1. #2601
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Oh come on already. This is a fantasy MMORPG - we dont need to have realism when it comes to swimming with lots of stuff in inventory. If thats the reasoning, alot of other things should change ASAP in NW to be real.

    Its just plain weird seeing someone fall down a bridge into water and gotta run only to drown.
    You can't even swim when you are naked and have nothing in your bags so there's that.
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  2. #2602
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    There is no right or wrong way to do this. That's the point. There might be popular and unpopular ways of doing things, but popularity cannot make something right or wrong/ correct or incorrect.
    Your are correct, popular doesn't make it right, but in general things become popular because they are more appealing to the mass consumer. So for this example its clear in popular mythology of pretty much any sort of magic spells come from hands or staves/wands. It doesn't matter the type of mythology, whether its computer games, harry potter, classics, it's become synonymous.

    So for amazon to not take this approach means one of two things...

    Either they couldn't do it from a technical standpoint without spending too much time or money (highly likely) or they chose not to do it. And if they chose not to do it then why are they making decisions that clearly go against what 99% of the playerbase would want. It seems like a really odd way to run a game.

  3. #2603
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You can't even swim when you are naked and have nothing in your bags so there's that.
    Haha yeah that makes it just even more weird. Here we are - adventures that travel on a big ship, but cant swim. With or without equipment on.

  4. #2604
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    could you swim in a full set of armor with 1000kg of stuff in your bag, swimming is no big deal since it doesnt do anything.
    You also couldn't jump with that much stuff in your bag...or you know, stand up. Or have a bag big enough to put that much weight in.

    It's just a design choice they made, simple as that. Likely saved them a bit of time/money on swim animations and getting that system working, and since the world is designed around not swimming it's not a limiting decision.

  5. #2605
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Oh come on already. This is a fantasy MMORPG - we dont need to have realism when it comes to swimming with lots of stuff in inventory. If thats the reasoning, alot of other things should change ASAP in NW to be real.

    Its just plain weird seeing someone fall down a bridge into water and gotta run only to drown.
    Swimming is not required, its much more essential we get more content than a character animation, some things are just more important for a game. If you dont want long travel times after dying remember and use your camp otherwise you can use drowning for free death travel.
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  6. #2606
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Swimming is not required, its much more essential we get more content than a character animation, some things are just more important for a game. If you dont want long travel times after dying remember and use your camp otherwise you can use drowning for free death travel.
    To be fair though there are a lot of "water crossings" that the developers could have actively made shallow enough to cross. A lot are but some go deep for no design reason other then to make people drown. It isn't as noticeable unless you travel a lot in a zone like Weavers Fen that has a lot of water. The amusing part is how you can start to drown collecting water (or skinning near water).

    There are also the times where you fight near water but have your skills limited (and can't open inventory) because you are "in shallow water". There are a lot of active decisions by the developers regarding water where swimming or other things should have been added in my opinion.
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  7. #2607
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    To be fair though there are a lot of "water crossings" that the developers could have actively made shallow enough to cross. A lot are but some go deep for no design reason other then to make people drown. It isn't as noticeable unless you travel a lot in a zone like Weavers Fen that has a lot of water. The amusing part is how you can start to drown collecting water (or skinning near water).

    There are also the times where you fight near water but have your skills limited (and can't open inventory) because you are "in shallow water". There are a lot of active decisions by the developers regarding water where swimming or other things should have been added in my opinion.
    They had other things to focus on than adding in swimming, they spent a whole year mostly on adding in new gameplay so they didnt really have time to add in a pretty pointless system for the character that would not really change anything, an MMO cant have everything in it at launch.
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  8. #2608
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A lot are but some go deep for no design reason other then to make people drown.
    As if they're designed to be intentional barriers you're not supposed to cross.

  9. #2609
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Haha yeah that makes it just even more weird. Here we are - adventures that travel on a big ship, but cant swim. With or without equipment on.
    The weird part isn't that we can't swim, it's that we can't float, there's no buoyancy at all.. You just slowly walk on the ocean floor and slowly drowned. It's bizarre.

