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  1. #321
    *Bezo's cackles methodically* ..oh man, that is the last person I wanted to support. He added $70bn to his net worth during the coronavirus pandemic in 2020. Let's not talk about how small businesses fared. . .

    This is why I was an avid supporter of Ashes of Creation before anything for any new MMO. The reality is it will not happen. I predict this one will be launched before Ashes. I'm already getting the push to go try this one out when it releases. I bet a lot of the MMO audience will be in this boat, as they are starved for content. The only interesting thing (for me) I seen about this game is a 50 vs 50 mode. The positive I am trying to look on is the people who actually created this MMO and the content they deliver. (workers) Which I have been whining at Blizzard about for months. (No new Wintergrasp, Tol barad, Ashran, lesser extent Warfronts as they were never PVP but definitely MMO scale content. For Shadowlands..)
    Last edited by Kixxenn; 2021-05-02 at 09:57 PM.

  2. #322
    I didn't enjoyed my limited preview. There are quite a few things I didn't liked about this game.

    • Forced PVP
    • No Dungeons
    • No Raids
    • Extremely clumsy combat.

    This game needs to grow in order to be successful. We will just have to wait and see how it shakes out.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by neik View Post
    I didn't enjoyed my limited preview. There are quite a few things I didn't liked about this game.

    • Forced PVP
    • No Dungeons
    • No Raids
    • Extremely clumsy combat.

    This game needs to grow in order to be successful. We will just have to wait and see how it shakes out.
    Well
    they removed forced pvp
    added dungeons (up to like 5 now)
    no real raid content
    combat improvements have been happening quite a lot, as well as new weapons.
    World of Warcraft: Shadowblands
    Diablo Bore.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    And I've never found it to make the game any better for it. Yeah it feels good to wreck shit action style for a little bit, but so much depth is lost in every case I've seen so far. I find action style combat incredibly shallow in other MMOs. Maybe I just haven't seen a good one yet, it's entirely possible, but I don't believe action style combat is any better than tab targetting.

    Coincidentally (or maybe not), the 2 most played MMORPGs both use tab targetting style of combat.
    tapping 1, 2, 3, 4 over and over in tab targeting isn't any better to me.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Forteofgray View Post
    tapping 1, 2, 3, 4 over and over in tab targeting isn't any better to me.
    As opposed to tapping 1, 2, 3, 4 in action games? The point I was making is that tab targeting allows more control for both players and the designers. In action style, everything is either aoe, or really shit to use.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    As opposed to tapping 1, 2, 3, 4 in action games? The point I was making is that tab targeting allows more control for both players and the designers. In action style, everything is either aoe, or really shit to use.
    yeah I said in tab targeting it's basically the same feeling for me, not any better. this is called an opinion.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Forteofgray View Post
    yeah I said in tab targeting it's basically the same feeling for me, not any better. this is called an opinion.
    Don't get me wrong, I understand that to an extent they can feel the same, but devil is in the details. It's not about better or worse, it's about which one can keep players engaged for longer and provide more depth in an MMO, which imo is clearly tab targetting, which I think must be apparent to anyone who played something like BDO and WoW both.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    As opposed to tapping 1, 2, 3, 4 in action games? The point I was making is that tab targeting allows more control for both players and the designers. In action style, everything is either aoe, or really shit to use.
    The combat in new world is a little different to other action rpgs, your not going to be pulling huge amounts of mobs and burning them down fast, your mainly handling a few mobs at most at a time and only a few weapon skill lines deal with aoe abilities, your able to block and dodge attacks depending on stamina so the combat is more skill based, tab targetting is kinda lazy gameplay design at this point and gets boring since its been used for decades now.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The combat in new world is a little different to other action rpgs, your not going to be pulling huge amounts of mobs and burning them down fast, your mainly handling a few mobs at most at a time and only a few weapon skill lines deal with aoe abilities, your able to block and dodge attacks depending on stamina so the combat is more skill based, tab targetting is kinda lazy gameplay design at this point and gets boring since its been used for decades now.
    Which imo limits the potential designs of the game. So they added dungeons now, what happens when everyone has gear / skill? Obviously, only the AoE weapons will be meta then, otherwise the designers are limiting themselves to making every dungeon the same with mobs that have to be fought on their own or bosses only. Or in PvP, even in something like a 4v4 situation, it gets really frustrating to make sure your abilities actually hit the targets you want them to without everything being area of effect.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Which imo limits the potential designs of the game. So they added dungeons now, what happens when everyone has gear / skill? Obviously, only the AoE weapons will be meta then, otherwise the designers are limiting themselves to making every dungeon the same with mobs that have to be fought on their own or bosses only. Or in PvP, even in something like a 4v4 situation, it gets really frustrating to make sure your abilities actually hit the targets you want them to without everything being area of effect.
    Have you played Tera? Because like, they managed to figure it out overall, and we can quibble over balance if we want. Giving attacks opportunity costs puts more focus on the player's skill, rewarding them for smarter positioning and skill use based on the enemy they're fighting.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Have you played Tera? Because like, they managed to figure it out overall, and we can quibble over balance if we want. Giving attacks opportunity costs puts more focus on the player's skill, rewarding them for smarter positioning and skill use based on the enemy they're fighting.
    I haven't, I just watched some videos and I would honestly probably have to play it for a bit to see how it feels. There are obviously things you can do to design around it, e.g. limit ranged targetted skills to absolute minimum, force everyone to be melee-ish range, etc.. but as I said, limiting design is not a great starting point for a RPG of any kind.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    I haven't, I just watched some videos and I would honestly probably have to play it for a bit to see how it feels. There are obviously things you can do to design around it, e.g. limit ranged targetted skills to absolute minimum, force everyone to be melee-ish range, etc.. but as I said, limiting design is not a great starting point for a RPG of any kind.
    Except that action combat doesn't limit design at all, and it opens up quite a few unique avenues for gameplay.

