1. #2361
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I don't care about $$ - I more care about wasting my time.

    And it's really a hard sell saying it's better than Wildstar, because Wildstar at least had actual PvE, story, questing, dungeons and all, even if they decided to hide the last part it all behind 500 layers of crap for misguided reasons.

    I'd really like to see their roadmap, as in whether they even intend to add actual PvE or plan to go RvR-ish full steam ahead. So far my outlook is somewhat negative, I can't shake the feeling that this is practically Eve with fantasy skin or at best wannabe DAoC.

    This This this.

    What we do know about the game: They meant it to be full PVP and about 12-18 months ago went and added in PVE and, clearly, they aren't done with any of it.

    We have no roadmap that says what the plans are for this game as far as ANYTHING about content - types of content, focus of development, pacing, etc. No Clue.
    We have no roadmap or rules that says what their real plans are for the PVP FACTION war this game was (orginally) all about. We know how it works right now - and we know there's things to change and balance - but still no real idea what the dev goals are for what the faction war is 'suppose' to look like.
    We have no idea of any of their monetization plans - other than we all know they are coming.

    Until any of the above actually sees the light of day - its hard for me to believe anyone is just taking Amazon 'on faith' that all of the above will not only actually 'work as intended' within whatever 'expected timeline' of release - but that all of the above will be exactly what any one player wants, at all. Much less in any sort of realistic timeline. (Not what they claim the timeline is but what the release timeline actually ends up being, is what I mean lol.)

    And they could design the best MMO PVE content or PVP War ever - and ruin all of it if they put in p2w or "time-saving" microtransations. Everyone else can 'have faith' that 'they won't do that' but uhh... I see nothing, zippo, at all, that says they won't. All I see is a game who's PVE is half-developed (at best) and who's PVP starts at 60 - seems prime candidate for 'pay to hit 60 right now' token in the store but apparently I guess most players still playing are just hoping that won't happen.

    Until we see what this dev company's "norm" is - none of us know what direction, if any, this game will be taking. All we see of this company's "norm" right now is - "Entirely Unprepared" with a dash of "Oopsie - mistake - not everyone here is fully informed."

    I'm glad people are enjoying the game the way it is right now. I'm not saying anything negative about that. But until some actual information on what's coming down the pipeline and the schedule for it - there's also nothing to defend about the game. Because we don't know anything. PVE could be double the content in six months - or it may never change at all. And right now - both are equally possible - because no goals or roadmap or timeline for any of it has been given.

    Not to mention the dynamics of whatever microtransations they are putting in. Because yea - that IS how they will be making the money. It isn't the box-purchase guys that will be supporting this and it was never intended that way. Anyone who wants to believe that 'this will be all they are asking for' is fooling themselves. You can really only blindly hope right now (and that is all it is - blind hope) that only cosmetic fluff will be in the store. I have a sinking feeling; however, that it won't be just pretty fluff.
    Koriani - Guardians of Forever - BM Huntard on TB; Kharmic - Worgen Druid - TB
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    inactive: Frith-Rae - Horizons/Istaria; Koriani in multiple old MMOs. I been around a long time.

  2. #2362
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I struggle to find much of it -_-

    I honestly haven't even looked at the AH at all. Probably should, but I like being self sufficient and hoarding and shit. Also, it's fun when you discover you have a bunch of super valuable stuff you've just been sitting on not realizing it's worth anything.

    I do not play games optimally anymore : |
    Go to Monarch's Bluff and Everfall, the North West area between the two zones. Start climbing mountains. An abundance of iron. Northwest of Reekwater is abundant as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The game needs flightpaths., a slash in azoth costs, higher azoth gain or something to help with travel. You can really get stuck far away from anything and azoth gain is minuscule when you are low. Even once you get 3 houses spread around you could still run low and if you craft you'll run low because you need the perks azoth guarantees.
    It's not too bad once you get around 45+ because you get a lot of azoth and have a few houses by then. You kinda have to "plan" as it were when you go out of town. I usually get Azoth capped and have to actively spend it because I accumulate so much of it.

