1. #2621
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Using that reasoning nothing can be measured because everything is just our feelings about the entertainment product.
    Correct. There is no such thing as an object qualifier for the enjoyment of entertainment products.

  2. #2622
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Correct. There is no such thing as an object qualifier for the enjoyment of entertainment products.
    So if there is no such thing then giving subjective feedback is the only type of feedback to give. And yet you are saying that can't be given for some strange reason.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  3. #2623
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So if there is no such thing then giving subjective feedback is the only type of feedback to give. And yet you are saying that can't be given for some strange reason.
    I think it's less about giving subjective feedback and more about people always thinking they're giving OBJECTIVE feedback and thinking their opinion is "more correct" than someone else's that's tiresome.

  4. #2624
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    I think it's less about giving subjective feedback and more about people always thinking they're giving OBJECTIVE feedback and thinking their opinion is "more correct" than someone else's that's tiresome.
    People think that something being "subjective" means that there is literally no objective basis for anything regarding that item/product/whatever and that it's all opinions.

    In reality, most subjective things are compared not to themselves but to other things which fulfill the same role or genre.

    I can go down to the street right now and start randomly smacking away on trash cans and call it music.
    Then someone will come by and tell me that it's not music it's just smacking on trash cans and it sucks.
    In itself, I can call this "music" and be offended that "oh, but it's just, like, your opinion, dude" when someones calls it shit but in reality they are objectively correct.
    Smacking away randomly on trash cans hardly qualifies as music to anyone that's why it's not the top charter on spotify or whatever.

    This is of course an extreme example to demonstrate the point.

    While subjectively anything can be "good enough" or "good for X" it doesn't mean that it's objectively servicable compared to similar things.
    Especially when we are talking about a gaming genre that had many decades to evolve and refine its systems.

  5. #2625
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I should have known better that clunky, stiff and not connecting animations are there at the will of the developers and that they are a design choice and not a problem with the engine. Thanks for enlightening me. Can you please do the same with the underwater walking? I’d love to know why it’s better than swimming, I’m sure you’ll already have an answer prepped.
    could you swim in a full set of armor with 1000kg of stuff in your bag, swimming is no big deal since it doesnt do anything.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  6. #2626
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So if there is no such thing then giving subjective feedback is the only type of feedback to give.
    Correct, subjective feedback is the only kind of feedback one can give here.

    And yet you are saying that can't be given for some strange reason.
    "It's fine to think or feel combat is "clunky", and I do personally think combat is "bad", but that is not a measurable quota."


    I literally have just said this above. I gave my own subjective views on the game in the very same post.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    These are all just subjective, there is nothing objectively wrong with goats or cinnamon's rarity, of course.
    Absolutely. That is why I have included my thoughts on the game in that post. To demonstrate how I feel about their design choices- that is how I opened the post. On purpose.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    Smacking away randomly on trash cans hardly qualifies as music to anyone that's why it's not the top charter on spotify or whatever.
    There are artists who make music just like this fwiw.

    I saw a concert once where an artist named Masimo played by knocking over objects from a table at random. It was a packed house. Standing room only.

  7. #2627
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    These are all just subjective, there is nothing objectively wrong with goats or cinnamon's rarity, of course.
    Nah. Cooking is an objectively bad design. Common and medium rarity ingredients. Then super rare ingredients that almost anything beyond basic needs. Some you can't even gather in the wild but need chests to get. Some of the design is to create "trade routes" between zones that have them but there are just to many ingredients for cooking that exist just to create scarcity.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #2628
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    People think that something being "subjective" means that there is literally no objective basis for anything regarding that item/product/whatever and that it's all opinions.
    That's literally the difference between subjective and objective. Besides that, very few of the arguments being made here are citing comparisons. Ergo: people need to stop acting like they're "more correct" and start saying "well fine, I just don't like it, NYAAAAAAAH!"
    In itself, I can call this "music" and be offended that "oh, but it's just, like, your opinion, dude" when someones calls it shit but in reality they are objectively correct.
    No, they aren't, and that's the point. Get over it. Is it POSSIBLE that someone thinks that trashcan banging is the best thing they've ever heard? Even theoretically if not actually? If the answer is yes, your whole "objectively" argument fucking falls apart. Not that there's anything wrong that you don't have objectivity on your side, just get over it and stop using that as a crutch to try and give your opinion a leg up.
    While subjectively anything can be "good enough" or "good for X" it doesn't mean that it's objectively servicable compared to similar things.
    What someone would find serviceable is, again, entirely subjective...

    Again, this is actually an either-or kinda topic. Either something has one truth all things are beholden to whether they know it or not, whether they agree or not (i.e. gravity and however that functions, regardless of our understanding of it) OR it is entirely and wholly subjective and you can't say the things you're saying.

    "But then we can't talk about ANYTHING!" Is the typical expected retort. You don't need to have some high-ground to stand on to feel your point is superior for things to matter. You don't need objectivity to argue value or even argue at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Yes, but some things are pretty objective.
    This is an all or nothing kinda thing (objectivity I mean).

    If you wind up a spell and there's clearly an animation with the characters weapon or hand aiming, but the projectile comes out of your stomach, that's not intended.
    It could entirely be intended. It could just be intended because the developers didn't want to spend the extra hour to position things dynamically to different locations and instead wanted to copy+paste code as much as possible. It's also entire possible for someone to literally not give a shit about animations at all or origin points of spells.

    But some things really can just be wrong or broken or buggy.
    Now this I 100% agree with. However judging how much it MATTERS that something is broken or buggy or whatever is far more difficult.

    New world definitely seems like it has its fair share of bugs and/or not-so-hot gameplay to me.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2021-10-18 at 03:36 AM.

