce cd, but a lot of times it is still not 30 sec, also we have to actually get in melee range to build up 3-hps, spend it, to reduce the HoJ cd, now imagine you are fighting a good mage/hunter on open, guess what your Hoj will be 50 sec cd if you are lucky, while DK's grip is always 30 and it also has a nice range which is crucial vs classes like mage/hunter/ww who can kite you easy, because 10 yard range stun is not gonna do much for you. HoH also has a high amount of mana cost, if we could spam it, we would go oom, and i would still would love have an option to spam it, rather have it on 30 sec cd, 30 sec is an eternity in pvp.

6) In wod DK DPS class had a higher representation than Paladin DPS class (this is what we are comparing here, DPS DK vs DPS Paladin), also @ blizzcon DK did very very good as DPS class, much better than Rets. In WOD s1 DKs were so broken /w self heals you could run 2x Frost up to 2.6k in 2s pretty easy. Also walking dead... please do not tell me that Frost Dk was not good in WoD

7) I am not derailing the thread, i just stated that in my Opinion you statement in regards of mobility was not accurate. In PvE Rets do have better mobility but in PvP Dks have a slightly better mobility then Rets. I also added that over all Rets are stronger than DKs at in Rated arena to clarify my statement that i am not saying that Dks are OP and do not need buffs. Hence, not sure why re we having this discussion. Once again i am not trying to fuk any1 over lmao, stop trying to stick me having a problem with Dks getting buffed, hell i think Dks need to get buffed, all i said when it comes to mobility in PvP, Ret atm is the worst DPS class.

1. Don't bring imaginary friends into this discussion. I can say I have a glad Ret friend who kites UH all the time but that wont prove anything. SO give us facts tell me which abilities can a UH use to kite Ret? I would really like to see a list.

2. Dont make stuff up. Glad lvl players change talents all the time to better combat enemy team. Against high mobility classes you will use one talent, against melee another. Your steed can be CCed so can be our Wraith walk. Only Wraith walk cant be slowed but every other form of CC still applies including root and we can not attack during it.

3. Sir you dont play high end arena either I can tell from your comments. So lets not go down the road of insulting each other.

4. I have already listed a few times the DK mobility spells with our basic arena build. UH have one mobility spell Wraith walk thats it nothing else. Our 2 range attacks Death grip and Death coil and Chain of ice ranged slow. Thats all we have nothing else.

6. Check representation right now. Ret still have higher representation than UH above 2k rating. I was specifically talking about WoD season 2 DKs had worst representation. And season one of WoD Rets were gods along with feral druids but season 2 and 3 Rets went down a lot.

[Deleted]

To be fair a DK can kitte any melee class aside from sub rogue. Just spam chain of ice, its not very useful but its kitting at least^^

I love to spam that on stupid demon hunters, they love to jump around but they can't do shit against those chains

- - - Updated - - -

And DK have worst mobility than ret, its a fact.

You forget that hand of freedom is a mobility tool as well, much better than our 45 CD

[GodEmperor]

Just comparing Ret to DK

Mobility -> Ret > DK
Anti Mobility -> DK > Ret
Damage -> More or less same. Pally has better burst with random spike damage that Unholy does not but Unholy brings Necrotic Strike which is getting nerfed. This used to be heavily in favor of DKs but this is no longer the case. I'm talking single target pressure here not padding meters which Unholy can do pretty easily.
CC -> Pally > DK [Unless the DK is a Dark Sim God]
Utility -> Pally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DK (Not even close)
Defensive/Heals -> Pally ~~ DK (Divine Shield, Vengeance Shield, BOP, Flash of Lights for LOS heals is slightly better than Corpse Shield which lasts for 2-3 seconds, IBF, AMS and Death Strike)

Source I play both pally and DK. DK around 1.9k and pally around 1.7k.

Right now Ret is straight out better than DKs everywhere except in anti mobility category where Pallies also for the first time in their life have a 70% slow. But almost all classes can remove slows except Warriors, DH(Also getting a root slow break 7.1), Priests and warlock. So the anti mobility really barely matters.

The damage department is probably going in Frosts favor due to the heavy buffs they're getting, but if this 45 sec Change goes through, Unholy will be left in the dust.

[Snegovik]

-snip-

1) Ok since you being such a baby about my posts, i can say i dueled an UH DK, and he kited me pretty well untill i killed him, but he still kited me

2) Dear Sir, unlike u, i do pvp @ glad lvl, plz tell me which Glad Ret uses ES and Consecration on standard basis, i can say "well Ret's range dps is weak, so ES is good" or " Ret's aoe is weak, so lets use Consecration" any half brained Ret will call me on BS for using those 2 abilities over FV on standart basis. Thats why i am trying to stick to original topic, since there is no point to discuss a high end arena with some1 whose highest cr was 2.1k

3) Sir, all i do is pvp since classic and i can provide my achievements, i am not insulting you, i am stating i do not see a reason to argue with you over high end arena cuz you don't play it. It is like me arguing with a PvEr whats optimal PvE rotation on X Boss, because i don't raid, and i dont have issues admitting i know very little about PvE.