    But as Edge said, it's purposely designed that way to be a barrier, but the way it plays out...with a human walking along the sea floor like we're made of rocks, or like Link wearing the Iron boots or something, to then drowned, is just weird.

  10. #2610
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    But as Edge said, it's purposely designed that way to be a barrier, but the way it plays out...with a human walking along the sea floor like we're made of rocks, or like Link wearing the Iron boots or something, to then drowned, is just weird.
    Every time I need to cross a stream I get , "My people need me, I must go." stuck in my head.

    I totally get the criticism, it's weird as hell. But it's also unintentionally hilarious.

  11. #2611
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    They had other things to focus on than adding in swimming, they spent a whole year mostly on adding in new gameplay so they didnt really have time to add in a pretty pointless system for the character that would not really change anything, an MMO cant have everything in it at launch.
    Right. They still had to intentionally design some of the water areas deep enough to drown and limit skills and abilities when in "shallow" water. Even though you fight crocodiles near shallow water often. It is just silly to say "well they couldn't do better here because the rest of the game is terrible". Something are lower priority but bad design is bad design.
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  12. #2612
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Right. They still had to intentionally design some of the water areas deep enough to drown and limit skills and abilities when in "shallow" water. Even though you fight crocodiles near shallow water often. It is just silly to say "well they couldn't do better here because the rest of the game is terrible". Something are lower priority but bad design is bad design.
    How is it bad design if they wanted to use water as a barrier/no-action zone? I mean the expectation is that we can swim in it etc., but it's hardly uncommon for water to have literal invisible walls preventing the player from interacting with it at all.

    It's really not very difficult to pull and fight crocs on dry ground, and you seem to fight them pretty infrequently overall. So it's a very minor issue at worst.

  13. #2613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    How is it bad design if they wanted to use water as a barrier/no-action zone? I mean the expectation is that we can swim in it etc., but it's hardly uncommon for water to have literal invisible walls preventing the player from interacting with it at all.
    Because of how often you interact with it. Pulling crocs away from water still doesn't change the fact that they often put them right near the "no-go" zone for abilities and dodging. Or that animals you "hunt" (bison, elk, etc) will run across the to deep water and can even die over it. The barrier is only on the players and some times doesn't even make sense given the rest of the area.
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  14. #2614
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    How is it bad design if they wanted to use water as a barrier/no-action zone? I mean the expectation is that we can swim in it etc., but it's hardly uncommon for water to have literal invisible walls preventing the player from interacting with it at all.
    It just doesn't work in the context of this game. Particularly when you get to swampy areas, it's really obnoxious to constantly have your character forget how to swing their weapon because their shins are wet. I would actually rate their handling of water in my top tier of game issues, because it actively detracts from the gameplay loop. If they wanted to use it as a limit they should have made you swim slowly with a stamina bar like other open world games have done successfully for the last 20 years and made sure it doesn't deactivate your skills until the waterline is above your center of gravity.
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  15. #2615
    i really don't get all the complaining about no swimming. rarerly do you ever spend more than a few seconds in water while traversing but somehow people act like this is Water World where no swimming would be a real issue.