  9. #2629
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    could you swim in a full set of armor with 1000kg of stuff in your bag, swimming is no big deal since it doesnt do anything.
    One could expect in a AAA game to have functional swimming. If not, then don't implement water or make in un-reachable. Watching some dude falling into the water, to walk at the bottom of it as if he was on land, then slowly drowning was the most pitiful thing I've ever watched in a videogame.

    Your argument is weird here, "swimming is no big deal since it doesn't do anything". Does that mean that'd be acceptable if Amazon didn't implement any movement when walking ? That doesn't do anything anyway, it's just a translation of the player's model.

  10. #2630
    by having the pvp enabled i get the same vibes as i had when i was firstly playing wow 16 years ago, pvping everywhere to break the monotonous lvling process, so much fun! Aside from that i really like that you can lvl up all professions, i was never ever the guy that likes professions but as i get older i like doing those more and more. I am hopeful about NW's potential, i think this is a game i can enjoy because i really like its core gameplay.

  11. #2631
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Well..."It's technically intended because I just didn't feel like doing it right." doesn't really make it any more correct.
    The point is: just because you think it's less cool to have a spell coming out of thin air from the middle of someone's body doesn't make the "correct" way to have it come out of someone's hand. Games are under no obligation to adhere to your preconceived notions or the way the world actually works.

    Didn't feel like doing it one way != "didn't feel like doing it right."

    There is no right or wrong way to do this. That's the point. There might be popular and unpopular ways of doing things, but popularity cannot make something right or wrong/ correct or incorrect.

  12. #2632
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    could you swim in a full set of armor with 1000kg of stuff in your bag, swimming is no big deal since it doesnt do anything.
    Oh come on already. This is a fantasy MMORPG - we dont need to have realism when it comes to swimming with lots of stuff in inventory. If thats the reasoning, alot of other things should change ASAP in NW to be real.

    Its just plain weird seeing someone fall down a bridge into water and gotta run only to drown.

  13. #2633
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Oh come on already. This is a fantasy MMORPG - we dont need to have realism when it comes to swimming with lots of stuff in inventory. If thats the reasoning, alot of other things should change ASAP in NW to be real.

    Its just plain weird seeing someone fall down a bridge into water and gotta run only to drown.
    You can't even swim when you are naked and have nothing in your bags so there's that.
    Ship has been abandoned.
    ---

    NextUI for XIV


  14. #2634
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    There is no right or wrong way to do this. That's the point. There might be popular and unpopular ways of doing things, but popularity cannot make something right or wrong/ correct or incorrect.
    Your are correct, popular doesn't make it right, but in general things become popular because they are more appealing to the mass consumer. So for this example its clear in popular mythology of pretty much any sort of magic spells come from hands or staves/wands. It doesn't matter the type of mythology, whether its computer games, harry potter, classics, it's become synonymous.

    So for amazon to not take this approach means one of two things...

    Either they couldn't do it from a technical standpoint without spending too much time or money (highly likely) or they chose not to do it. And if they chose not to do it then why are they making decisions that clearly go against what 99% of the playerbase would want. It seems like a really odd way to run a game.

  15. #2635
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You can't even swim when you are naked and have nothing in your bags so there's that.
    Haha yeah that makes it just even more weird. Here we are - adventures that travel on a big ship, but cant swim. With or without equipment on.

  16. #2636
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    could you swim in a full set of armor with 1000kg of stuff in your bag, swimming is no big deal since it doesnt do anything.
    You also couldn't jump with that much stuff in your bag...or you know, stand up. Or have a bag big enough to put that much weight in.

    It's just a design choice they made, simple as that. Likely saved them a bit of time/money on swim animations and getting that system working, and since the world is designed around not swimming it's not a limiting decision.

  17. #2637
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Oh come on already. This is a fantasy MMORPG - we dont need to have realism when it comes to swimming with lots of stuff in inventory. If thats the reasoning, alot of other things should change ASAP in NW to be real.

    Its just plain weird seeing someone fall down a bridge into water and gotta run only to drown.
    Swimming is not required, its much more essential we get more content than a character animation, some things are just more important for a game. If you dont want long travel times after dying remember and use your camp otherwise you can use drowning for free death travel.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  18. #2638
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Swimming is not required, its much more essential we get more content than a character animation, some things are just more important for a game. If you dont want long travel times after dying remember and use your camp otherwise you can use drowning for free death travel.
    To be fair though there are a lot of "water crossings" that the developers could have actively made shallow enough to cross. A lot are but some go deep for no design reason other then to make people drown. It isn't as noticeable unless you travel a lot in a zone like Weavers Fen that has a lot of water. The amusing part is how you can start to drown collecting water (or skinning near water).

    There are also the times where you fight near water but have your skills limited (and can't open inventory) because you are "in shallow water". There are a lot of active decisions by the developers regarding water where swimming or other things should have been added in my opinion.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #2639
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    To be fair though there are a lot of "water crossings" that the developers could have actively made shallow enough to cross. A lot are but some go deep for no design reason other then to make people drown. It isn't as noticeable unless you travel a lot in a zone like Weavers Fen that has a lot of water. The amusing part is how you can start to drown collecting water (or skinning near water).

    There are also the times where you fight near water but have your skills limited (and can't open inventory) because you are "in shallow water". There are a lot of active decisions by the developers regarding water where swimming or other things should have been added in my opinion.
    They had other things to focus on than adding in swimming, they spent a whole year mostly on adding in new gameplay so they didnt really have time to add in a pretty pointless system for the character that would not really change anything, an MMO cant have everything in it at launch.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  20. #2640
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A lot are but some go deep for no design reason other then to make people drown.
    As if they're designed to be intentional barriers you're not supposed to cross.

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