4) I know, and I responded that Personally i would take wrath walk over freedom/steed when fighting mages cuz they can SS freedom.

5) where is 5?

6) Sir, i don't know what to say here really. i posted 3 times already where i said "RET is Better than DKs in rated arena by far" so yes that goes with Rets having a higher representation.

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Just comparing Ret to DK

Mobility -> Ret > DK
Anti Mobility -> DK > Ret

Yes i agree with this split, if you separate mobility and anti-mobility ( I was combining them together an ability to stick to a target) then yes 100% agree with this.

[Deleted]

1) Ok since you being such a baby about my posts, i can say i dueled an UH DK, and he kited me pretty well untill i killed him, but he still kited me

2) Dear Sir, unlike u, i do pvp @ glad lvl, plz tell me which Glad Ret uses ES and Consecration on standard basis, i can say "well Ret's range dps is weak, so ES is good" or " Ret's aoe is weak, so lets use Consecration" any half brained Ret will call me on BS for using those 2 abilities over FV on standart basis. Thats why i am trying to stick to original topic, since there is no point to discuss a high end arena with some1 whose highest cr was 2.1k

3) Sir, all i do is pvp since classic and i can provide my achievements, i am not insulting you, i am stating i do not see a reason to argue with you over high end arena cuz you don't play it. It is like me arguing with a PvEr whats optimal PvE rotation on X Boss, because i don't raid, and i dont have issues admitting i know very little about PvE.

4) I know, and I responded that Personally i would take wrath walk over freedom/steed when fighting mages cuz they can SS freedom.

5) where is 5?

6) Sir, i don't know what to say here really. i posted 3 times already where i said "RET is Better than DKs in rated arena by far" so yes that goes with Rets having a higher representation.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes i agree with this split, if you separate mobility and anti-mobility ( I was combining them together an ability to stick to a target) then yes 100% agree with this.

1. Wow you once dueled an UH dk and he kited you such great insight. You must know everything about UH Dks now. Because he was able to kite you doesnt matter which talents he used, UH must have great mobility.

2. Everyone in MMO-C claims they are glads, your word means jack shit without proof.

3. I should not be arguing with you because you have no idea about UH. Whole point of your argument is because one UH kited you in duel. Do us all a favor and stay away from topics you know nothing about. And sir I have been getting 2200 on WW, DK and arms since MoP so I wouldn't call myself someone who knows nothing about pvp.

4. I didnt mention this last time due to lack of time. Death Grip is close to useless for peeling because it has 25 sec CD and everything class has lower CD movement ability. DG a mage and he will just blink, DG a warr he will charge/ Heroic leap, DG hunter he will disengage, for rogues/DH and monks its just point less cause they got so much mobility. Plus all the failure to grip I mentioned earlier. Chain of Ice gets dispelled all the time. Again WW/DH/Rogues/Mages dont even feel chain of Ice on them.

[Ryzeth]

Not really. What was actually stupid, was them bringing it back in the first place, after the shitstorm it stirred up in Cataclysm when it was first a thing (said storm resulting in its removal).

[Snegovik]

1. Wow you once dueled an UH dk and he kited you such great insight. You must know everything about UH Dks now. Because he was able to kite you doesnt matter which talents he used, UH must have great mobility.

2. Everyone in MMO-C claims they are glads, your word means jack shit without proof.

3. I should not be arguing with you because you have no idea about UH. Whole point of your argument is because one UH kited you in duel. Do us all a favor and stay away from topics you know nothing about. And sir I have been getting 2200 on WW, DK and arms since MoP so I wouldn't call myself someone who knows nothing about pvp.

4. I didnt mention this last time due to lack of time. Death Grip is close to useless for peeling because it has 25 sec CD and everything class has lower CD movement ability. DG a mage and he will just blink, DG a warr he will charge/ Heroic leap, DG hunter he will disengage, for rogues/DH and monks its just point less cause they got so much mobility. Plus all the failure to grip I mentioned earlier. Chain of Ice gets dispelled all the time. Again WW/DH/Rogues/Mages dont even feel chain of Ice on them.