    I am all about the fast travel in games. I would definitely enjoy mounts in this game, but I would settle for being able to sprint out of combat at least 3x speed. You move like a goddamn turtle in this game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soimu View Post
    The game looks like one of those games that have in game problems created so they can sell a solution later. Like more character slots, more inventory space and azoth, all sold in the store. And my opinion is that it will surely kill the game in the long run. I for one will stop playing it if they add that.
    Storage space is plentiful though. You have tons of it, just not at rank 1 level 1. It's tons of space by the end. Like literally thousands of pounds of storage in every city or your house(s).

    Azoth is overflowing. You get it all the time.

    These aren't really problems, they might seem so but only because some players are low level or don't understand how to use the systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    The Azoth price to fast travel is pretty high. But that's kinda the point of conquering territories. Fast Travelling between territories your faction owns is way, WAY cheaper
    The cost to fast travel is based on your weight and whatever bonuses you are getting from your faction control. It can cost a few hundred or like 30 Azoth to fast travel.

  3. #2363
    People seem surprised that at max level, all there is to do in the pvp game they bought is pvp. What I find interesting is the people bringing up progression over and over. Progression is just a mmo term for the carrot on a stick design to keep playing one endorphin hit after the next. Been so long, most don’t know what to do when the content is player driven and not dev driven.

  4. #2364
    I have no fucking clue why all those pvp mmo that ended up losing users due to lack of late game ptogression never followed the DAOC path of adding pvp xp.

    It was quite fast to get to a decent pvp rank to get the mandatory abilities and ridiculously long after to get less important passive stats but it was enough to keep progression interesting.

  5. #2365
    Herald of the Titans Proskill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I am doing EVERY crafting profession and have yet to run out of storage anywhere.
    elaborate on how u manage to do that
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  6. #2366
    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    elaborate on how u manage to do that
    Craft raw materials into processed materials. Use those to level up crafting professions and then dismantle the stuff you don't need into processed materials for crafting again.

    You're not just supposed to hoard them forever, you burn through them to level crafting.

  7. #2367
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Storage space is plentiful though. You have tons of it, just not at rank 1 level 1. It's tons of space by the end. Like literally thousands of pounds of storage in every city or your house(s).

    Azoth is overflowing. You get it all the time.

    These aren't really problems, they might seem so but only because some players are low level or don't understand how to use the systems.
    Azoth is ok for now but the world will expand and you will need more and more azoth for travelling. If they keep it as it is it will be a problem but we will see.

    I had to use almost all my azoth today just to check some markets and get some materials from some stores in order to craft something.
    Last edited by Soimu; 2021-10-12 at 07:41 PM.

  8. #2368
    Quote Originally Posted by Soimu View Post
    Azoth is ok for now but the world will expand and you will need more and more azoth for travelling. If they keep it as it is it will be a problem but we will see.

    I had to use almost all my azoth today just to check some markets and get some materials from some stores in order to craft something.
    It's not as if upping the cap/how much you earn can't easily be done if they expand the world and make fast travel more necessary. It seems very much designed to be a limited resource you need to choose how you utilize, not something that's always available.

  9. #2369
    Quote Originally Posted by Soimu View Post
    Azoth is ok for now but the world will expand and you will need more and more azoth for travelling. If they keep it as it is it will be a problem but we will see.

    I had to use almost all my azoth today just to check some markets and get some materials from some stores in order to craft something.
    Huh? What do you mean check some markets? That doesn't require travel. Am I misunderstanding you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    elaborate on how u manage to do that
    When I gain rep in a territory, I choose storage space where available. That's it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Craft raw materials into processed materials. Use those to level up crafting professions and then dismantle the stuff you don't need into processed materials for crafting again.

    You're not just supposed to hoard them forever, you burn through them to level crafting.
    I only fully process my materials in my hometown. Otherwise, I just throw that crap in the nearest shed and move on.

  10. #2370
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Apparently not, since you seem to think "endgame content" must necessarily be something "different" than what players are doing during their leveling processes a la raiding etc. It's not, it's simply the things you do at max level to continue progressing your character and, in the context of New World, company/faction control over territory.
    Isn't that one of the issues though? Besides getting newer and better gear New World has no character progression after a certain point. And that certain point comes way sooner than you reach max level. Don't you think this might be problematic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    NW does have a few endgame dungeons and raids.