    Melee AoE cleaves? Well, in tab target they're either things you just eat if you're in range, or they're things you run out of visible AoE's for. Not really much "gameplay" there.

    Melee AoE cleaves in action combat? Telegraphed abilities that can vary, forces melee to either manually run away (DPS loss), eat it (generally bad idea), or play smart and use one of their attacks to move them out of the AoE while dealing damage to the boss.

    Ranged attacks on casters? Don't worry, they've got movement skills too so they can dodge out quickly if the boss decides to charge across the arena towards them or shoot some shit at them.

    Seriously, it's not super populated and it's WAY easier now with super OP gear leveling up, but Tera is a solid example of how action combat can be done well in a MMO, and how you can have mechanically challenging and interesting fights. Some of the high end content that I never "played" (I cheated on dev builds so godmode ftw) is insanely difficult and requires that you pay a TON of attention to telegraphs and have very fast reaction times. And it's all still trinity based, so you're still rolling around with a tank that needs to be managing threat for the most part (not super mandatory, but extremely helpful) and a healer (again, not super mandatory but...well...you're gonna have to play pretty perfectly to get by without one).

  13. #333
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Have you played Tera? Because like, they managed to figure it out overall, and we can quibble over balance if we want. Giving attacks opportunity costs puts more focus on the player's skill, rewarding them for smarter positioning and skill use based on the enemy they're fighting.
    I wouldn't argue that Tera's combat is anything to write home about.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Which imo limits the potential designs of the game. So they added dungeons now, what happens when everyone has gear / skill? Obviously, only the AoE weapons will be meta then, otherwise the designers are limiting themselves to making every dungeon the same with mobs that have to be fought on their own or bosses only. Or in PvP, even in something like a 4v4 situation, it gets really frustrating to make sure your abilities actually hit the targets you want them to without everything being area of effect.
    From what i have already played the AoE spells dont do a great deal of dmg anyway and are a long time cd and i think its maybe mainly the fire staff and hammer than has some AoE effects, the abilities are also not instant and can be easily avoidable and interupted if you pay attention, time will tell on how the game plays on release but its not designed around pulling a ton of mobs and burning them down as skills cant just be spammed.

    The combat in new world is slower paced.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-05-03 at 08:58 PM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanmahaffe View Post
    Well
    they removed forced pvp
    added dungeons (up to like 5 now)
    no real raid content
    combat improvements have been happening quite a lot, as well as new weapons.
    Thanks for taking your time to clarify this to me.

  16. #336
    The Lightbringer Strawberry's Avatar
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    Amazon responded to cash shop concerns

    "We are aware that there are concerns around the storefront testing we are currently doing in Alpha. To be clear, at launch all of the items in the shop will be focused on cosmetics, and there will be no boosts of any type for sale. We will share more on our vision for MTX in the near future."
    Oh i see through your bullshit.

    To be clear, at launch all of the items

  17. #337
    I was showing some interest for this game. Not much, but still some. Now its down the drain. Its already gone to DOA box.

    When I look back at which games I have played most and liked in recent years, its always the ones that doesn't have shitton of mtx in them.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Amazon responded to cash shop concerns

    Oh i see through your bullshit.
    I feel like I'm the only one not like, morally and righteously pissed off about this?

    Seen plenty of anger over the cash shop alone which like, should have been super obvious it was coming given that it was a B2P game. As for boosts, meh. Every MMO sells boosts of some sort nowadays, even WoW. As longa s it doesn't impact PvP power, that's a big 'ol "meh" from me as an abstract concept.

    We haven't even seen the bloody thing yet so we don't even know what kinds of cosmetics they're selling or what kinda prices they're thinking of.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I feel like I'm the only one not like, morally and righteously pissed off about this?

    Seen plenty of anger over the cash shop alone which like, should have been super obvious it was coming given that it was a B2P game. As for boosts, meh. Every MMO sells boosts of some sort nowadays, even WoW. As longa s it doesn't impact PvP power, that's a big 'ol "meh" from me as an abstract concept.

    We haven't even seen the bloody thing yet so we don't even know what kinds of cosmetics they're selling or what kinda prices they're thinking of.
    You're not the only one, it was obvious that game is supposed to somehow make money after initial sales and nothing they've presented so far was different from what other games (even with subs and paid expansions) have.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  20. #340
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I feel like I'm the only one not like, morally and righteously pissed off about this?

    Seen plenty of anger over the cash shop alone which like, should have been super obvious it was coming given that it was a B2P game. As for boosts, meh. Every MMO sells boosts of some sort nowadays, even WoW. As longa s it doesn't impact PvP power, that's a big 'ol "meh" from me as an abstract concept.

    We haven't even seen the bloody thing yet so we don't even know what kinds of cosmetics they're selling or what kinda prices they're thinking of.
    Some credit should be given because you need to in my opinion also look at the overall design philosophy behind the game, that being they were willing to redo entire parts and strip entire parts because it didn't meet the expectations of players. That tells me they are willing to do drastic things to make this game a viable contender in the online gaming world.

    I don't think they would do something as controversial as selling "power" in the store, maybe later when the game has found its roots. That's not something i will write off but at launch i don't believe so.

    To me Amazon wants this to be a success and they want it rather badly i would think after other failed projects, if that's the case Amazon's pockets are rather deep so could worry less about returns on their project in the first year(s) and more about getting plenty of people in their game, although this is very much speculation and they couldn't care nearly as much.
    “My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.
    ― Anthony Hopkins

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