1) dude didnt u read posts by other ppl above who play BOTH Ret and DK, and they stated that DK have better anti mobility than Ret, so i am not sure what you are trying to prove here buddy. Duel wise it is one example i brought out of many xp i shared through rated pvp, which you sir seem to lack knowledge off, since when i said my mate DK who is actually glad unlike you, he has NO issues kitting Rets but you once again jumped on my words saying i am making up stuff just like i made up my glad xp..right lol?

2) here is link to one of my alts, enjoy checking out his achivs http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Cpartan/simple
I don't get what is ur issue here, i stated my opinion (see how it is my opinion) ppl above said similar things about UH being able to kite Ret, and DK having better anti mobility than Ret (this is what i was trying to say all this time), yet i even said i think DKs need a buff, but you liked a enraged nerd you are, kept on jumping on my posts cherry picking individual things, only cuz my opinion does not match of a person about rated pvp who never hit 2.2k, really?

3) you stated above you never hit 2.2k on your DK, i am not here to argue, i based my own opinion based on games i faced in rated arena, while you on other hand did nothing but to argue despite others here agreeing with me, but yes pls sir keep on nerd raging more, its quite entertaining.

4) Just a little tip for you sir so u can break ur 2.2k, you wait for mage to blink 1st before DG or even better you DG healer to melee range for cc or swap. War is melee, you can spam his chains of ice, and so on, if you can't utilize your 30 sec RANGE cc ability, then id afraid to see how youll fail with 60 sec cd stun with only 10 yard range for Rets, see you complaining about DK class and comparing it to Rets, while you know very little about Rets, only thing you stated about rets is that they got freedom and 2x pony (which NO ret specs into), you aslo stated Rets can go ES for anti mobility (once again no Ret specs it) so i am afraid what other disillusion conclusions you will come about Ret lmao. Anyways as much fun as it was watching you nerd raging for my own opinion there is nothing else left to discuss, since you are clearly just butt hurt raging kid over nerfs and taking out your frustration on forums.

but if you wish to continue this, you may PM me, keep this thread clean of your clueless raging spasms, thank you sir.

[Deleted]

1) dude didnt u read posts by other ppl above who play BOTH Ret and DK, and they stated that DK have better anti mobility than Ret, so i am not sure what you are trying to prove here buddy. Duel wise it is one example i brought out of many xp i shared through rated pvp, which you sir seem to lack knowledge off, since when i said my mate DK who is actually glad unlike you, he has NO issues kitting Rets but you once again jumped on my words saying i am making up stuff just like i made up my glad xp..right lol?

2) here is link to one of my alts, enjoy checking out his achivs http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Cpartan/simple
I don't get what is ur issue here, i stated my opinion (see how it is my opinion) ppl above said similar things about UH being able to kite Ret, and DK having better anti mobility than Ret (this is what i was trying to say all this time), yet i even said i think DKs need a buff, but you liked a enraged nerd you are, kept on jumping on my posts cherry picking individual things, only cuz my opinion does not match of a person about rated pvp who never hit 2.2k, really?

3) you stated above you never hit 2.2k on your DK, i am not here to argue, i based my own opinion based on games i faced in rated arena, while you on other hand did nothing but to argue despite others here agreeing with me, but yes pls sir keep on nerd raging more, its quite entertaining.

4) Just a little tip for you sir so u can break ur 2.2k, you wait for mage to blink 1st before DG or even better you DG healer to melee range for cc or swap. War is melee, you can spam his chains of ice, and so on, if you can't utilize your 30 sec RANGE cc ability, then id afraid to see how youll fail with 60 sec cd stun with only 10 yard range for Rets, see you complaining about DK class and comparing it to Rets, while you know very little about Rets, only thing you stated about rets is that they got freedom and 2x pony (which NO ret specs into), you aslo stated Rets can go ES for anti mobility (once again no Ret specs it) so i am afraid what other disillusion conclusions you will come about Ret lmao. Anyways as much fun as it was watching you nerd raging for my own opinion there is nothing else left to discuss, since you are clearly just butt hurt raging kid over nerfs and taking out your frustration on forums.

but if you wish to continue this, you may PM me, keep this thread clean of your clueless raging spasms, thank you sir.

Well good sir I think you are suffering from dementia. Here is your quote "Also Dk's mobility is better than Ret's mobility in PvP + your diseases can deal dmg". I thought before you said you are a glad now its your friend who is a glad? You get kited by UH Dks who has less mobility than you. Sir please dont insult real Ret glads I have great respect for them. You seem to change your words more than Donald Trump. Sorry but not gonna bother reading rest of your post, not worth my time.

[Questdk]

How big is this potentially going to be ?

[Eruntien]

The lat tier is ass, this makes it even worse.

[GodEmperor]

Our feedback was heard. The nerf was reverted boyos. FeelsGood. Now at least our representation won't go lower than the current 4%.