    How another game does its dungeons and raids doesn't mean others have to do so in the same manner though. It's not really sensible to compare one particular design choice with another in this regard. If I want to make an endgame raid open world or have none at all, that is a valid design choice as long as it is logically consistent with the DDT of the game.
    New World does not have raids. It has some open world elite zones. That's a difference. And there is one "endgame" dungeon and one high-level dungeon that could be considered endgame. New World doesn't even have an option to form groups bigger than 5 players. Think about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    It doesn't have them because it is not classic wow. It focuses on other content.
    Okay, what kind of content?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    i think whats gonna kill this game are those tiny storages lol
    every zone i leveled in is full so far. cant sell, cuz its worth little to nothing. cant craft, cuz literally everything requires iron xddd

    how do u deal with this issue? i just wanna log in, do some quests, have fun with combat and gathering, but here i sit wondering how the fuck to free up my space so nothing goes to waste. this is rly annoying
    That's the problem with a player made economy. It's super easy to totall f* in game economy up. Right now it's f* up because there's too much of everything. As soon as the playerbase drops below a critical amount, there will be shortage and everything will cost too much.

    How a game launches without NPC vendors is beyond me. Like honestly, how is this even possible? No NPC vendors, no mailboxes - in an MMORPG in 2021. Hello?
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  11. #2371
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Isn't that one of the issues though? Besides getting newer and better gear New World has no character progression after a certain point.
    I mean, this literally exists for TONS of MMO's. There is a cap on player power and it can't infinitely increase without additional content providing better drops. A handful of MMO's have longer term character progression like ESO, but overall most don't have systems like you describe. Once you hit max level and finish unlocking skills or whatever the game has, it's gear progression until you hit the gear cap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    And that certain point comes way sooner than you reach max level. Don't you think this might be problematic?
    No, not really. It's fine if there are periods of, "I've gotten the best gear I want and am 'done' for now, I'll wait until the next update to return." which is fine for these games and they predict behaviors like this. Beyond that you can always accumulate and grow your wealth so you're always finaicially set, or simply just enjoy engaging in PvP/PvE for territory control for your faction/company.

    There's no MMO I can think of off the top of my head with "infinite progression" like you sorta imply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    New World does not have raids. It has some open world elite zones. That's a difference. And there is one "endgame" dungeon and one high-level dungeon that could be considered endgame. New World doesn't even have an option to form groups bigger than 5 players. Think about it.
    ...and? Again, NW isn't trying to repeat the same endgame we have across tons of second generation MMO's. That's not a bad thing, it's just "different".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    How a game launches without NPC vendors is beyond me. Like honestly, how is this even possible? No NPC vendors, no mailboxes - in an MMORPG in 2021. Hello?
    Because they want a player driven economy? Why does the game need NPC vendors?

    Edit: Most of your posts seem to boil down to, "This isn't like MMO's I'm familiar with and therefor bad." which is...odd. Most folks would get that the MMO just isn't for them and that's fine, not sure why you stick around to complain that the game that is very much not designed to be like a traditional second generation MMO theme park...isn't a traditional second generation MMO theme park? I mean, folks should know that going in if they did a bit of casual reading about the game before buying it (be an informed consumer!), and if they didn't that's their mistake.

  12. #2372
    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    We have no roadmap that says what the plans are for this game as far as ANYTHING about content - types of content, focus of development, pacing, etc. No Clue.
    To be fair, we know what's coming next: more customization options (the question stands why this wasn't added before launch - cash shop feature?) and the Void Gauntlet weapon. That's their immediate priority after release.

    Then we know what the next zone will be and look like: Brimstone Sands with an Egyptian aesthetic - gameplay wise it's the same stuff as Ebonscale and Reekwater though, so copy & paste content.

    But besides that you're right, there basically is no roadmap for this game. And I think it's pretty obvious why: they haven't done that yet. And let me explain why: they don't know if it'll be worth it to produce more content than that. Warhammer Online was huge after launch, but rapidly plummeted. The game got one content patch and half another one before it sailed towards maintenance mode. With the monetization model Amazon did us as players a favor, but for themselves it's a major problem. Selling ugly cosmetics in a game where customization itself is outdated and ugly won't take off. So right now it's a game of numbers: do we produce more content or do we hand out what we produced before and that's it?