    it's not really that hard to see where shallow or deep water is and move accordingly.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  16. #2616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    it's not really that hard to see where shallow or deep water is and move accordingly.
    Really? Is there a way to tell that I am missing? The only way I've found to tell is once the camera goes below the water surface and you can then see how deep it is. You can't judge it from the surface. I'm playing with whatever default graphics settings the game picked so maybe it works better with better graphics?
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  17. #2617
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Really? Is there a way to tell that I am missing? The only way I've found to tell is once the camera goes below the water surface and you can then see how deep it is. You can't judge it from the surface. I'm playing with whatever default graphics settings the game picked so maybe it works better with better graphics?
    yes it is visible. but yeah maybe if you're playing on a suboptimal setting and a small screen it may not be?
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  18. #2618
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    could you swim in a full set of armor with 1000kg of stuff in your bag, swimming is no big deal since it doesnt do anything.
    Ah okay, so it's better to let us walk underwater like it's no big deal at all? These excuses are funny, honestly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You can't even swim when you are naked and have nothing in your bags so there's that.
    I mean the reasoning to justify no swimming was as silly as it can be in a fantasy MMORPG.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    But as Edge said, it's purposely designed that way to be a barrier, but the way it plays out...with a human walking along the sea floor like we're made of rocks, or like Link wearing the Iron boots or something, to then drowned, is just weird.
    Elder Scrolls Online actually has this exact same barrier, but we're still able to swim there. But if we swim too far, we're killed by piranhas. Pretty bad way of handling this as well, but at least we can swim.
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  19. #2619
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    To be fair though there are a lot of "water crossings" that the developers could have actively made shallow enough to cross. A lot are but some go deep for no design reason other then to make people drown. It isn't as noticeable unless you travel a lot in a zone like Weavers Fen that has a lot of water. The amusing part is how you can start to drown collecting water (or skinning near water).

    There are also the times where you fight near water but have your skills limited (and can't open inventory) because you are "in shallow water". There are a lot of active decisions by the developers regarding water where swimming or other things should have been added in my opinion.
    This is intentional to those areas as I was told and by demonstrated design. The developers wanted certain areas to have "terrain" be a factor in combat or limiting your ability. Deepwater you are obviously supposed to drown in and is an intentional barrier. The times when deep water is supposed to limit traversal is the case usually there is a nearby path or POI the devs wanted to funnel you toward.

    For example, almost all of the Forts/Outposts are near water. And typically have shallows that are intended to present a "dangerous" crossing such as North and South of Monarch's castle, Reekwater's NE tip, or the crossover to Restless Shore.

    I have seen PVP groups and portal running groups get caught out here and it's intended to be so. If you look at the bric-a-brac around these areas; there is often something for you to caught on too; abandoned rowboats, sunken ships, reefs, etc.

    They do this with other types of topography besides the water such as in the Great Cleave, Ebon, and Morniungdale. Where cliffs, waterfalls, thick forests, elevation differences, and so on are supposed to make fighting in the open world a little more dangerous.

    I am not saying it is necessarily super effective in practice as in theory. However, the design indicates many areas are supposed to be interesting to fight over and not let you just swim from Monarch to Ebon and avoid what is normally a very dangerous crossing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    i really don't get all the complaining about no swimming. rarerly do you ever spend more than a few seconds in water while traversing but somehow people act like this is Water World where no swimming would be a real issue.

    it's not really that hard to see where shallow or deep water is and move accordingly.
    People get used to certain conventional mechanics. Like how some people just could not wrap their heads around the idea GW1 did not have jumping. Despite the design decisions of the game having no need for it at all.

    It's not bad people have these expectations either. I would in fact love to just swim and cut through a lot of bullshit in NW. The burden of travel, so to speak, is a big complaint I have with the game because it actively works against the design intent to "explore" and stumble upon things. But travel is a pain in the ass a lot of times in my opinion.

    That being said, the devs just did not see "swimming" as an action relevant or at least a priority to their game design. That's life.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Really? Is there a way to tell that I am missing? The only way I've found to tell is once the camera goes below the water surface and you can then see how deep it is. You can't judge it from the surface. I'm playing with whatever default graphics settings the game picked so maybe it works better with better graphics?
    It's marked differently on the map and has a different graphical look.

  20. #2620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    They do this with other types of topography besides the water such as in the Great Cleave, Ebon, and Morniungdale. Where cliffs, waterfalls, thick forests, elevation differences, and so on are supposed to make fighting in the open world a little more dangerous.
    Have you never received fall damage in the game? It is so low that it might as well not exist. Elevation does not make the game more dangerous at all. It just provides a small escape window in PvP and a large escape window in PvE since the AI uses pathing that doesn't allow it to just jump off after you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    It's marked differently on the map and has a different graphical look.
    Not every instance. The major routes are clearly marked but not every depth is indicated on the map with a difference.
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