    Amazon Gaming Studios wasted hundreds of millions of $ on their failed games. They somehow need to return that investment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Edit: Most of your posts seem to boil down to, "This isn't like MMO's I'm familiar with and therefor bad." which is...odd. Most folks would get that the MMO just isn't for them and that's fine, not sure why you stick around to complain that the game that is very much not designed to be like a traditional second generation MMO theme park...isn't a traditional second generation MMO theme park? I mean, folks should know that going in if they did a bit of casual reading about the game before buying it (be an informed consumer!), and if they didn't that's their mistake.
    Amazon postulated that it's exactly designed to be like that, yet their design approach is a failure. They deliberately turned this into yet another themepark MMORPG, but forgot to add content. They deliberately turned it from a promising PvP-MMORPG into yet another lame PvE-MMORPG without content. That's how this game was marketed as well. So, is the problem on my side or is the problem AGS's vision for the game vs. how the game actually turned out to be?

    I stick around because it's an interesting case study how a MASSIVE company in 2021 did learn nothing of the past two decades.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  13. #2373
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    New World does not have raids. It has some open world elite zones. That's a difference. And there is one "endgame" dungeon and one high-level dungeon that could be considered endgame. New World doesn't even have an option to form groups bigger than 5 players. Think about it.
    Those are raids. Traditionally those are raiding zones. What you mean is they do not have instanced, structured raiding. Which is a design choice. They don't have to ever add that or do as some other game did.

    There are 3 end-game dungeons.

  14. #2374
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    And I think it's pretty obvious why: they haven't done that yet. And let me explain why: they don't know if it'll be worth it to produce more content than that.
    This is reaching pretty damned far. Not every game has, or needs roadmaps. They can be great, but they can also be risks if you end up delaying something and players freak out about "YOU LIED!" despite the roadmap being a "here's what we're planning, this isn't a hard promise because we can't predict the future and development is difficult."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Warhammer Online was huge after launch, but rapidly plummeted. The game got one content patch and half another one before it sailed towards maintenance mode.
    And...? I mean, many MMO's have launched and struggled, none of that has anything to do with roadmaps or not. Many MMO's have launched and been just fine without day/month 1 roadmaps. I know we all have tons more information accessible nowadays, but the expectation that developers will have a functionally open development process where they tell players everything they're doing and everything they want to do is like...weird and not normal at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Amazon postulated that it's exactly designed to be like that, yet their design approach is a failure.
    They did? You got a link?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    They deliberately turned this into yet another themepark MMORPG, but forgot to add content.
    They literally didn't, and your extensive complaints about how it's not a traditional theme park MMO should speak to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    They deliberately turned it from a promising PvP-MMORPG
    It was not, the whole reason they changed direction was because early feedback was terrible and the general internet feedback was that folks didn't want a PvP focused MMO like they designed.

    Which isn't surprising when you look at what's going on with PvP MMO's like Crowfall, which is sadly struggling to pick up/retain players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    into yet another lame PvE-MMORPG without content.
    No, a hybrid that's not purely focused on either PvP or PvE. Consequently neither section of the game may shine super bright individually (I can't speak to PvP or the 'endgame' PvE content specifically), because they're intended to be paired together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    That's how this game was marketed as well. So, is the problem on my side or is the problem AGS's vision for the game vs. how the game actually turned out to be?


    Launch trailer shows harvesting (yep!), some magic and monsters (yep!), some PvE/dungeon content (Yep!), and PvP content (Yep!). They're not trying to pretend this is some huge PvE theme park MMO.

  15. #2375
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Those are raids. Traditionally those are raiding zones. What you mean is they do not have instanced, structured raiding. Which is a design choice. They don't have to ever add that or do as some other game did.

    There are 3 end-game dungeons.
    There are two level 60 and one level 55 dungeon. I'll give you that, three endgame dungeons. And yes, what I mean is structured raiding indeed. As I said, in New World there is not even the option to create groups of more than 5 players. I find it hard to call grinding elite zones in 5-player-groups "raiding".
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  16. #2376
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    There are two level 60 and one level 55 dungeon. I'll give you that, three endgame dungeons. And yes, what I mean is structured raiding indeed. As I said, in New World there is not even the option to create groups of more than 5 players. I find it hard to call grinding elite zones in 5-player-groups "raiding".
    That's just your point of view on raiding. Nothing wrong with that; the design of NW is not in line with your view is all.

    Personally, I spent far more time raiding in the style of NW than in the structured instance style of raid. The MMOs I played the most were the original EQ, FF11, Guild Wars, etc.

    I was never into World of Warcraft and only played a limited amount of raiding by comparison in games that followed the limited linear design and instanced structured raids of post-WOW MMOs.

    Again, this IS raiding in NW. It's just different.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2021-10-12 at 08:25 PM.

  17. #2377
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They literally didn't, and your extensive complaints about how it's not a traditional theme park MMO should speak to that.
    But it is a traditional themepark MMORPG, at least it strives to be. A traditional themepark that's just lacking content and variety.

    - Main "story" that guides you through the game (half-assed as you have to grind several levels to continue the main story, this happens after level 30 and keeps happening until max level)

    - Expeditions (aka dungeons) added very late in the development process

    - Abundance of loot from enemies

    - No death penalty anymore

    - PvP not an integral part of the game anymore

    - Turn towards the classical holy trinity in (PvE) combat

    - Rinse and repeat, copy and paste quests everywhere (most quests didn't exist early last year)

    (just to name a few things)

    Everything that made this game special in the beginning was removed or so much watered down that it doesn't really matter anymore. All of this just to generate yet another themepark MMORPG. That's not an issue per se, it's just an issue when you're unable to deliver - and that's exactly the problem of New World, it simply doesn't deliver, especially for the PvE crowd.

    I'd love to link you the producer letters from early last year before they delayed the game for an entire year, but they deleted all of them: https://twitter.com/playnewworld/sta...904577?lang=de results in an error message, like most of their letters / interviews from last year.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2021-10-12 at 08:28 PM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  18. #2378
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    I still think Star Wars Galaxies was one of the best MMOs for its time. it wasn't without its flaws, but the customization was incredible.

    Its unfortunate they butchered it with CU/NGE. I'd still love to see a decent MMO based around their system.

    That said, NW is starting to look more and more like a pass for me.
    Still look back on my Master Doctor/TKA character with fondness.

    New World i think has a few big flaws that means the game won't have leggs for me. They need to add fast travel to portals/towns from any where asap and make it cheaper. It can cost 300 odd to jump just one zone over if your bags are full.

    The quests are all pretty much horrible. They are like the old Classic WoW quest when you have to go into a cave and kill 10 yetis and you run back and you get a quest to go back to the same cave and get 10 yeti fun and then you run back and have to got into the same cave to kill the yeti boss.

    Storage. Holy shit. My bank is full ,well my banks are full. I have to keep all my cooking stuff in one town and all my wood stuff in another town and everything else in another town. You have to hoover up everything. Pick every herb. Mine every node. Skin every kill. The way i play just now is drop everything off in the bank and run to do some quests. By the time i run to and from quests i am full again. I have to make some random bullshit to skill up just so i have some room. I can't make chests yet and they cost 2kish on my realm. I don't have that thanks to blowing it all on a house.

    I am only level 36 just now and still enjoy it thur far but i know i can't be arsed to mine iron to make steel to make starmetal to make what ever is after that. Defo still enjoying the trip to max level still but i can feel it in my bones that i prolly will tap out shortly after for a while.

  19. #2379
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    But it is a traditional themepark MMORPG, at least it strives to be. A traditional themepark that's just lacking content and variety.

    - Main "story" that guides you through the game (half-assed as you have to grind several levels to continue the main story, this happens after level 30 and keeps happening until max level)

    - Expeditions (aka dungeons) added very late in the development process

    - Abundance of loot from enemies

    - No death penalty anymore

    - PvP not an integral part of the game anymore

    - Turn towards the classical holy trinity in (PvE) combat

    - Rinse and repeat, copy and paste quests everywhere (most quests didn't exist early last year)

    (just to name a few things)
    Some of this is neither exclusionary nor exclusive to either them park or Grand style MMORPGs. This is a pretty arbitrary list of things, frankly.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2021-10-12 at 08:34 PM.

  20. #2380
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    There are two level 60 and one level 55 dungeon. I'll give you that, three endgame dungeons. And yes, what I mean is structured raiding indeed. As I said, in New World there is not even the option to create groups of more than 5 players. I find it hard to call grinding elite zones in 5-player-groups "raiding".
    Lol world bosses in shadowlands have to be called "raiding" then.. xD

    The only challenge of world bosses in WoW now is struggling to get more than 1 FPS.

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